Attention Core Gamers

[Fallax]

SCE? They make the vast majority of the best games on Playstation... lol.

The real question is... what is SCE not making for Playstation? Hahaha.

What did they announce at this E3 that they made? I know they make games (hell, so does microsoft) but what did they announce at this e3?

[curryking1]

Announce that was new or just present new/old? They didn't announce much new stuff haha.

I was just pointing out that... SCE's first party is relatively large. They have a bunch of high profile developers under the SCEWW umbrella.

[AC!D]

For me the problem is they have not invested in any new core franchises this gen like MS and Sony. Its always Mario, Metroid and Zelda. You can call Wii sports, Play, Music and fit new titles but honestly can you really consider that immersion? Wii sports is fun and even better with friends but games have become more than just fun for most of us. They tell a story and the best developers like Kojima, Bioware and Ueda elicit emotions out of us.

Is it really so hard to make a game that doesnt have to have Marios face or name in the title? Dont get me wrong i love the core Galaxy games but they really are overdoing it now with the rest of the shovelware. Nintendo have billions right so why not invest in a proper Resident Evil game than allow Capcom to release such garbage like Umbrella Chronicles or Square who made the worst Dragon quest and FF games ive ever seen on a console using motion controls? Let them splash the cash with square or Capcom and make a proper games like they did with Resi 4. Get Kojima to make them a castlevania game. Ninja Gaiden on Wii. Third parties dont want to bring their bigger franchises to Wii so instead create new titles called Red Steel instead of a Far Cry game with significant investment from Nintendo or they can buy some new studios as Viper suggested like High Voltage.

Then we get to third parties who you are never sure will deliver like square and Capcom. Ive seen the trailers for Red Steel, The conduit, Indiana Jones and Dead Space extraction but who knows if they will be any good at all. Honestly we will be lucky if one of those games are even good.

Third problem is the controller. They never should have made all the games needing mandatory motion control. I purchased the Wii classic controller and i have not been able to use it once. The Wii motion controller is great but for some games its just not right. I played. Fighting games just feel terrible. Soccer on Wii feels terrible. It also doesnt help when you have to buy a new peripheral to try out balance board games or Wii plus for Red Steel. Then you have to ask yourself....Ubisoft say Wii motion plus is essential but the Conduit devs say its not needed or included in their game so is the Conduit game not gonna play as smooth as Red Steel then? All these questions dont help someone like me who really is trying to enjoy Nintendo's offerings and havent really done so since i was a small boy but every few months it seems you have to buy some new bundled hardware game to feel like you are getting the best possible Nintendo experiene. Lets see how sly they are trying to convince us to buy this new pulse reader thing.

[Viper]

I didn't hear about Super Mario Galaxy 2, I must have missed it reading the transcript I was on because it gave me the impression it wasn't shown at all or even announced.

The only thing I was confused by was the R&D. I think whatever R&D Nintendo is doing now is probably for the next system at this point. But I am not the first person to ask about this by any means, I too am not a straight Nintendo fan.

SMG2 was shown near the end of the conference with a nice video with it. Whose transcript did you read?

I also learned today that Nintendo developed an entirely new handheld but scrapped it completely because the DSi launched so successfully. This is also not the first time they've created a new piece of hardware and scrapped it without anyone ever knowing about it.

Also, the R&D that went into Wii Motion plus was very extensive because of the nature of MEMS gyroscopes. They typically detect about 300 degrees of rotation per second but Nintendo wanted it to be more sensitive so they found a way to ramp it up to 1,600 degrees of rotation per second. This lead to the problem of it not being able to detect minor motion so they had to research a lot into that which led the damn thing to being so sensitive that it felt motion based on temperature change, pressure changes, humidity change and would register motion because of it.

They put a hell of a lot more effort and money into developing WM+ than I ever expected. Then to learn they built and scrapped a whole new handheld device.....you can get the idea they really do spend a lot on R&D even if we never see the results of it.

1. For me the problem is they have not invested in any new core franchises this gen like MS and Sony. Its always Mario, Metroid and Zelda.

2. Is it really so hard to make a game that doesnt have to have Marios face or name in the title? Dont get me wrong i love the core Galaxy games but they really are overdoing it now with the rest of the shovelware.


3. Ninja Gaiden on Wii.


4. Then we get to third parties who you are never sure will deliver like square and Capcom. Ive seen the trailers for Red Steel, The conduit, Indiana Jones and Dead Space extraction but who knows if they will be any good at all. Honestly we will be lucky if one of those games are even good.

5. Soccer on Wii feels terrible.

6. It also doesnt help when you have to buy a new peripheral to try out balance board games or Wii plus for Red Steel.

7.Then you have to ask yourself....Ubisoft say Wii motion plus is essential but the Conduit devs say its not needed or included in their game so is the Conduit game not gonna play as smooth as Red Steel then?

8. All these questions dont help someone like me who really is trying to enjoy Nintendo's offerings and havent really done so since i was a small boy but every few months it seems you have to buy some new bundled hardware game to feel like you are getting the best possible Nintendo experiene. Lets see how sly they are trying to convince us to buy this new pulse reader thing.

1. Dynamic Slash (AKA Dynamic Zan) wasn't shown but will be an IP you'll want to look into from Nintendo.
http://wii.ign.com/objects/142/14286512.html

Monado: Beginning of the World is a new JRPG published by Nintendo.
http://wii.ign.com/objects/143/14354769.html

Cosmic Walker is a new Nintendo published IP that...ok, we don't much about it yet but it's a new IP.
http://wii.ign.com/objects/142/14286510.html

Sin and Punishment 2 is coming. True it's a sequel but the original never left Japan.
http://wii.ign.com/objects/142/14286412.html


Don't forget they've got Disaster: Day of Crisis and Fatal Frame IV coming (some day...we hope...please....just fucking release them already). Project H.A.M.M.E.R. was canceled though I believe it's just being rebuilt into something else. Project Sora is yet to be unveiled but is supposed to be something huge.

2. When the games are quality and take years to develop, can you really call them shovelware? I think this term has become stretched beyond it's actual definition these days to include anything not targeted at the super hard core market.

3. Now known as Metroid: other M. Team Ninja is making the new Metroid game.

4. Can't that be said about every single game every prior to release?

5. Then why Pro Evo considered the best gameplay ever for a Soccer title? Did you play FIFA instead?

6. Red Steel is the only game that requires WM+ and it comes with WM+. Wii Fit is the only game that requires the Wii Balance Board and it comes with the Wii Balance Board. You can knock the system for having a lot of peripherals but the only games that absolutely require them also come bundled with the peripherals.

7. The conduit is a straight up FPS with just guns while Red Steel 2 has you switching between guns and swords on the fly. WM+ isn't required for IR controls so The Conduit doesn't need it. Red Steel 2 uses it for 1:1 sword control.

8. This is no different than the average person having to do research to get the most out of their PS3. The difference for you is you've already done that research and followed with it from day one.

One the same token, how is Sony going to convince people they need to buy a PS Eye and a Sony Motion Controller? Both will be required for any motion based games Sony releases. Will they be bundled with the games, sold separately, sold together, etc...? You asked similar questions about the Wii's peripherals yet Sony is getting into the same boat.

[curryking1]

SMG2 was shown near the end of the conference with a nice video with it. Whose transcript did you read?

I totally forgot... let's check my history hahaha. I think the justin.tv blog? I switched to the Eurogamer blog after. I dunno, whichever one I was reading at the time was doing a really poor job either way.

[Fallax]

Announce that was new or just present new/old? They didn't announce much new stuff haha.

I was just pointing out that... SCE's first party is relatively large. They have a bunch of high profile developers under the SCEWW umbrella.

Just general stuff announced at their conference. And I actually didn't know they had a large first party *shies away*.

For me the problem is they have not invested in any new core franchises this gen like MS and Sony. Its always Mario, Metroid and Zelda. You can call Wii sports, Play, Music and fit new titles but honestly can you really consider that immersion? Wii sports is fun and even better with friends but games have become more than just fun for most of us. They tell a story and the best developers like Kojima, Bioware and Ueda elicit emotions out of us.

Is it really so hard to make a game that doesnt have to have Marios face or name in the title? Dont get me wrong i love the core Galaxy games but they really are overdoing it now with the rest of the shovelware. Nintendo have billions right so why not invest in a proper Resident Evil game than allow Capcom to release such garbage like Umbrella Chronicles or Square who made the worst Dragon quest and FF games ive ever seen on a console using motion controls? Let them splash the cash with square or Capcom and make a proper games like they did with Resi 4. Get Kojima to make them a castlevania game. Ninja Gaiden on Wii. Third parties dont want to bring their bigger franchises to Wii so instead create new titles called Red Steel instead of a Far Cry game with significant investment from Nintendo or they can buy some new studios as Viper suggested like High Voltage.

Then we get to third parties who you are never sure will deliver like square and Capcom. Ive seen the trailers for Red Steel, The conduit, Indiana Jones and Dead Space extraction but who knows if they will be any good at all. Honestly we will be lucky if one of those games are even good.

Third problem is the controller. They never should have made all the games needing mandatory motion control. I purchased the Wii classic controller and i have not been able to use it once. The Wii motion controller is great but for some games its just not right. I played. Fighting games just feel terrible. Soccer on Wii feels terrible. It also doesnt help when you have to buy a new peripheral to try out balance board games or Wii plus for Red Steel. Then you have to ask yourself....Ubisoft say Wii motion plus is essential but the Conduit devs say its not needed or included in their game so is the Conduit game not gonna play as smooth as Red Steel then? All these questions dont help someone like me who really is trying to enjoy Nintendo's offerings and havent really done so since i was a small boy but every few months it seems you have to buy some new bundled hardware game to feel like you are getting the best possible Nintendo experiene. Lets see how sly they are trying to convince us to buy this new pulse reader thing.

What Core titles do you want them to focus on? We still have time, we really don't know what Retro is doing, nor do we know what Project Sora is doing, and we don't know what else Nintendo has up their sleeve. Nintendo doesn't control Capcom: and from what I hear, RE: Dark Chronicles isn't crap (however it's not great). And everyone says Red Steel 2 is amazing and that Deep Space is great too. Same with The Conduit.

Look, big great games take time to develop. Why do you think we don't usually have more then one Zelda every console cycle? Why there were only 2 Halo games on the Xbox. Nintendo is pumping out Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit Plus because, one it sells, two it's not as hard to do. That might seem like a cheap shot, and sound bad, but think about it. A big problem on Nintendo consoles is that no one can beat them. Their games sell the best, their games are amazing, and third parties don't like to compete with the godfather of video games (Shiggy, and just Nintendo in general). However, now that Nintendo is giving all these games to a new casual crowd -- other developers can now get a chance to shine. It's not their fault that Capcom hasn't brought a AAA RE title to the Wii. In fact, I'm pissed at them for not giving us a RE 5. RE 4 sold great on the Wii. It still is selling on the Wii. Sold great on the GCN. And now they give us these titles that are nothing like that? Come on Capcom, give us something good (although Spybots looks good).

Finally, Nintendo doesn't require developers to use the motion control. You can use the GCN or classic on games like Mario Kart Wii and Super Smash Bros. Brawl. But developers do want to use the motion control, because more times then not, it's a better way to go. Just feels natural (althouh I'll give it to ya -- most fighting games aren't home with the Wiimote -- but the two I have, you can use a classic or GCN controller, so I don't mind).

So there you go.

[BahnNZ]

I think the other consoles just have bigger games. These games we PS360 boys have, Assassin's Creed II, Final Fantasy 13, infamous, God of War 3, Uncharted 2 and the rest... Only word for it is big... Epic.. Stunning...

I like a bit of Mario Kart and Sin and Punishment fine, but these are small games. They may sell a lot, but epic? No... Where's the big, stunning epicness? Super Mario Galaxy is epic, I'm getting that, but these little tiny games from tiny studios...

Where's the video game bling? Deep Space is fine, but it's better on my Trey. Red Steel may be good this time around, but I wouldn't mention it in the same breath as an epic monster like Modern Warfare 2.

There is nothing in the Wii box that inhibits epicness, they're doing Assasin's Creed for PSP for gawds sake. So... Where is it? Where's your Kojima exclusive? Where's your Rockstar exclusive? Where's your 256 player game? could have heard a pin drop at that conference.

Again, what you boys doing with your money?

[Fallax]

I think the other consoles just have bigger games. These games we PS360 boys have, Assassin's Creed II, Final Fantasy 13, infamous, God of War 3, Alan Wake and the rest... Only word for it is big... Epic.. Stunning...

I like a bit of Mario Kart and Sin and Punishment fine, but these are small games. They may sell a lot, but epic? No... Where's the big, stunning epicness? Super Mario Galaxy is epic, I'm getting that, but these little tiny games from tiny studios...

Where's the video game bling? Deep Space is fine, but it's better on my Trey. Red Steel may be good this time around, but I wouldn't mention it in the same breath as an epic monster like Modern Warfare 2.

There is nothing in the Wii box that inhibits epicness, they're doing Assasin's Creed for PSP for gawds sake. So... Where is it?

Wait a second, none of these games are epic? Have you played Sins and Punishment 2? I haven't, so I wouldn't know if its "larger then life", or epic as you put it. However, I would put The Conduit against big titles like Perfect Dark Zero and even the original Halo (although until I test out the online play, I wont with Halo 2/3 -- I need to see the online action to believe it's greatness, as IGN is selling it). But the game looks massive and seems to have a cool, alien plot that reminds me of Perfect Dark and X-Files. And Red Steel 2 -- I have no idea if it will be epic, but it seems to be to be an amazing title and I wont judge it either way until I get my greedy hands on it.

And why is Assasin's Creed on on Wii? How can I know? How can anyone know? But I doubt the reason is, "Oh, the Wii? Yea, thats not an epic system. Sure, it might have games like Zelda and Metroid(s), and it might have huge amazing titles like The Conduit that displays the system is capable of doing massive games, on a grand scale with amazing graphics -- oh, and did we mention Grinder that details the possibility of 20+ characters all with a steady frame rate? Yea, Wii = not epic, despite all that."

Now I know I must seem "fanboyish" here, but really, unless you have been to E3 and played these games -- how can you say they aren't epic? I can't say a book is epic, until I read it (of course if it's an "epic poem" I can, but thats more of a genre then a discerption), so how is it you can tell a game is epic without playing it?

Now if you are saying it seems like it's not epic, I still would disagree. Final Fantasy, Sins and Punishment 2, Metroid: Other M seem epic enough. Of course The Conduit, as I have mentioned. I give you Red Steel 2 might not be epic -- but I be damned if I don't think of Stephen Kings Dark Tower epic when I see this "modern, eastern/western desert" setting. I think of it because, one, the character looks like the main gunslinger (what i would picture him), two, the desert, and three...maybe the art style, being graphic novel like. It kinda seems...epic-ish to me.

So, who knows if these games will meet your qualification of "epic", but I shall wait my final judgement until I play the damn things.

[BahnNZ]

Dude, games like FF13 just ooze epic. I take it back from the shops I might get epic on my shirt.

To be honest I'd rate Halo, an 8 year old game, higher than The Conduit. I watch the movies with an open mind and it looked like a mediocre XBox shooter. I think Black on PS2 looks better, straight up. I'm sorry it does nothing for me.

[pac4life]

^ He's right.

Sony and MS each, have way more "epic" and core based games than Nintendo.

(But you gotta be kidding about that Conduit statement....no way in hell Black on the PS2 looks better...or Halo....If you mentioned Doom 3 or Chron of Riddik, then I'd say thats open to debate. But Black? on PS2? Come on now. Thats like me saying Mario Galaxy looks better than Ratchet on PS3!!)

Come on, Style Savy? Or what ever the fuck that thing was called? What is that? And that murder mystery thing?

Those are understandable games in expanding their audience, but come on....at the E3 trade show? Which is all about core games?

Still, Viper is right: People bitching and whining need to STOP EXPECTING AND ASSUMING NINTENDO WILL SHOW GAMES LIKE ZELDA FOR WII

By making this shit up in your head before the actualy conference, you are only setting yourselves up for disappointment.

Sony themselves, Fallax, Make a LOT of first party games. They didnt show much new...although their motion controller (blatant Nintendo Wii M+ rip) was REALLY cool....but they showed way more core-1st party games than Nintendo did, so saying they dont show much is incorrect.

What Apple means by "epic" is not literal, but in a more figurative sense...For example, Sin&Punishment 2 will be a solid solid solid shooter, like the first. But its not going to have the same cinematic feel, depth to story line, voice over work etc... (see: Big Budget Production Values) like Uncharted 2, Assassins Creed 2, Gran Turismo 5 or GoW III

Sony's conference had ENERGY, which I felt Nintendo's lacked. Anyway, this is a tangent.

Metroid: Other M made that show. SMG2 was a very awesome surprise.

Nintendo fanboys: Stop bitchiing and whining.

Also, Natal was cool. But wow, when I was watching their adds, I couldnt help but laugh...its like they cut and paste Nintendo's marketing strategy from 2006.

[BahnNZ]

This the trailer I watched: http://au.wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14...ter_52709.html

I want you to put your hand on your heart and tell me this is a good looking game.

May 27th, recent video, looks all in game sharp and direct feed.

Now compare it to this: http://au.ps2.ign.com/dor/objects/66...ew_022406.html

[AC!D]

1. Dynamic Slash (AKA Dynamic Zan) wasn't shown but will be an IP you'll want to look into from Nintendo.
http://wii.ign.com/objects/142/14286512.html

Monado: Beginning of the World is a new JRPG published by Nintendo.
http://wii.ign.com/objects/143/14354769.html

Cosmic Walker is a new Nintendo published IP that...ok, we don't much about it yet but it's a new IP.
http://wii.ign.com/objects/142/14286510.html

Sin and Punishment 2 is coming. True it's a sequel but the original never left Japan.
http://wii.ign.com/objects/142/14286412.html


Don't forget they've got Disaster: Day of Crisis and Fatal Frame IV coming (some day...we hope...please....just fucking release them already). Project H.A.M.M.E.R. was canceled though I believe it's just being rebuilt into something else. Project Sora is yet to be unveiled but is supposed to be something huge.

2. When the games are quality and take years to develop, can you really call them shovelware? I think this term has become stretched beyond it's actual definition these days to include anything not targeted at the super hard core market.

3. Now known as Metroid: other M. Team Ninja is making the new Metroid game.

4. Can't that be said about every single game every prior to release?

5. Then why Pro Evo considered the best gameplay ever for a Soccer title? Did you play FIFA instead?

6. Red Steel is the only game that requires WM+ and it comes with WM+. Wii Fit is the only game that requires the Wii Balance Board and it comes with the Wii Balance Board. You can knock the system for having a lot of peripherals but the only games that absolutely require them also come bundled with the peripherals.

7. The conduit is a straight up FPS with just guns while Red Steel 2 has you switching between guns and swords on the fly. WM+ isn't required for IR controls so The Conduit doesn't need it. Red Steel 2 uses it for 1:1 sword control.

8. This is no different than the average person having to do research to get the most out of their PS3. The difference for you is you've already done that research and followed with it from day one.

One the same token, how is Sony going to convince people they need to buy a PS Eye and a Sony Motion Controller? Both will be required for any motion based games Sony releases. Will they be bundled with the games, sold separately, sold together, etc...? You asked similar questions about the Wii's peripherals yet Sony is getting into the same boat.

1. See i dont know about any of those games maybe because i didnt do my research properley or maybe because Nintendo spend 10 minutes on Core games and the rest of their show on Wii fit Plus and Pulse measuring peripherals


2. My definiton of shovelware is when a game probably wouldnt sell worth a damn and then you plaster link and Mario's face all over it to sell e.g Links crossbow training. It might be clever business practice but this doesnt exactly endear itself to the core game players. They can buy new studios or get second party agreements for that crap while letting their best First party studios make current and New IP core titles.

3. You lost me here. I dont know if you are trying to say the game is now Hack and slash or if you are just referencing the team. For me Metroid going from Retro to Team Ninja is the equivalent of Ico going to Insomniac. Not that Insomniac and Team Ninja are bad but i think you know what i mean. Corruption was one of the best FPS games ive ever played so i have to be a little worried. I said the same thing in The Crackdown 2 thread. Ppl all think Realtime worlds is making the game but they are not its some dev team called Rhino studios. Its got to make you worry. Same with Jak being given to some other developer for the new PS2/PSP game.

4. Not when we are talking about FF, Dragon quest, Resident Evil and Dead Space etc. Those are quality games that you expect a certain standard from. They might not always be Tripple AAA but you know on 360 and PS3 there will be a good standard even though FFXIII has been delayed to hell and back and FF fans are pissed it will still be a game that gets score of 8 and up. Resi 5 with its co-op campaign didnt endear itself to me but it was still a damn good game. On Wii that standard just doesnt exist anymore. So would it really be a bad idea for Nintndo to go to Capcom with money and ask them to make a true sequel to Resi 4 which i think sold well on 20 million cubes so imagoine on 50 million Wii's. A good start with MH3 in Japan but that games not gonna fly in the West.

5. I read a couple or reviews just now and ill concede that point. It really does sound promising ill have to give it a try!. Fighting games still suck though.

6. You continue to argue this point with me but if i dont get those peripherals i wont have the best experience on my Wii games and Wiiware right?

7. Their is still lag and the Conduit would be better with it its more likely they didnt have time to put it in because of Nintendo's delays i would think. If anything according Frosty this point should have been well proven to you after seeing the PS3 wand and Wii plus in action.

8. Like i said in point 1 maybe it is my fault but all i see on TV is Brain training and Wii fit. All i see at the conferences are Zelda, Mario and Metroid so its not just my fault.

Let me put it to you in another way Viper. I think you know how much i dislike ( maybe even hate ) MS as a company but i have to give them props because they make me aware of their core exclusive games by shoving them down my throat with gameplay, at conferences, in ads and on Live even better so than Sony and it works. I will probably be picking up Splinter Cell this year and another 3 exclusives from them next year. With Nintendo i will pobably pick up more games and i want to pick up more games ( because i dont dislike Nintendo and i appreciate they are responsible for my childhood) but its just that i dont know what the hell is good and whats bad anymore. The Wii seems to have this stigma that Zelda, Mario and Metroid for the win and eveything else is mediocre or shovelware particularly from 3rd parties.

On your Sony question i think thats best left for a Sony thread which i will gladly discuss with you. Ive said this a hundred times that even though Sony is obviously my favourite console brand i think you guys would be very surprised at the list of things i dislike about Sony and would be very surprised at the reasons why they are my favourite Brand compared to normal cliched fanboy answers.

[Flamin Scotsman]

whats this about golden sun 3?

my heart just skipped a beat
golden sun1 is my favourite game to this day

[Mr. Coww]

Strangely im scared of Kojima doing a Castlevania.I honnestly cant stand his games.Im completely sick of watch watch watch play play watch watch watch load load load load watch watch play watch... Also his work has always felt like bad writing school at work.Im a sci fi fan and frankly crappy sci fi pisses me off.Er ya.
Anyway Its kind sad when we get new a Mario and a Metroid and massive 3rd party love and the fan base drops a load of hate. I mean crap why did the Sony fans bitch more about a PSP with no UMD. Or MS doing that "amazing" camera.
It does seem kinda pissy of us as a group to get shitty that we didnt get a amazing new IP that gives out free handjobs and money.

Also i gota ask this to every one, what the hell does epic mean? For craps sake what means more to you a awesome and story driven cut scene or awesome and well made gameplay? Alot of the so called "epic" games kinda play like shit. I dont have time for the game makers shot at making a movie. Ill leave that to Sam Raime.

[masteratt]

lol If it makes you feel any better about Kojima' involvement:

The trailer says "In association with" KP. Whatever that means. Mercury Steam is the developer.

[BahnNZ]

Also i gota ask this to every one, what the hell does epic mean? For craps sake what means more to you a awesome and story driven cut scene or awesome and well made gameplay? Alot of the so called "epic" games kinda play like shit. I dont have time for the game makers shot at making a movie. Ill leave that to Sam Raime.

Watch the E3 demo of Assassin's Creed 2 at the Sony conference. All epic, no cutscenes. That's what I'm talking about.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3...ns-creed/50252

[Generosity of God]

well i'm excited.

Metroid by Team Ninja looks awesome. but i'm also anticipating more to come from that partnership. here's hoping Nintendo said "hey Team Ninja if we let you make money off our franchise will you give us an exclusive 3rd party title? something like Ninja Gaiden pwetty pwease"

anyways i'm happy with plenty of games from E3. the only thing i'm disappointed in is the lack of franchises like Starfox and Pikmin. i'm truly glad to be getting SMG2 and Metroid Other M but smaller franchise love would have made me all warm inside.

in other news. for the first time ever in my 20 years following Nintendo, i have more 3rd party titles on my wish list than Nintendo titles. (2:1 ratio)

as far as Nintendo goes i've learned to be patient and understanding (do not mistake for blind faith). there are things they do that i don't agree with but for the most part they deliver. now the pace of this delivery isn't always sufficient. in previous generations it always felt like a harsh wait. but with Wii it's been tolerable because now there are third party offerings that i'm interested in to fill the voids.

i think that anyone who can't find any games to play on the Wii needs to either extractus digitalus or lighten up. i hate it so much when i see people ignore good games because of mindsets like "this is a new generation anything resembling last gen is no longer good because its can't meet this generations 'standards'" and
"well i only see casual games selling so it must only have casual games".

[Fallax]

^ He's right.

Sony and MS each, have way more "epic" and core based games than Nintendo.

(But you gotta be kidding about that Conduit statement....no way in hell Black on the PS2 looks better...or Halo....If you mentioned Doom 3 or Chron of Riddik, then I'd say thats open to debate. But Black? on PS2? Come on now. Thats like me saying Mario Galaxy looks better than Ratchet on PS3!!)

Come on, Style Savy? Or what ever the fuck that thing was called? What is that? And that murder mystery thing?

Those are understandable games in expanding their audience, but come on....at the E3 trade show? Which is all about core games?

Still, Viper is right: People bitching and whining need to STOP EXPECTING AND ASSUMING NINTENDO WILL SHOW GAMES LIKE ZELDA FOR WII

By making this shit up in your head before the actualy conference, you are only setting yourselves up for disappointment.

Sony themselves, Fallax, Make a LOT of first party games. They didnt show much new...although their motion controller (blatant Nintendo Wii M+ rip) was REALLY cool....but they showed way more core-1st party games than Nintendo did, so saying they dont show much is incorrect.

What Apple means by "epic" is not literal, but in a more figurative sense...For example, Sin&Punishment 2 will be a solid solid solid shooter, like the first. But its not going to have the same cinematic feel, depth to story line, voice over work etc... (see: Big Budget Production Values) like Uncharted 2, Assassins Creed 2, Gran Turismo 5 or GoW III

Sony's conference had ENERGY, which I felt Nintendo's lacked. Anyway, this is a tangent.

Metroid: Other M made that show. SMG2 was a very awesome surprise.

Nintendo fanboys: Stop bitchiing and whining.

Also, Natal was cool. But wow, when I was watching their adds, I couldnt help but laugh...its like they cut and paste Nintendo's marketing strategy from 2006.

First off, about the whole Sony thing, didn't know their first party was big -- and nor did I know they showed some off. However, it was not Sony's conference I was disappointed in (in fact I rate it just a good as Nintendo's, but Nintendo wins because I could not expect Metroid: Other M {although I expected Mario Galaxy 2} and I am actually excited about my DS again). No, I was disappointed in MS. Virtually every game they showed, besides one that I personally don't care about (MGS Rising -- and they didn't even give the creator a big presence on the stage) I knew it was coming and have all ready heard about. And Natal? I knew they were going to show off some sort of motion camera, heard a rumor (though it was called XBOX: Fluid, though) and although I am really excited about it, that alone wasn't enough to make me enjoy their conference. Both Sony and Nintendo did a better job with the surprises and did a better job of showcasing their stuff.

And about epic -- if you are talking about production value (I mean Apple, not you) then that is not epic. Epic means larger then life, it means a adventure that is on a grand scale -- like Lord of the Rings, like Zelda. And with big production value, then your right -- Nintendo doesn't have that many games on a big production value (I wouldn't even call Halo a big production value game). Games like Final Fantasy are, and games like Zelda then aren't big production value, either (because it doesn't have voice). However, when it comes to epic, Nintendo does have a lot of epic games. But that may very well change. (however, in what you would call epic, and I call big production value, I still would put Red Steel 2 under there -- I'm pretty sure it has voice acting, and the game itself looks like they spent a lot of money on building their graphic novel style and taking advantage of Wii Motion Plus).

Your right that Nintendo's conference lacked "energy", there really was no music or anything. Maybe next year they will spice it up, but I doubt it -- I really think they take it literal that E3 is not as big as it once was.

And finally...I was laughing too. It was a play straight from the Nintendo handbook. "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery." -- Shiggy.

EDIT:
Also, if you want a high production value (or "epic") game, then Metroid: Other M should be a must have for the Wii. I don't think it comes at a higher production value then that.

[Viper]

I think the other consoles just have bigger games. These games we PS360 boys have, Assassin's Creed II, Final Fantasy 13, infamous, God of War 3, Uncharted 2 and the rest... Only word for it is big... Epic.. Stunning...

I like a bit of Mario Kart and Sin and Punishment fine, but these are small games. They may sell a lot, but epic? No... Where's the big, stunning epicness? Super Mario Galaxy is epic, I'm getting that, but these little tiny games from tiny studios...

Where's the video game bling? Deep Space is fine, but it's better on my Trey. Red Steel may be good this time around, but I wouldn't mention it in the same breath as an epic monster like Modern Warfare 2.

There is nothing in the Wii box that inhibits epicness, they're doing Assasin's Creed for PSP for gawds sake. So... Where is it? Where's your Kojima exclusive? Where's your Rockstar exclusive? Where's your 256 player game? could have heard a pin drop at that conference.

Again, what you boys doing with your money?

^ He's right.

Sony and MS each, have way more "epic" and core based games than Nintendo.

What Apple means by "epic" is not literal, but in a more figurative sense...For example, Sin&Punishment 2 will be a solid solid solid shooter, like the first. But its not going to have the same cinematic feel, depth to story line, voice over work etc... (see: Big Budget Production Values) like Uncharted 2, Assassins Creed 2, Gran Turismo 5 or GoW III

So epic is a matter of production values and budget? Is it? I've been under the impression for over 20 years that epic was a measure of scope (or just overall bad assery), not necessarily cinematography.

Semantics aside I can provide some answer to the question of why so few on Wii with the same budget and production values. I just feel like a broken record because it's something I've spoken about dozens of times here so I'm just going to copy/paste a time line I wrote not long ago.

First we need to understand how much time it takes to plan and develop these big budget games. 3 years is a minimum. From conception, to green lighting, to funding procurement, to early work, to full development, to launch. 3 years minimum while most take 4. Now follow the time line and don't forget to check the link I post.

2006 - Publishers allocated their resources for the first several years of the 7th generation based on these and more sales projections.
2007 - Publishers reacted as quickly as possible to latch onto the Wii bandwagon but with no money allocated for development they were practically forced to release PS2 ports, mini-game compilations, exceedingly low budget shelf fodder, etc...
2008 - Publishers begin reallocating resources for proper Wii development. Games will hit shelves in late 2009 to later.
2009 - Publishers are realizing they failed to support Wii properly from the beginning and have to deal with the unpredictable Wii market they established.
2010 - Even if by 2007 a developer put a big budget game into development, we wouldn't see it until 2010 or even later.

As you can see the Wii was dealt a serious blow to the budget before it even launched (that is if you checked the link I posted). Big epic games are in development now. The problem is most developers/publishers were forced to react instead of plan. I'll grant are far fewer big budget games on Wii but I think it must be understood that not every game can be a big budget game to begin with or this industry would crash and burn within a year if they tried.

Epic games are coming. But don't refute the quality of other games on the lack of epicness from it or other games. It's a silly notion to even consider. To draw a point you guys could probably easily understand, did the PS2 have epic games? Sure did so what would prevent them from being on Wii? Also, was every great PS2 game epic? Absolutely not. So why limit yourself to just epic big budget games when good quality games exist from all budget ranges?

This the trailer I watched: http://au.wii.ign.com/dor/objects/14...ter_52709.html

I want you to put your hand on your heart and tell me this is a good looking game.

May 27th, recent video, looks all in game sharp and direct feed.

Now compare it to this: http://au.ps2.ign.com/dor/objects/66...ew_022406.html

*ahem* Might want to take a look at this.
http://xbox.ign.com/dor/objects/6835...ew_022406.html

Gee, that video looks familiar but it's on the Xbox channel. I figured you knew by now that IGN reuses assets from all consoles for images and videos. Everything you saw in that video was from the Xbox version, not PS2. PS2 could not do many of those shader operations.

1. See i dont know about any of those games maybe because i didnt do my research properley or maybe because Nintendo spend 10 minutes on Core games and the rest of their show on Wii fit Plus and Pulse measuring peripherals


2. My definiton of shovelware is when a game probably wouldnt sell worth a damn and then you plaster link and Mario's face all over it to sell e.g Links crossbow training. It might be clever business practice but this doesnt exactly endear itself to the core game players. They can buy new studios or get second party agreements for that crap while letting their best First party studios make current and New IP core titles.

Well that's a dubious definition of shovelware since that's not what it means at all. I think the term you are looking for peripheral IP licensing. Which sure they do a lot of it but it's also quality stuff. Name me a 3rd party equivalent with just as much quality. Now you know why they don't outsource them much. Look what happened when they let namco create Star Fox. They have a reputation for quality with those IPs and regardless of how whored out they become the quality remains relatively consistent. Can't guarantee that with constant 3rd party outsourcing.



3. You lost me here. I dont know if you are trying to say the game is now Hack and slash or if you are just referencing the team. For me Metroid going from Retro to Team Ninja is the equivalent of Ico going to Insomniac. Not that Insomniac and Team Ninja are bad but i think you know what i mean. Corruption was one of the best FPS games ive ever played so i have to be a little worried. I said the same thing in The Crackdown 2 thread. Ppl all think Realtime worlds is making the game but they are not its some dev team called Rhino studios. Its got to make you worry. Same with Jak being given to some other developer for the new PS2/PSP game.

I was saying we are in a sense getting Ninja Gaiden because that team is making Metroid: Other M.

Retro wasn't the original creator of the Metroid franchise anyway. They were just temporary keepers while they made the Prime trilogy.

4. Not when we are talking about FF, Dragon quest, Resident Evil and Dead Space etc. Those are quality games that you expect a certain standard from. They might not always be Tripple AAA but you know on 360 and PS3 there will be a good standard even though FFXIII has been delayed to hell and back and FF fans are pissed it will still be a game that gets score of 8 and up. Resi 5 with its co-op campaign didnt endear itself to me but it was still a damn good game. On Wii that standard just doesnt exist anymore. So would it really be a bad idea for Nintndo to go to Capcom with money and ask them to make a true sequel to Resi 4 which i think sold well on 20 million cubes so imagoine on 50 million Wii's. A good start with MH3 in Japan but that games not gonna fly in the West.

We are rather pissed with Capcom. They have more million sellers on Wii than any other 3rd party except EA yet we've been jacked by them for the past several years. Granted Spyborgs is looking fant-damn-tastic.

5. I read a couple or reviews just now and ill concede that point. It really does sound promising ill have to give it a try!. Fighting games still suck though.

6. You continue to argue this point with me but if i dont get those peripherals i wont have the best experience on my Wii games and Wiiware right?

Depends. Not all games are enhanced by those peripherals such as the Zapper and Wii Wheel. You'd experience the game pretty much the same without them. Most VC games do require the Classic Controller but I believe it's a worthy addition to have given the extensive back catalog of games available. The big peripherals though that have games that "require" them typically come with the peripheral. Wii Fit comes with it's peripheral as will Red Steel 2.

7. Their is still lag and the Conduit would be better with it its more likely they didnt have time to put it in because of Nintendo's delays i would think. If anything according Frosty this point should have been well proven to you after seeing the PS3 wand and Wii plus in action.

What lag? There is no IR lag. The Conduit doesn't need WM+ because WM+ only helps detect rotation. Since The Conduit is IR based, not gesture based, it's not something that enhances anything for it. Red Steel has real time 1:1 sword fighting that is motion based, not IR based, and is greatly enhanced by WM+.

8. Like i said in point 1 maybe it is my fault but all i see on TV is Brain training and Wii fit. All i see at the conferences are Zelda, Mario and Metroid so its not just my fault.

There marketing has been a mixed bag but I think it has some logic behind it. The casual market is the hardest market to tap into (else it would have been done since the beginning) and requires more marketing to drive the points home. They don't go online and read forums and media outlets like the hardcore do who may not require as much advertising to know what's out there. On the flip side though is that Sony and MS are marketing their hardcore titles just as heavy, even heavier, than Nintendo is their casual titles which can skew viewpoints rather easily as you noted yourself. This is an unfortunate result of trying to swim in the Blue Ocean and appease the core gamers at the same time. Some considerations and trade offs are inevitable and those who may not follow Nintendo closely will largely see the casual side instead of the balanced goal. As I noted previously they've released just as many core games on Wii in 2.5 years as they did on N64 and GC in the first 2.5 years.

Its just that i dont know what the hell is good and whats bad anymore. The Wii seems to have this stigma that Zelda, Mario and Metroid for the win and eveything else is mediocre or shovelware particularly from 3rd parties.

That's a fair statement for anyone who doesn't game much on a console they may not own. I do think that for those people that more research is required on their part to fully understand any console and its software. The in you face approach of MS may work to some degree but even still those that do not regularly game on it or research upon it will undoubtedly have questions regarding the system and software much in the way you do still for Wii.

I will grant the problems with much 3rd party shovelware (quick cash in titles with little effort or direction in the development process) but my time line noted about at least should make it clear why so much existed for the first 2 years. When you've not allocated any money for the console because you expected it to fail only to have it sell faster than any console in history leaves you with little development options.

My replies are in blue.

whats this about golden sun 3?

my heart just skipped a beat
golden sun1 is my favourite game to this day

Golden Sun DS was announced at the media briefing.

http://ds.ign.com/objects/949/949592.html

Your right that Nintendo's conference lacked "energy", there really was no music or anything. Maybe next year they will spice it up, but I doubt it -- I really think they take it literal that E3 is not as big as it once was.

That's because it literally still isn't as big as it once was. Booth sizes were still smaller, no Petree Hall, No Hentia Hall and more. It was still about half the size it was during the early to mid 2000's.

[SadPanda]

I'll go ahead and be the blasphemous one.

I'm tired of killing Ridley.

Let him die, and die for good dammit!