Main Screen Turn On!
Hm... I dunno. I have too little data to analyze it. PCs suffered the same "fate" in the past decade (exploding power draw), but it has stopped, and they still got faster with each generation. Though I can't tell, if the power ceiling actually made it progress slower or not (would have to check old review data etc). GPUs did however get a LOT more intelligent in the recent past. Which means that using them is harder, but can net much better results.Originally Posted by Smokey
On the other hand, we're already seeing diminishing returns. Yes, the new demos look leaps and bounds better than current gen AAA games, but to most, I don't think they will be as shocked as we were back when PS3 was shown first. At least I think so.
It's a very complex system overall. I just hope neither MS nor Sony chicken out. It was sad to see the original Xbox never being used to the brim, as PS2 was much slower and "lead the cycle". It's similar to PCs today with the old consoles... And I surely hope they BOTH don't chicken out, either. That'd suck even worse and would lead to Ipad is "gaming king". That'd be horrible.
Kept you waiting
Teh_Insider
I tested this concept recently. My best friend is a "casual core" gamer. He loves all the core games, but just isn't into gaming like we are. Doesn't know all the odds and ends about graphics, sound, CPU, physics, etc... I explain it to him as best I can sometimes, but he doesn't have his head wrapped around it by any means. So, I showed him the new FF tech demo recently and told him this is what to expect out of the new consoles. While he was impressed, he later responded to me saying "See, the visuals look like the cut scenes of today's games." by saying "Yeah, but so does God of War 3. You can't tell it's cut scenes from it's gameplay either.". I had to take a minute to explain to him the fidelity differences, such as how individual hairs were rendered and reacting to physics, whereas hair on many characters in GOW3 was a texture mapped glob of polygons with some shader effects on it. He noticed it then, as well as the better shadows, but only after I took the time to point it out.
The average consumer is going to look at next gen this way. It's going to take a hell of a lot to get the average person to want to put down their current consoles in favor of new ones, which is why I see each of the new systems relying on a hook much like Wii U's screen. We're already hearing of augmented reality glasses from MS and VR goggles from Sony, in addition to Vita integration/SmartGlass, and I see these things being the catch phrases that sell these consoles to the general public, not how many gigs of RAM or GPU/CPU cores it has. We've kinda hit a graphical plateau in the eyes of the general public.
- A LunaticYou wanna destroy the nation, balance the budget.
*madhouse's offical creepy old guy*
thats the problem i see frosty next gen is just gonna be the Facebook gen consoles. if you cant facebook or twitter while ya playing they wont buy it
my PSN name is smokey777
Originally posted julps31
The truth. MGS has aged gracefully. MGS1 = MILF
You must love your fellow as yourself
^services are good though, and how cool would it be for everything to be as connected as you wanted. You turn on your PS4, and friend's from Facebook, Twitter, PSN, can all hit u up in chat, or text, or even a video call with friends on Google. That's pretty cool, and people really life for things to be connected that way.
With that level of software fidelity, and graphics like that FF demo, I'd say that's a pretty impressive leap. Just as big as PS2-PS3, it's just not as noticeable since this gen got really really close to photo realistic stuff.
In all honestly , I just want Sony to go back to basics like they did with Vita. No Gimmicky catch phrase needed, just launch with awesome games, ask 3rd party guys want they want, and get everyone involved in your platform. Go back to the drawing board with the dual shock controller and make it more comfortable. Don't just match Xbox Live, but go and ask Google/Android/Linux developers to come up with a cool, up-gradable OS for PS4. Fill in the links to WWS missing genres like RPG's Adventure games etc...Get the GT team back on the scene in a big way by relesaing GT6 with the launch of PS4. And of course, make the upgrade from PS3-PS4 as seamless as possible. Bring that hungry 90's sony back already...
Sony needs to stop letting all there hardware ideas get outclassed by cheaper, more software savvy competition, and marketing.
Last edited by OmniStalgic; 06-23-2012 at 01:36 AM.
“Had the religion of Christianity been preserved according to the ordinances of the Founder, the state and commonwealth of Christendom would have been far more united and happy than they are. Nor can there be a greater proof of its decadence than the fact that the nearer people are to the Church, the head of their religion, the less religious are they.”
"By their Fruits, you will recognize them..."
*madhouse's offical creepy old guy*
omni you cant have it both ways
my PSN name is smokey777
Originally posted julps31
The truth. MGS has aged gracefully. MGS1 = MILF
total destruction
Ok, don't ask me how I missed it, but similar to Frosty's video on the last page, I did. But anyhow, this video was posted by solidsnake. Currently, it is for the PC, and as you can already see, it is matching the many descriptions to which I believed the next PlayStation will hit. Yet, this is currently out.
Remember Half Life 2, Doom 3 and Far Cry for the PC? These games came at the END of the home consoles' life cycles, but they were so far ahead of consoles at the time that people didn't believe that the next consoles would be too much better. It turned out that the next consoles, even the underpowered 360 going in at $300 completely destroyed what the most technical PCs had been doing at the time, nevermind the PS3. My point is, if these consoles are to last for another 10 yrs, they have to be able to keep up with PC competitors. So if this here is what's being done now, this will not be the ceiling mark nor slightly even better when Sony and Microsoft arrives. As hard as it is to believe right now, I feel a lot of you may very well be picking your jaw off the floor.
---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 PM ----------
I totally agree with this. In fact, it's been for quite a few years now. Even still, unlike Nintendo, Microsoft and especially Sony, are not the type to put a damper on the performance of the platform as a trade off for a specific feature or input device. The PS1,PS2,PS3,PSP and Vita, are prime examples of this, and all of them either launched with or were later given new capabilities to enhance their game play. Not once was there a performance sacrificed. You'd kill apart of your demographic if you did since most games, many coming from PCs, require that horsepower under the hood.
A pretty picture is not going to move a system to that of a working input device, and Sony knows this.
You must love your fellow as yourself
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ttR1...eature=related
More next-gen expectations...
dunno, about you guys, but those demos are extremely impressive...mouth didn't hit the floor, but it was open the whole time...
“Had the religion of Christianity been preserved according to the ordinances of the Founder, the state and commonwealth of Christendom would have been far more united and happy than they are. Nor can there be a greater proof of its decadence than the fact that the nearer people are to the Church, the head of their religion, the less religious are they.”
"By their Fruits, you will recognize them..."
Gattai da!
You can always tell a new console generation is around the corner when you can tell the latest PC games are just beyond the current generation's abilities. At least with all maxed settings. Then the next console generation eclipses those games. And the cycle continues.
Uncharted2 = GOTY
This.
We are made of the same stuff of dreams
Main Screen Turn On!
So... we get new consoles when the new consoles are just out^^ (just kidding, but to a degree, this is true, looking back at Crysis for example).
Kept you waiting
You must love your fellow as yourself
I think you can have a little bit of both...omni you cant have it both ways
Even with PS3, you can tell all that stuff is an afterthought whereas on xbox Live is very integral into the system, probably wouldn't have been as successful without Live. Playstation is still very much about the games though. PSN focuses on games, WWS makes PS3 the most exclusives, Sony didn't release PS3.5 with an upgraded OS, they released portable playstations to offer more games. PS2 classics, PS one classics, original PSN titles, Indy PSN titles, minis, etc...I think Playstation is still very much a pure gaming platform. The OS/online store simply needs updating and better integration, and adding some further connectivity options won't detract from what Sony has built I don't think.
“Had the religion of Christianity been preserved according to the ordinances of the Founder, the state and commonwealth of Christendom would have been far more united and happy than they are. Nor can there be a greater proof of its decadence than the fact that the nearer people are to the Church, the head of their religion, the less religious are they.”
"By their Fruits, you will recognize them..."
total destruction
As great as that looks, this is more like the very bare minimum mark for next gen consoles, if even that. In fact, this reminds me of Splinter Cell: Choas Theory in comparison to Splinter Cell: Blacklist. This was another jewel that was released at the end on the consoles' life cycle for the PC. The funny thing is people actually thought this game was so superior due to the performance the PC was putting out at the time. But, when you compare it Blacklist, Chaos theory pales in comparison. It's not even on the same level in at least ONE AREA. It's down right laughable when you compare the two.
Next-gen is going to look closer to CGI in actual movies than a video game based on the leaps for every previous gen's transition.
Last edited by Domination; 06-24-2012 at 09:12 PM.
Ni-No-Kuni Nut
I think that people will have to pay quite a hefty sum for the PS4... maybe as much as the PS3. The reason? Because that will be it. no more consoles from Sony in the foreseeable future, and there's absolutely no reason for a PS5 and never will be. BC/PS4/Vita integration/Streaming Games. DONE. the upgrading will be done for free server side. So it doesn't matter how long it takes them to hit a large userbase because every game made on the PS3 will be playable via PSN on the PS4 (just like people are still developing PSP games because they know they can also sell them on the Vita via PSN at a later date.
and there you have it. the return to an old old thread I started many moons ago predicting this very thing: 'Sony are creating a perpetual gaming market and will 'brand' PS itself. PS branded phones, PS branded tablets etc. PSN was their goal and always was, not the hardware that delivers it
Last edited by Gribble-Grunger; 06-27-2012 at 04:20 AM.
*madhouse's offical creepy old guy*
you got sad outlook gribble, id hate you to work for sony... that would be depressing
my PSN name is smokey777
Originally posted julps31
The truth. MGS has aged gracefully. MGS1 = MILF
Uncharted2 = GOTY
PS4 will be a dream console, and after 7/8 years we will have another beast, people want consoles, Wii, 360 and PS3 approaching respectively 100M, 70M and other 70M units sold, a lot more than previous gen, and current gen is not finished yet, with PS3 and 360 very well alive, ready to sell a lot for other 3 years, at least ! These are numbers.
If you want to play a real next gen Game, if you want to play a 'movie' in front of a nice TV with 5.1/7.1 on a soft sofa, you need a next gen console like 'PS4', or the next XBox, or WII U for another tipology of game experience; people like new powerful technology, consoles will continue to be here, thanks GOD. Imagine playing video games only on phones or tablets, I would stop playing videogames. And it's full of people who think like me=96M Wii plus 67M 360 plus 65M PS3 users, growing and growing. PC gaming is going down and down since the latest consoles are out. Most people want to play on consoles.
We are made of the same stuff of dreams
*madhouse's offical creepy old guy*
AMEN Bliss!! i dont want no piss poor handheld, streamed game shit, i want a console to plug into me TV. i wish the next console would do triple screens (1 console not friggin 3) this is the same shit talk 'gribble' how people say ALL we need is WIRELESS internet (3G/4G) i mean FFS only real net is Hardwired to the house... and cliffy the world/people do not have the net to stream games off a server... id also be quite happy to pay $1000 for a ripsnorter PS4.
ok givin up on rant
my PSN name is smokey777
Originally posted julps31
The truth. MGS has aged gracefully. MGS1 = MILF
Main Screen Turn On!
From what I read, that's actually not true. Though I can't source anything now (too lazy to go and search for it). With retail, you are most likely very right. But since most sales charts don't include any of the direct download services, which make up a huge part of the current market, the numbers are skewed anyways. Ever since the inception of Steam and others, as well as good gamepads for PC and the easy ability to hook up your PC to your TV (as HDMI finally makes it possible, and before that not a whole lot of TVs had VGA or anything similar), it simply has become a console in itself. And as the generational curve on PC usually stays with the consoles, for the time being, you'll never need a high end PC to easily exceed the fidelity of consoles AND pay less for your games, too.
Nothing against consoles here, but PC could use some revitalizing gel... and I am confindent it'll happen in the next decade, before gaming becomes completely different from what we are doing now.
Kept you waiting
Citizen
There will always be more powerful and more advanced hardware to come. There's no escape around it. And because that is very relevant in it's nature to the whole "next-gen" discussion it reaches to all electronics and not just consoles... So basically, that will keep new and more powerful gaming devices coming out sooner or later depending on market situations. The only thing holding things back from a full effect of advanceness will be dimishing returns in the visual scope of the video games to come in the future. But we a still far from "not noticing much difference" between generations, I believe. If anything, right now the current generation has been going on for so long that it will not be that hard for Sony (nor MS for that matter) to present a clear visual leap over the games we play now, even if they take a safer route in designing the new console (which they probably will IMO).
I was thinking about memory and the costs related in to the designing of a new console. There have been rumours lately about the next xbox having as much as 8 gigs of slower memory while the ps4 would have 2-4 gigs of faster memory but a faster GPU... I have a few questions about that possible scenario:
-I do not know much about the cost of a certain memory, but which would be more ideal for similar money: A considerably big amount of slower ram or a clearly smaller amount of very fast ram?
-Then considering a maximum full development cost, would it be more ideal to leave the machine with less memory in order to get a considerably more powerful GPU in it? Lets just say for an example: A system with 2 gigs of fast quality ram with a super GPU vs. a system with 4 gigs of the same memory but with a considerably lesser GPU? Both would have the same total cost.
-Then since we are automatically (well, hopefully) talking 2 gigs and above for the ps4, wouldn't that result in a dilemma for loading times? I would imagine it could be rather difficult to use that potential 4 gb of memory to it's fullest due to the slowness of optical media (blu-ray)? There have been rumours of SSD memory working as a cache, but wouldn't it be too expensive still for a next-gen console?
Last edited by Theo; 06-27-2012 at 02:27 PM.
Main Screen Turn On!
I for one would probably prefer 4GB of fast RAM to 8GB of slower RAM. 2GB... that'd be a tougher nut to crack (not that any of the programs I ever wrote needed more than 2GB) for the developers. I'd ask... 2GB of fast RAM and an SSD (dunno what size) as scratchpad, or 4GB and no scratchpad. Not sure what would be better. Looking at games like RAGE, the first option would be preferable... and the way it does work, it can be a way into the future. Games similar to this, like Uncharted (using the HDD for advanced streaming) might prefer this option, too. Other games prefer the latter option.
Probably the first option... Not sure though, as I have little experience, actually. My line of thought is as follows. Yes, 2GB will be a bitch in any case, but having more processing capabilites and faster RAM allow for "easier" circumvention of problems. A slower GPU with more/slower RAM will reach a hard limit of what it can do much faster, I guess.-Then considering a maximum full development cost, would it be more ideal to leave the machine with less memory in order to get a considerably more powerful GPU in it? Lets just say for an example: A system with 2 gigs of fast quality ram with a super GPU vs. a system with 4 gigs of the same memory but with a considerably lesser GPU? Both would have the same total cost.
As I said above... I don't expect the 2GB option to run alone. That'd be really bad. Even the fastest BDROMs today (which are loud as hell, and probably not as reliable) have 12xCAV (i.e. slow inner rim, fast outer rim, at 54MB/s), which is an order of a magnitude slower than a good SSD. Plus the additional hit incurred for seek time and layer switches. There'll always be a slow start in games (look at Uncharted 3 for example), as it has to fill the RAM without the scratchpad buffer (unless you use a persistant system, like PS3s hdd and live installations like Fallout).-Then since we are automatically (well, hopefully) talking 2 gigs and above for the ps4, wouldn't that result in a dilemma for loading times? I would imagine it could be rather difficult to use that potential 4 gb of memory to it's fullest due to the slowness of optical media (blu-ray)? There have been rumours of SSD memory working as a cache, but wouldn't it be too expensive still for a next-gen console?
Breaking it down... I'd probably prefer a lower RAM system coupled with a fast-ish "buffer", be it slow RAM or an SSD or HDD for temporary usage or permanent installations. Though this could as well be much worse than the alternative... It's just a feeling.
Kept you waiting
Ni-No-Kuni Nut
streaming is the future people. PS4 will be exactly what I said it would be many many times. I don't like the idea, but it's going to happen. it will still play all the games on the PS3, but everything else will be streamed. you WILL get physical copies of PS4 games, but from that point onward it won't be about the tech in the box under your TV, it will be about the tech server side, which will be upgraded when games demand more from it. there WILL NOT be a PS5 or 6 or 7... In fact, I doubt the next PS branded console will be called PS4. It's likely to reflect this online approach.
why so worried though? PS3 will be around for at least 15 years and the PSCloud will be a powerful machine that gains more power through the internet. it's been on the cards for years, it's just that people can't stop this whole POWER, POWER, POWER mentality. PSN will still exist, but there will be other 'channels' too... which is why (and I mentioned it when we heard what it was called) PSN = Playstation 'NETWORK', a term associated with TV as well as the internet.
Last edited by Gribble-Grunger; 06-27-2012 at 11:40 PM.
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