720P the sweetspot for THE BEST GRAPHICS that does not fill Sony's pockets!

[makeitlookreal]

In my opinion 720P is the perfect sweetspot for HD games this generation. It's high definition enough so you can see more data on the screen, but not so ridiculously high like 1080P that games will have to be reduced in graphical quality. Basically, it takes many more computing resources to make a 1080P game than a 720P game. By sticking to the sweetspot of 720P you can get optimal graphics, a very good resolution, and more than 1% of the population will be able to play your game at it's optimal resolution.

1080P gaming is just an excuse for Sony to try and make people purchase more of their televisions. Now, I like Sony in a lot of ways and think they are a good company. In a business sense they are doing the right thing by using the PS3 to push other products they can make a profit from. However, we as consumers have to realize they are looking after themselves and we have to look out for ourselves. They are out there to make money, and by them putting pressure on developers to make 1080P games they are simply reducing the graphical quality of games and at the same time trying to pressure us into buying 1080P televisions.

Basically, I say that we need to let our voice be heard that we don't care for 1080P games. If someone wants to view a game in 1080P the truth is that many sets or the PS3 itself will be able to UPSCALE the image! But the actual games themselves need to remain at 720P.

Now, I want to say for the record that I'm not trying to portray that 1080P games will look bad. I think they will look very good. However, the absolute fact is they take up many more graphical resources, take up more memory, and force developers to push many more pixels. By keeping a game at 720P it can look very significantly BETTER than 1080P.

It really comes down to this. Most people these days still have STANDARD definition TVs. A few people have 720P capable HD TVs. But only a tiny, itty bitty percentage of people have 1080P.

What we need to politely and respectfully demand is that Sony stop pressuring their developers to produce games at 1080P and allow them to use their own best judgement as to what would be the optimal resolution for their game. If they on their own *want* to produce a 1080P game that's fine, but I doubt many would do so unless it is due to pressure from Sony. Because if your trying to make the most impressive game possibly why make one that's only going to be viewed by 1% or less of the population!!!

Sony can save 1080P for the PS4. By then a SIGNIFICANT portion of gamers will have television sets that can view that resolution. Until then lets make it be known that we want Sony to quit demanding 1080P, because the SWEETSPOT for HD this generation is 720P!

[Nameless]

Yoshaw, it was your suggestion that he create this damn thread...
Hopefully it will fall like a brick off the front page.

[yoshaw]

Yoshaw, it was your suggestion that he create this damn thread...
Hopefully it will fall like a brick off the front page.

my bad!

[makeitlookreal]

No, I think this thread is very appropriate. For example, how many of YOU own or will own a 1080P television by the time the PS3 comes out? Also, how many of you would rather be able to see fantastic games on your current 720P HD TV (if you even have one) instead of having to go out and speed $1000 or more to upgrade to 1080P?

This is an honest and sincere question.

[xbdestroya]

Guys, c'mon...

Anyway I agree, 720p is the sweetspot this gen.

[masteratt]

In my opinion 720P is the perfect sweetspot for HD games this generation. It's high definition enough so you can see more data on the screen, but not so ridiculously high like 1080P that games will have to be reduced in graphical quality. Basically, it takes many more computing resources to make a 1080P game than a 720P game. By sticking to the sweetspot of 720P you can get optimal graphics, a very good resolution, and more than 1% of the population will be able to play your game at it's optimal resolution.

Who is to say 1080p is hard to do. We only "know" this becaus X360 set the standards. If SEGA can produce 1080p on PS3 from day one, so will many other "well off" developers and I don't think there needs to be much graphical sacrifice at all (nameless replied in another thread as to why not).

1080P gaming is just an excuse for Sony to try and make people purchase more of their televisions. Now, I like Sony in a lot of ways and think they are a good company. In a business sense they are doing the right thing by using the PS3 to push other products they can make a profit from. However, we as consumers have to realize they are looking after themselves and we have to look out for ourselves. They are out there to make money, and by them putting pressure on developers to make 1080P games they are simply reducing the graphical quality of games and at the same time trying to pressure us into buying 1080P televisions.

Excuse me but I believe other companies sell HD TVs that support 1080p? Now if I see a Sony Bravia + PS3 bundle, then you have a point but at the moment, people can buy any HD TV they want. Also if that bundle happens, people still have a choice of not buying it. Sony is not forcing anything.

Basically, I say that we need to let our voice be heard that we don't care for 1080P games. If someone wants to view a game in 1080P the truth is that many sets or the PS3 itself will be able to UPSCALE the image! But the actual games themselves need to remain at 720P.

I actually want 1080p as I am working my ass off saving up for PS3 and HD TV and the pay off will be games and the bigger satisfaction will be knowing the HD TV i worked my ass off for (well, not really working THAT hard ha, but still) will be worth it.

It really comes down to this. Most people these days still have STANDARD definition TVs. A few people have 720P capable HD TVs. But only a tiny, itty bitty percentage of people have 1080P.

Eveyrthin starts out with nothing and grows. HD TV has potential to grow. At least in UK as Sky (the biggest satellite company in UK) is supporting HD like mad. There is always an advert on one of the channels advertising Sky HD.

What we need to politely and respectfully demand is that Sony stop pressuring their developers to produce games at 1080P and allow them to use their own best judgement as to what would be the optimal resolution for their game. If they on their own *want* to produce a 1080P game that's fine, but I doubt many would do so unless it is due to pressure from Sony. Because if your trying to make the most impressive game possibly why make one that's only going to be viewed by 1% or less of the population!!!

You just repeated yourself here and wtf 1080p is NOTHING EVIL! As Sony says "Next-gen will start when we say it does" Don't go drown yourself in MS sentiments. For all we know 1080p is as easy to do for devs as many things. Just because X360 came out early claiming itself to be "next gen" and then saying "1080p is impossible" doesn't mean PS3 can't pull it off.

Sony can save 1080P for the PS4. By then a SIGNIFICANT portion of gamers will have television sets that can view that resolution. Until then lets make it be known that we want Sony to quit demanding 1080P, because the SWEETSPOT for HD this generation is 720P!

Again, technology grows fast. People adopt to new technology fast.

[PUNK em 733]

I'm with MILR. He is making a valid point.

[EvilTaru]

my bad!

So you're the one to blame!!!

lol

[xbdestroya]

Though MILR, we don't know that Sony is actually putting any pressure on devs to do 1080p - frankly I just think it's another option for them. Racing and sports games seem well suited for it though relative to other games... so I say, why not 1080p?

But for the effects/object ridden games I tend to be fond of, I imagine 720p will be the way.

Now that I think of it however, perhaps less intensive RPGs will get the 1080p treatment as well. (that's a lot of back end work for the devs though in massive worlds, even though the GPU could handle it)

[yoshaw]

Also,

Downresing a game from 1080p to 720p or below. Wouldn't that make free anti-aliasing for consumers with 720p sets? Just curious.

[PUNK em 733]

Also,

Downresing a game from 1080p to 720p or below. Wouldn't that make free anti-aliasing for consumers with 720p sets?

Now that would be cool. I don't see how feasible that would be, but it would be awesome non the less.

[makeitlookreal]

XBD,

I have read at least a few articles with comments from developers saying that Sony is at least trying to convince them to make their games 1080P. I believe if that much has been revealed to the public more pressure is being applied on the inside.

Masteratt,

It's obvious that it takes more resources to make a 1080P game. You are going to be using more memory, more bandwidth, more shading power, and more graphical resources all together. I don't think 1080P is evil and I think it's really cool. It's an amazingly sharp technology! But I just don't see the benefit of making a game 1080P!

For example, look at your standard definition TV. Have you ever watched an amazing looking movie on it? Seriously, have you watched a good looking action, horror, fantasy, or scifi movie? Of course you have! And I bet it looked darn good too! Very realistic because obviously it was real footage sometimes mixed with HIGH end CG work.

Now, a 720P image has THREE TIMES THE DATA of a normal 480i signal that you are probably watching on your television. That is a big improvement right there. Obviously, we know that all developers are targeting games for at least 720P. That means that in a PS3 game your going to see three times the visual data on screen than on a normal SD TV.

What I am trying to get across is that we have not even NEARLY reached the point of a game looking like a movie on even a STANDARD DEFINITION television! Much less have we reached the point of a game looking like a movie or even SIMILIAR on a 720P HD television!

It's going to be more difficult to achieve that movie quality look on a HD television than a SD television. However, I realize that SD has been here a LOT time so it's about time for a jump forward. In my opinion, 720P is a nice jump with three times the data.

Now, we all want great graphics. Yes, gameplay is important. Physics, animation, particle effects, and storylines are also critical. They are VITAL. But to get to the truth the above features staying the same any of us would pick a game with BETTER graphics than one with LESSER graphics!

Quite frankly, it's going to be much more difficult to push *closer* to even SD television or movie level graphics on the PS3 with 1080P than 720P. The truth is even 720P will be more difficult, but I think many people will say it's time for a jump.

I'm just saying we have barely jumped into 720P and if we really want the highest quality graphics possible it makes sense to urge game developers that we don't really care for 1080P games unless they honestly think that is what's BEST for their game.

You see, Sony is not evil and 1080P is not evil. But we are the consumers and have to look after ourselves. The truth is that companies such as Sony AND OTHERS want to create new markets for new products to sell. If someone is complacent with 720P gaming (even though there is room for a TREMENDOUS ammount of improvement at that level with the PS3) it doesn't make them them as much money as if everyone is CLAMORING to purchase a brand new expensive 1080P television set.

I have nothing against 1080P.
I have nothing against anyone that wants to buy one.
I have nothing against great looking HD images utilizing 1080P.

But when it comes to games I want the best looking graphics possible and to some degree (I'm not a developer so I can't give you ever tiny technical number) a 1080P game requires significantly more resources than a 720P game. In my opinion with those extra resources being squeezed out of the PS3 the 720P game could be made to look much better!

Hey, I applaud you for working so hard to get your PS3 and HDTV. I'm not upset at you at all, and if it sounded that way I apologize. I'm not at all criticising people purchasing 1080P televisions. I just think that the truth is that the most realistic graphics will be possible at 720P this generation.

The PS3 is tremendously powerful and is capable of 1080P games. But those games would indeed look better if the same extra work was done on the 720P version.

Sony knows that, but honestly wants us to run out and buy the latest and greatest super expensive 1080P set because they want to make more money. There is nothing wrong with that, because they are a business out to make money and that's their job. But as a consumer we need to speak up and show our clout by telling companies that we know what they are up too!

[xbdestroya]

Also,

Downresing a game from 1080p to 720p or below. Wouldn't that make free anti-aliasing for consumers with 720p sets? Just curious.

Yes it would provide a measure of free SSAA of sorts on 720p sets, this is true. Conversly, some people prefer greater resolutions to greater AA, so some games may feature little AA, but render at 1080p... and on 720 sets they'd get that sort of 'free' AA.

When I play PC games I always try to max the resolution even at the expense of lowering the AA (of which I don't really care). This may seem counter to my 720p > 1080p personal desires - it's just that even before resolution, I prefer effects.

(I want to make clear though that 1080p won't be achieved just by kicking out AA; it's draw on resources is higher than that of the anti-aliasing, so there will be further trade-off)

[jaxmkii]

radioshack has a whole line of lessthan 1000usd 1080p HDTVs.

[Beenie Man]

It is a good thing some PS3 games are using 1080p so when 1080p screens become really mainstream and very cheap, luckily the PS3 will support it as well as games. IMO 720p and 1080p are your best bet for HD gaming but with 720p being your best choice(more content) for now atleast.

[xbdestroya]

radioshack has a whole line of lessthan 1000usd 1080p HDTVs.

Are you serious? Well c'mon now, I think that deserves a link, yeah?

[makeitlookreal]

When I play PC games I always try to max the resolution even at the expense of lowering the AA (of which I don't really care). This may seem counter to my 720p > 1080p personal desires - it's just that even before resolution, I prefer effects.

(I want to make clear though that 1080p won't be achieved just by kicking out AA; it's draw on resources is higher than that of the anti-aliasing, so there will be further trade-off)

I totally agree XBD. At higher resolutions you are going to see fewer effects and the graphical quality as a whole will be diminished. Also, it's good to see someone at least willing to admit the obvious that a game at 1080P will create many trade-offs due to the increased consumption of graphical resources! Quite simply, if you get TWICE the resolution of 720P your going to be giving up a significant ammount of graphical effects.

As an example, I will be VERY upset if Resistance FOM or MGS4 (these games in particular just because I'm probably more interested in them than some others) end up being made into 1080P games. Because obviously some very significant reductions in graphical quality and effects will HAVE to be made. You CANNOT get something for nothing and you cannot DOUBLE the resolution of a game and not give up *something* that would have been REALLY nice to see at 720P!

[xbdestroya]

I totally agree XBD. At higher resolutions you are going to see fewer effects and the graphical quality as a whole will be diminished. Also, it's good to see someone at least willing to admit the obvious that a game at 1080P will create many trade-offs due to the increased consumption of graphical resources! Quite simply, if you get TWICE the resolution of 720P your going to be giving up a significant ammount of graphical effects.

As an example, I will be VERY upset if Resistance FOM or MGS4 (these games in particular just because I'm probably more interested in them than some others) end up being made into 1080P games. Because obviously some very significant reductions in graphical quality and effects will HAVE to be made. You CANNOT get something for nothing and you cannot DOUBLE the resolution of a game and not give up *something* that would have been REALLY nice to see at 720P!

Right, but I want to say though that Resistance may very well go for 1080p, just because they are a first-party dev and Sony does want to push it. And frankly, if it does launch at 1080p, it'll be one sharp looking game - either for owners of 1080 sets or those enjoying the SSAA. We'll find out soon enough I imagine if they're still targeting 1080p. If they are, they reach it, and the game still matches, say, Gears of War in the eyes of the critics... then that will be quite an achievement early on. But again, we'll see...

Kojima definitely wants to push the envelope, so whether that means 1080p or what, I don't know - but I do know he will only pursue what he feels will be best for the game. If he does 1080p, it's because that's what he will have felt was the best use of resources; likewise if he does 720p.

As for Tennis... what eye-candy are you looking for anyway? So I think it's a perfect candidate for 1080p; what's desired there is strong character models, and a sharp picture.

[Beenie Man]

Maybe the final PS3 dev kits are really powerful since some games that were originally 720p(Virtua Tennis 3, Army Of Two) are all of sudden going to support 1080p. Maybe the final PS3 dev kits were an extremely huge jump. However, I do not want to start a ''PS3 has G80 1GB Memory RAM Muahyahah'' thread so...

[Smokey]

i have to say i totally agre with the 720p sweet spot and the odd 1080 game. if your lucky enough to have a 1080p tv well itll be great