Console Sales and Debate Thread

[Segitz]

Well... that's what I read on Twitter^^ And yes... annual loss, not quarter.

EDIT: Though I find it hard to believe that they sell the 3DS (just hardware) at a loss... that thing can't be expensive to produce, when Vita apparently costs less to produce than 200€ at the moment.

[Bliss]

Weekly Hardware VGChartz 21st April 2012

Platform	N. America	Europe	Japan	Global
	50,077	43,840	85,298	193,516
	59,211	62,921	16,475	162,971
	73,363	47,933	1,207	133,847
	35,222	23,240	6,992	73,585
	28,372	25,397	8,160	66,677
	3,417	4,928	11,839	28,622
	10,211	8,734	1,287	22,921

[OmniStalgic]

for some reason I can't see the platform names at work, but based on trends, I'm assuming the order from top to bottom is 3DS, PS3, X360, Wii, PSvita, DS, PSP

[Viper]

for some reason I can't see the platform names at work, but based on trends, I'm assuming the order from top to bottom is 3DS, PS3, X360, Wii, PSvita, DS, PSP

Correct.

You probably can't see the consoles names because they are images and the host is likely blocked.

[Gribble-Grunger]

3DS, PS3, X360, Wii, PSvita, PSP, DS

[Segitz]

It's funny how Vita has the opposite sales structure to PS3... i.e. it sells better in the US than the EU and Japan sells worst of all. Though Japan is a smaller market, but can sustain comparable sales to the others, and even outbuy them at times (case in points is the 3DS). That should tell Sony quite a lot, imho. The target market isn't there yet. And I completely put it down to the games that are available... price is an issue too, but (imho) less so. In Germany, Sony already started "incentives", and we're usually the last ones to get those, on average. 220€ for the Wifi model with Uncharted, an 8GB card and a 15€ gift card towards a Vita game is the current sale at Aamazon. Not too bad, if you ask me, yet the sales don't follow suit.

But it's no wonder that it doesn't sell, imho. All games available (that are really worth owning and which I know of) are already available in a nicer format on either the PSP (much cheaper and hacked beyond belief) or on PS3 (much nicer AND the same initial costs, plus a fully fledged BDROM etc...). There's currently no reason to buy a Vita (I'd love to get one for PS Suite SDK, but I am a bit broke, still).

[masteratt]

I am seriously thinking of switching the VITA for 3DS if it doesn't impress me by end of year. Gonna trade it in and get a 3DS on a Xmas deal. Or maybe just get the money and keep it.
That might give you a hint as to why it isn't doing great. Word-of-mouth isn't helping this thing. And word-of-mouth I feel has always been something Sony relied on.

[Segitz]

Na... I think I am done with handheld consoles... the newer smartphones (HTC One X with its quadcore and Nvidia GPU or SGS3 etc) are just... insane compared to the consoles... I don't play on my phone, though... I didn't play my PSP much, either...

[Coded-Dude]

Sony will put their gaming technology in a cell phone, but they won't put cell phone technology in their handheld....if i could get cell calls, or even google voice calls, i would have bought vita day one. i have stopped using skype and let my number expire.

[Segitz]

I've uninstalled skype on all my devices the day Microsoft bought them... that was the final nail in the coffin for me. GVoice doesn't work in Germany yet (to a degree it does, but not from phones... meh), so it's not an alternative just yet.

But yeah... make a REAL PSPhone. One that DOES play Vita games and one that DOES play Android apps and I might get one.

[OmniStalgic]

I am seriously thinking of switching the VITA for 3DS if it doesn't impress me by end of year. Gonna trade it in and get a 3DS on a Xmas deal. Or maybe just get the money and keep it.
That might give you a hint as to why it isn't doing great. Word-of-mouth isn't helping this thing. And word-of-mouth I feel has always been something Sony relied on.

I check out the 3DS fairly often, there's some nice stuff on there already, but I will admit, playing one after vita is a little disappointing as the graphical difference is pretty immediate. For me, I personally just found myself wanting to play a few of the 3DS titles on Vita, so I'm still waiting for Sony to get the same type of 3rd party support. I'll have made up my mind by Holiday 2012 when each platform's biggest games are coming out, also waiting for Sony to relight the Vita fire at E3...At this point, announcements of games will keep me with Vita as I love the hardware, but unfortunately, that's no longer enough for great software to follow, and Sony doesn't seem to be gun-ho support snatching company they used to be when launching Playstation, which is kinda what they need for Vita, it isn't PSp2, and it isn't established, still not seeing the fruits of all the of ease-of-development and so much developer support PR prior to launch.

[Viper]

And Nintendo isn't resting on the lead waiting for Vita to catch up either. They just announced they will host a 3rd party game pitch and publish system for 3DS and Wii U, 3DS just received folders for the UI (fan-damn-tastic feature) and all 1st party retail (and 3rd party at a later date) software will be fully downloadable as of August (late to the party but a big step up from what we're accustomed to with Nintendo).

[Segitz]

Folders? Hot damn, what an innovation^^

But kidding aside. What would be Sonys "Super Mario 3D Land" for Vita? (I recently played said game and I was absolutely bored by the 3D effects... dunno why though, because I usually do like 3D. The screen was fine, too...)

For me, the "best" game now is Minna no Golf... seriously. That's exactly the game I'd play on a handheld. Uncharted might be a "better" game, but I don't want to play that on a handheld, but rather on a TV. It's quite astonishing how the Vitas current games completely miss me as a demographic (I already have the PS3 version of Golf, so why a sequel, that's essentially the same, on a handheld?).

[Viper]

Folders? Hot damn, what an innovation^^

But kidding aside. What would be Sonys "Super Mario 3D Land" for Vita? (I recently played said game and I was absolutely bored by the 3D effects... dunno why though, because I usually do like 3D. The screen was fine, too...)

For me, the "best" game now is Minna no Golf... seriously. That's exactly the game I'd play on a handheld. Uncharted might be a "better" game, but I don't want to play that on a handheld, but rather on a TV. It's quite astonishing how the Vitas current games completely miss me as a demographic (I already have the PS3 version of Golf, so why a sequel, that's essentially the same, on a handheld?).

That's been Sony's problem with the portable PS concept since the beginning.....not enough 'portable demographic' content. In Japan, Monster Hunter was their portable content (even though it plays much more like a console game to begin with) but at the moment, the 3DS has taken over for Monster Hunter. After looking at the top selling PSP games, most appear to be console games anyway.

As for the 3DS folders, don't knock 'em. It's such a minor thing but they make such a major UI difference. I had about 60 icons on my UI screen but with customizable folders I have them condensed and categorized appropriately (NES games, GBA games, eShop games, Demos, System Services, Temp).

[Segitz]

Yes... but making a mounting out of a molehill is appropriate here, too... It's simply nothing to phone home about. My phone supports folders, too, and it surely has a LOT more icons in the launcher than any 3DS available... I don't use folders at all^^ (not that nobody wants them, just me). It's as with iPhone stuff... no copy and paste, no mms, no 3G etc... (Model 1 stuff) I never get why they don't simply include THE BASIC STUFF day one (and by them, I mean EVERYBODY!). PS3 still has some of the worst usability (used to be good and nice, but now it has grown too much to be usable).

But I do tend to keep my systems rather clean... i.e. no clutter, so I am less affected by this anyways.

Honestly, I became quite disillusioned by gaming these days... not that I don't game anymore... but it's just... I don't know. Maybe I need a pause again. And I don't play that much, either. It's just that games became so similar to each other. And I don't think (at least on consoles) that it'll be ANY different next gen, either. I actually fear it'll be worse. And that's not even thinking about low end hardware all around. Looking at it from my perspective, the 3DS is a DS. Nothing else. It provides exactly the same game as the DS gave us... just with the additional gimmick of a 3D screen (which isn't that fascinating, imho). The Vita is an updated PSP (though it's still early and might be unfair to call it just yet). The PS3 is an updated PS2. The 360 an updated Xbox... the only meaningful difference was Nintendo with the Wii... and that was just as bad, because it used a decade old hardware to support the input device. PCs... well they have been "the same" since 1994 (i.e. the year I got mine), and now they just get less and less games and more and more of them are just console to PC ports, not using ANY of the abilities an actual PC can give them. And that's me, sitting here with a HUGE pile of games in my backlog that I "want" to play (or at least I wanted to play them when I bought them) and enough time to do so... but am I playing? No... I am rather watching TV and going out^^

[KRA]

hmm
you seem to want companies to reinvent "console" every gen...
strange
i don't see that much change in TV
(other than tv series getting to the point of quality where movies seems strange as they have so little time to do do so many things)
yet you keep watching it.

[Segitz]

No... But looking back, the evolution from console to console can nearly always be boiled down to "better graphics"... I know this isn't the whole picture (i.e. better CPUs allow for physics etc...), but most of the time, this is it... Though I am not even sure if there is a viable way to go in gaming, unless you want to alienate half your userbase.

[OmniStalgic]

^I think certain genres simply got saturated, there's a ton of different experiences to be had on the new consoles that weren't available last gen tho, good thing is, you can kinda afford to be a picky gamer this gen as there's so many cool experiences on PSN/xbla/Wii-mote. At the very least Nintendo did have the right idea about this generation and it needing a change, just wished they would have went stronger than a Gamecube to show off that change...but it was still cool...

On the Vita, I'm not sure Sony is entirely sure how to sell portable systems just yet. They had success yes, and are the only company to even try and thwart some of Nintendo's market share, but they seriously need to re-evaluate there portable portfolio. I do see spurts of games that seem brilliant like Sound Shapes, Gravity Daze, Motorstorm RC, Stardust, and Tales from space, but the 3DS has these experience either out or announced on like a 3:1 ratio. Dunno why Vita doesn't have a game announcement like every 2 weeks The hardware is supposed to be dumb easy to program for, the kits fairly inexpensive, and developer choice and freedom on the production cost of there title should ensure a constant flow of titles. So E3 had better be THE VITA SHOW, with a good 100 game announcement with half coming out this year.

Drop the price, offer colors not 2-3 years on the market, but like 6 months down the road, bundle with popular games, release special edition units, etc etc...Sometimes, it's like Sony doesn't know what the heck they are doing because they do everything so late. Rather annoying really, as the hardware is just f'n sexy...

[Segitz]

I sort of think Sony never understood the handheld market... the only REAL thing they ever were successful with is the Walkman... and that was several decades ago. Cameras? Not the best. Phones? Not by a long shot. PDA? Do they have them?

It's not just Sony now... it's been the past too, though their technological prowess allowed them to be successful without having the best devices (because the others sucked even worse).

Home entertainment? That's a whole different story.

[OmniStalgic]

I sort of think Sony never understood the handheld market... the only REAL thing they ever were successful with is the Walkman... and that was several decades ago. Cameras? Not the best. Phones? Not by a long shot. PDA? Do they have them?

It's not just Sony now... it's been the past too, though their technological prowess allowed them to be successful without having the best devices (because the others sucked even worse).

Home entertainment? That's a whole different story.

Perhaps not the best, but what brand is really better than SOny in the camera/TV segment? I don't think there's anything on the market that blows Sony out of the water in most tech fields besides media players. Even Sony's Xperia phones are usually really solid pieces of hardware and the relaunch of them are very impressive. So I don't think they really have to have the most intuitive UI and sleek software, they certainly make good products, don't have to be the best to be successful. But they seem to be missing all the points with Vita.