Wii U Debate Thread

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Oh, I don't mind a new one coming. That's not a defense mechanism. My points are based on more practical measures. I tend to post on a balance of consumer interest and corporate interest. Most people ignore the latter.

Consider this...consumer demand for the Wii is down but even at its lowest point here it sells comparable to the competition and has had only 1 frikkin price cut the whole time. From a corporate standpoint, this thing is still in great shape. And it's a corporate standpoint that a successor will be derived from.

Right.^^ Wii sales are down, but that's only because 90% of the people who wanted one have one by now. It sold at an astronomical rate, but that rate isn't sustainable. Sales are down, but they're still top of the pile.

[Viper]

@Frosty.
I could see maybe a 3D screen peripheral attachment. That way you can buy it separately and enjoy the 3D but if you already have a 3DTV or don't care for the feature, it's not a price burden from the on set. AND it doesn't bulk up the controller.

[frosty]

Yeah, an accessory would be the wiser route to take.

[Segitz]

As for specs, I'd expect this:

1080p standard resolution on ALL games.

3D in 1080p standard for ALL games.

MSAA, etc. for ALL games, even at 1080p.

blu-ray (for movie playback, it makes the most sense and is cheaper than SD cards. plus it's the industry standard for both 2D and 3D HD movies)

802.11n standard, maybe even something new.

new controller that puts all out there to shame both in the standard and motion control arenas.

at least 4GB of RAM

6 core CPU (to beat PS3, it's gonna need it)

GPU that is more powerful than RSX (probably by a good bit, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the CPU able to lend a hand as well like with PS3)

some very fast bandwidth connecting all that together

Solid state HDD, cloud storage/saves as well

If ninty were smart:

cross game chat, invites, join from friends list, no fucking 80 number long "Friend codes", and some sort of pay online service like PS+.

Yay! next gen is coming... now the speculation starts. It's starting to feel like 2004/2005 all over again!

One thing that would make the screen on the controllers work... if it was a 3D screen like that on the 3DS. Then anyone that bought it, regardless of whether or not they have a 3DTV, would be able to enjoy it in 3D.

That spec is gonna push the retail price over 400USD... Imagine PS3 with four times the RAM and a MUCH better GPU. For 1080P with MSAA in 3D (probably 30Hz per Eye, too) you need a FAT GPU. And I mean something akin to ATI 6850 or even more powerful (at least in PC terms).

[Viper]

I did my own BOM earlier tonight and I get about $200 for it.

A $35 (probably $25 for vendor price) already walks all over the PS3 GPU. A $70 GPU is easily several times more powerful. A 6850 in a closed system would just be nasty.

[Segitz]

More powerful is not the question here. If we want "more powerful than PS3 at 4xMSAA 1080P and 3D", you need a LOT more power than RSX. My 8800GTS is already a lot more powerful than RSX, yet anything beyond 1680x1050 (with 2 or 4x MSAA) makes the games unplayable... and that is below 30Hz. For 3D to work you need 60Hz, 30Hz for each eye.

Though, with their recent comments about how they wait for glasses-less 3D, I doubt Nintendo will go with 3D... but on the other hand, TV technology is independent of console tech, as long as the connector (HDMI1.4a) stays the same. So if a glasses-less TV comes out soon, they might still do it.

The other question would be, if they actually need to target 1080P3D, because as of now, 1080P3D only gives you 24Hz per eye, which might not be enough for gaming.

[Viper]

4xMSAA 1080P in a closed system could be done easily with an 8800 GTS. And a modern equivalent to an 8800 GTS would run about $25.

Want something a few levels more powerful, a modern $60 GPU in a closed system would give you plenty.

[Segitz]

Well... the 8800GTS was (back then) the biggest GPU chip ever made. I doubt anyone could produce it at that price. Though I give you that closed system will give it a boost. 1080P with 4xMSAA will need a LOT of RAM for the framebuffer and a lot of bandwidth, though. Twice that if they go for 3D.

[Viper]

Sure it was big, but that's also nVidia's architecture at work there. They are the king of the giant monolithic GPU. Nintendo is in bed with ATi (AMD now) who are known for pushing just as much power from a much smaller die size. The 8800 was 484 mm with 681 million transistors. The HD 6700 series would walk all over it with a die size if just 170 mm and 1.04 billion transistors all for about $60.

As for RAM, did you see what I posted about that already? 4 GB is going for about $38 right now. Probably under $30 from the vendor. More than plenty for 4xMSAA, 1080p @ 60 fps.

[Segitz]

Sure sure... I just put the 8800GTS as a comparison here, as it was released more or less day and date with the PS3 (and since I have one).

[Viper]

Fact is, they'd actually have to try real hard to make a console less powerful than the PS3 because all the vendor components right now are superior. They'd have to specifically order inferior parts which would end up costing more.

[Segitz]

Not necessarily. They can just buy the IP, similar to what MS did, and fab the stuff themselves. It's not the same as with HDDs, where there are basically no rentable fabs that can do this. Chips however, especially older ones, can be made this way. Can Nintendo fab stuff themselves?

Plus, they might even go the ARM route. With parts like Tegra2 and newer, they could surpass the Wii easily and make it a cheaper system, too.

[Luis]

The power should be moderately high, as I think Nintendo will just opt for the best value for their money. That is, the most modern hardware they can afford while making the final product profitable since launch.

The new system could probably feel underpowered compared to the following systems in terms of raw power, but much like the 3DS, they'd implement modern shaders and whatnot that would make graphics appear to be more detailed than what they really are like.

[Viper]

Not necessarily. They can just buy the IP, similar to what MS did, and fab the stuff themselves. It's not the same as with HDDs, where there are basically no rentable fabs that can do this. Chips however, especially older ones, can be made this way. Can Nintendo fab stuff themselves?

Plus, they might even go the ARM route. With parts like Tegra2 and newer, they could surpass the Wii easily and make it a cheaper system, too.

They don't fab anything themselves.

Sony has 168,000 employees.
Nintendo has 4,200.

And I don't see them going ARM or Tegra2. No point in either at all. They'll likely stick with IBM and ATi (AMD). Going ARM and Tegra2 wouldn't even get them to X360/PS3 level and this thing is supposedly going to surpass it.

[Segitz]

Supposedly NGP was as powerful as PS3 too... you know the language they use. Well... I guess this is all speculation anyways...

[SadPanda]

For whatever its worth can we please nix the power brick on the cord? I don't care if it's like the N64 but just put that damned thing in the system.

[Luis]

Supposedly NGP was as powerful as PS3 too... you know the language they use. Well... I guess this is all speculation anyways...

The raw power may not be there, but surely once they start to make the system sing, they'll obtain remarkable results and they'll get close enough. There have to be details and effects that can be recreated in a cheaper way given the more modern hardware.

[Viper]

The raw power may not be there, but surely once they start to make the system sing, they'll obtain remarkable results and they'll get close enough. There have to be details and effects that can be recreated in a cheaper way given the more modern hardware.

This and the PSP2 is using 1/4th the screen resolution (compared to 1080p). PSP2 is not as powerful as a PS3. I'd say not even half as powerful. But what it does have is modern shaders, good texture resolutions and a small, sharp screen. Makes it sorta 'look' like PS3 graphics.

Taking a look at the RSX GPixels (4.4) and comparing that to modern GPU's, even an HD 6570 tops it (5.2) and they don't even sell that on the market. It's an OEM only part for HTPC's.

I just don't see how Nintendo could launch a system that doesn't exceed the PS3 unless they purposefully order components to do so which would probably cost just as much due to economies of scale.

[SadPanda]

Well we all hope that it would be easy to top the PS3 given the time span between the two. Besides if our very own iSupply (viper) can spec a potential machine at $200. They could price it like the Wii at launch ($250) and still be cheeper than the PS3 w/Move or Kinect bundled 360. Toss in motion control superior to Move and or Kinect and thats going to be a really attractive system for those who have a Wii (if BC is confirmed) and no other next gen system (there are a lot of them).

[OmniStalgic]

I say good move by Ninty, Sony and MS don't really need an upgrade as much, (MS do a little with DVD) but in order to not be overshadowed by a "Wii2 hype", they simply need to re-market there system--which can be difficult, but MS did it with a HD camera so

Overall though, this should be a system more tailored to hobbyist gamers with a vastly improved online system, which is always a welcome addition, though I have no interest in picking up a new home console anytime soon with the new handheld releases this year. I'm positive it'll be PS3 powerful and at an affordable price, I don't see why Nintendo would abandon a successful site.