PSINext forever
Originally Posted by Nameless
I'm not sure about this though. PS2 maintained PS1's dominance in part due to the cycle of: console dominance ---> increased developer support, increased developer support ---> console dominance.
PS3 will sell strong at the start, but it has to keep going strong in spite of it's high price and 360 needs to begin losing momentum after PS3's launch for the same impetus to develop for Sony to take hold. On the plus side, I think that if 360 is unable to break out of it's rut in Japan, that will provide Sony with another generation of quasi-exclusive support from the top Japanese dev houses.
Respect to all those who debate their positions using facts and reason rather than rumor and passion.
Just chillin'
Isn't it funny how he reads his answer on sudden question of "is PS3 really gonna be more powerful than threesixty?" which was seemingly very much agreed on before the "interview". His eyes move in such a way that he reads his answer straight from a teleprompter or such
He is on MS's PR paycheck, you people know he sits on Xbox board? It's no wonder guy repeated the same talk last year before Xb 360 was launched and now repeats it after E3.
MS almost single handedly invented FUD tactics, that's their cheapest ánd most easy to implement marketing tactics and to certain degree they have always succeeded in it. So they love downplaying their competition and spreading lies. These days it's easy, just paying few gaming blogs or stores to tell "rumours" and "I've heard that it doesn't support..." and "PS3 will do this and that nasty things to your kitten and momma" and "it will overheat and burn down your house" and things like that.
One positive notice about the "interview": PS3 is no longer "pain in his ass" as he described it last year
So many games so little time..
PSN: GribbleGrunger
possitivity patrol, listen, listen, listen...
Whaaa ha!
Well you know, we would listen to Carmack but we're all so busy playing all those great games he made for PS2...
The whole "PC devs hate Cell argument" is as dumb as it gets. Go to your PS2 game library, count up how many started on PC and got ported. I got 100 PS2 games, it's 0%.
Resident Trooper
where the hell did you hear that?
almost all devs have shown the ease of cell over EE sounds like MS fud
We the people...
Pardon Me
Carmack doesnt like the Cell, there is nothing new about that one.
I wouldnt harp on which developer says what or says this, its now completely about games with the launch of the console nearing. Soon there arent going to be many developer comments only results will be games and they are already speaking for themselves.
PSN: GribbleGrunger
good point wounding. power is one thing results are another.
PSINEXT User
And we're seeing good results in a number of PS3 games, such as Heavenly Sword, MotorStorm, Metal Gear Solid 3, etc. And I really don't see the competitors matching the visual area of these games, and more like being weaker in this area.
Pardon Me
I personally thought that the two best console games were Gears of War and Mass Effect. Although to each his own. The most impressive PS3 title by far was HS, Motor Storm looks very interesting but primarily a physics demo (nothing spectacular, I really hope they improve the speed of the game a racing title that goes 30 mph needs some work). I dont see how anyone could have watched both presentations and thought that Sony provided game visuals superior to MS.
Although the physics provided with Motorstorm are the best I have seen in a game and rivaled by none.
Oh and honorable mentions to Bio Shock and War Hawk.
Sound Engineering
IMHO - Eight Days and the full lenght Coded Arms trailers were equally impressive....
.
if you are talking about pure graphical power, MGS4 is rendered in real-time. thus you can judge by what you see even if the playable portion is a top-down 2D sprite side scroller.Im not willing to compare MGS4 until we see gameplay.
if you are talking about how a game actually plays, that is another topic. in that case, yes, we need to see some people actually playing it to see what kind og gameplay it offers.
as to the topic of which dev says what about what:
that is interesting for me. and as David Jaffe said, "I tend to listed to devs that actually did something in the past. everybody talks begin in the beginning of each generation. but not all of them deliver"- or something to that extent. so I like to hear what big devs have to say about certain hardware/software features if only from a purely tech curiousity side of view.
although Carmack explanation isn't the most popular or agreed apone, the man deserves an ear when he made Doom 3 (= fantastic graphics) not to mention a great console port of the game as well.
on a similar note, if Darkstalker (or something) game wasn't being made by Starbreez (of Riddick game fame) I wouldn't be even slightly interested in that game or their comments.
not everything should be viewd as "this means a praise or a stab". I like to read it for fun and to learn more about the hardware/software making the games happen.
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
- Steven Weinberg
“If Jesus had been killed twenty years ago, Catholic school children would be wearing little electric chairs around their necks instead of crosses.”
- Lenny Bruce
Pardon Me
if you are talking about pure graphical power, MGS4 is rendered in real-time. thus you can judge by what you see even if the playable portion is a top-down 2D sprite side scroller.
if you are talking about how a game actually plays, that is another topic. in that case, yes, we need to see some people actually playing it to see what kind og gameplay it offers.
as to the topic of which dev says what about what:
that is interesting for me. and as David Jaffe said, "I tend to listed to devs that actually did something in the past. everybody talks begin in the beginning of each generation. but not all of them deliver"- or something to that extent. so I like to hear what big devs have to say about certain hardware/software features if only from a purely tech curiousity side of view.
although Carmack explanation isn't the most popular or agreed apone, the man deserves an ear when he made Doom 3 (= fantastic graphics) not to mention a great console port of the game as well.
on a similar note, if Darkstalker (or something) game wasn't being made by Starbreez (of Riddick game fame) I wouldn't be even slightly interested in that game or their comments.
not everything should be viewd as "this means a praise or a stab". I like to read it for fun and to learn more about the hardware/software making the games happen.
Yeah Z I had edited that portion LOL
But Im not denying the visuals of the engine or of the trailer itself rather that gameplay is not going to have that cenima feel to it and the trailer doesnt represent gameplay (character movements, on screen action etc etc). As far as much of the graphical quality associated with the trailer Im not demeaning it rather that gameplay is not going to "look" like what the trailer shows.
Citizen
i programming since 20 years in low level(asm) , programmed emotion engine on devkit , and i read cell's docswhere the hell did you hear that?
almost all devs have shown the ease of cell over EE sounds like MS fud
if you dont believe , look my old old engine (16 mhz, no gpu )
http://web.axelero.hu/varga1973/space.zip
i'am a CELLMINATOR
Pardon Me
8 days was rendered and Im not aware of Coded Arms.
Sound Engineering
Pardon Me
waiting to download thanks Dude
The ultimate wet blanket
I'm pretty sure they spoke of how much better the toolset, libraries, documentation, and overall support is now than the PS2 days (so that they could get going that much quicker). Cell still has more resources to manage, and every SPE's context is totally localized, so given equal support, EE probably would be easier.almost all devs have shown the ease of cell over EE sounds like MS fud
That said, the level of support and complexity of libraries that Cell has, even in an ideal universe, could never have existed on EE (for various reasons). So if version is simply comparing his perusal of the docs to his past experience on PS2, then he's just extrapolating on the assumption that PS3's toolkit will be nothing more than gcc in a cmdline Linux environment, executing everything through cmdline dstdb.
To put it in perspective --
PS1 tools : The sewers in Hell.
PS2 tools : Hell.
PSP tools : Earth.
Xbox/X360 tools : The place where God only wishes he could live.
And I should say that in the global scope of software development tools, MS' tools thus far are pretty god-awful. And while it's not a console issue, the fact that MFC exists is why programmers know how to weep.
Cell phones have changed mankind. Finally, men have something they can flip out and argue "mine is smaller than yours."
Resident Trooper
simply said carmack fears change look at his portfolio... is all the same old crap just revamped...
don't get me wrong i love Doom3 but once the gleam of the new grafix wore off it was just recycled doom
correct me if im wrong buy isnt his only console XP a PC port to xbox making him both in experinced and bias?
We the people...
Citizen
John Carmack is whining because his studio has to train the engineers/programmers again. Most of these video game companies are too small to afford a top rate training program. This is why these companies always ask for experience. They do not offer much in the way of training and this is why a lot of these companies do not offer entry level programs. You usually need experience to break into the gaming industry.
You can't blame Carmack for not liking multicore programming. He doesn't like it because his company simply can't afford to train many programmers/engineers.
Sup guys, I'm garf, I'm redundant.
he hasn't made a decent game in years, why should we believe him, when a talented dev like Hideo comes out and says "PS3 sucks" than i will believe it!
Less invasions, more equations!
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