Why this thing won't take off

[Carpetwax]

1. In terms of Marketing, Microsoft is horrible. They do computers, not games. They have no experience in the market of CONSOLE gaming.

2. The games themselves will suck--look at Microsofts attempts at computer games. They always have so much depth [yeah right].

3. Just take a look at Windows! Comon people! Bugs galore! I can see this in XBOX. Sure, it may be a console, but they way it's programmed--it's close to a computer. That means trouble.


4. Price! It's $200 CAN more expensive than Gamecube and doesn't offer that much more [slightly large memory cache + polygon performance and DVDs].

The only thing I regret is that the Gamecube doesn't have DVDs... But this way they can save our wallets.

There's my thoughts.

[Pretendo]

Well only two things your really not on target with...

1) Xbox only uses a kernel version of Windows 2000, which is quite stable. But there are many variables to take into account and the possibility is there.

2) No Xbox is NOT the most powerfull console. Poly counts are raw and there are so many variables to take into account. Everything from the acrhitecture of the GPU's to the ability to layer effects on textures. When it comes to performance it's a neck and neck race, where GameCube has superiority in quite a few areas, over everyone else.

I'm sure Temjin will take care of the rest

[BigSky]

4. Price! It's $200 CAN more expensive than Gamecube and doesn't offer that much more [slightly large memory cache + polygon performance and DVDs].

Idiot, your forgot XBox has a built in HDD and EtherNet Adapter.
not to mention $30 more for a progressive scan dvd player.

GC is for kids like you.

[zmaster]

Originally posted by BigSky
4. Price! It's $200 CAN more expensive than Gamecube and doesn't offer that much more [slightly large memory cache + polygon performance and DVDs].

Idiot, your forgot XBox has a built in HDD and EtherNet Adapter.
not to mention $30 more for a progressive scan dvd player.

GC is for kids like you.

BigSky, you've changed back to your old ways......Anyway, I think he meant the HDD when he said "memory cache". You don't have to call him an idiot, he's just not as informed as you, that does not give you any rights of superiority over him. You say that the GCN is for kids, when you're getting one yourself. I think you just called yourself a child.......

[Carpetwax]

Bigsky:

I forgot about the ethernet--but apparently Nintendo's broadband modem is going to be "market-friendly".. My bad.


I am not the idiot. The idiot is the person who spends huge amounts of money on games. That would be the childish thing, is it not?

It's highly opinionated to say the GCN is for "kids". The only child I see here is you and your immaturity..

[Temjin]

Originally posted by Carpetwax
1. In terms of Marketing, Microsoft is horrible. They do computers, not games. They have no experience in the market of CONSOLE gaming.

Neither did Sony. And their ads were much better than Sega and Nintendo's at that time. Just wait until you see some more advertisements from MS.

2. The games themselves will suck--

How do you know? Have you played them? The majority of people who've played HALO and Oddworld said that they were really great.

look at Microsofts attempts at computer games. They always have so much depth [yeah right].

... Have you played Age of Empires for the PC? Won so many awards... MS isn't bringing this game out for the Xbox, but it shows that they are capable of making some good games. They have a lot of games in development for the Xbox that appeal to console gamers, not PC gamers. So do their 2nd/3rd party developers. Look at the lineup.

3. Just take a look at Windows! Comon people! Bugs galore! I can see this in XBOX. Sure, it may be a console, but they way it's programmed--it's close to a computer. That means trouble.

The Xbox's Win 2k kernal doesn't have to be bothered by all of the things a PC OS does(Drivers, for example). The Xbox will crash just as much as any other console(Hardly ever ).

4. Price! It's $200 CAN more expensive than Gamecube and doesn't offer that much more [slightly large memory cache + polygon performance and DVDs].

Sure it does. The harddrive opens up a lot more to the console gaming universe, and the difference in power will show in certain games from certain developers.

Originally posted by Pretendo
No Xbox is NOT the most powerfull console. Poly counts are raw

The 125mpps number? Thats with 2 texture layers, and add plenty of A.I. and physics to that because its being handled seperately by the P3. ;o So, its not raw exactly, but it can be achieved in a real game... Hey, you'll be playing a PS2 game with a much higher polygon count, when you think about it. The PS2 can only do 2 texture layers I believe.

and there are so many variables to take into account.

Like?... Pretendo, I think its about time we have a lil' debate about this.

Everything from the acrhitecture of the GPU's to the ability to layer effects on textures.

Just to kick it off: Xbox and GCN are both capable of doing 8 texture layers. ^_^;

When it comes to performance it's a neck and neck race, where GameCube has superiority in quite a few areas, over everyone else.

Esplain! Esplain!

[Pretendo]

Originally posted by BigSky
4. Price! It's $200 CAN more expensive than Gamecube and doesn't offer that much more [slightly large memory cache + polygon performance and DVDs].

Uhh?

If your saying XB has a slightly higher memory cache, your wrong big guy. GameCube's CPU/MPU has a full 128KB's more L2 cache than Xbox and PS2. L2 Cache determines how fast your CPU can process code, one of the many reasons why GCN's CPU/MPU is superior to what Xbox has under the hood.

Idiot, your forgot XBox has a built in HDD and EtherNet Adapter.
not to mention $30 more for a progressive scan dvd player.

Idiot? You tend to be the 'idiot' more than anyone else, your room to talk isn't all to big.

BTW GameCube does have quite a few quality games, not to mention a superior controller along with the CHOICE of using a 56K modem or a 10/100 NIC.

BTW you can get a progressive scan DVD-GCN combo for $325

GC is for kids like you.

First off it's GCN, second Xbox is for B class ports and petaphile gamers such as yourself

[gratedragon]

Pretendo, I don't know if I've said this before, but your the smartest person on this forum. Nobody can really argue with you because your knowledge is massive. The day you leave will be a sad one so keep up the good work.

[Sandman]

I know somebody who can argue with him. Temjin. Thats it though.

[BigSky]

Originally posted by BigSky
4. Price! It's $200 CAN more expensive than Gamecube and doesn't offer that much more [slightly large memory cache + polygon performance and DVDs].
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Didn't post that, read the whole thread next time. Thus your specs have been deleted.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Idiot, your forgot XBox has a built in HDD and EtherNet Adapter.
not to mention $30 more for a progressive scan dvd player.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pretender wrote:
Idiot? You tend to be the 'idiot' more than anyone else, your room to talk isn't all to big.
-------------------------

Still makes the original poster no less than an idiot.


Pretneder continues:
BTW GameCube does have quite a few quality games, not to mention a superior controller along with the CHOICE of using a 56K modem or a 10/100 NIC.
--------

Did we not know this already?? Superior controller? Simpler, but superior is something I will find out when I use them. Or did you use both controllers pretender?? Or, which is often the case with you, you are speculating.

---------------------
Pretender must think this is good cause he writes:
BTW you can get a progressive scan DVD-GCN combo for $325
---------------------

Bwwhahahaaa. Thus the GC turns out to be more expensive!!!!




Pretender contiues:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GC is for kids like you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off it's GCN, second Xbox is for B class ports and petaphile gamers such as yourself
---------------------------------------

No, it's GC or gc or ngc.
And it's not petafile, it's pedophile.
Bwwhahhaaaa. !!!!!!!!

You try to hard pretendor and you look stupid doing it.

[Pretendo]

Originally posted by BigSky
Didn't post that, read the whole thread next time. Thus your specs have been deleted.

Why not try quoting next time

Pretender wrote:
Idiot? You tend to be the 'idiot' more than anyone else, your room to talk isn't all to big.
-------------------------

Still makes the original poster no less than an idiot.

I won't sit here and throw around personal arguments go to the Womens Loungeto do that

Pretneder continues:
BTW GameCube does have quite a few quality games, not to mention a superior controller along with the CHOICE of using a 56K modem or a 10/100 NIC.
--------

Did we not know this already?? Superior controller? Simpler, but superior is something I will find out when I use them. Or did you use both controllers pretender?? Or, which is often the case with you, you are speculating.

Lets see, did we not know, Xbox has an NIC?

As for the controller, I haven't heard ANY<u>ONE</u> note they prefer the Xbox controller to anything else. Not speculation, it's based on the opinions of people who've held both

Pretender must think this is good cause he writes:
BTW you can get a progressive scan DVD-GCN combo for $325
---------------------

Bwwhahahaaa. Thus the GC turns out to be more expensive!!!!

Lets see...
Xbox with DVD enabling device- $330+
GameCube-FUSION- $325 adjust inflation for the US and it's about $320

Do tell how you can re-write currency rates

Pretender contiues:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GC is for kids like you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off it's GCN, second Xbox is for B class ports and petaphile gamers such as yourself
---------------------------------------

No, it's GC or gc or ngc.
And it's not petafile, it's pedophile.
Bwwhahhaaaa. !!!!!!!!

You try to hard pretendor and you look stupid doing it.

Ahh thanks for clearing me up, spelling isn't exactly my forté

And it's GCN, GameCube, or GAMECUBE, you obviously don't have a knack for getting things right as a whole. It's Xbox, or XBOX, and you might as well get your facts from Bill Gates himself.

Furthermore, I won't sink down to the level of name calling Mr BigSky, I'd rather not join in on your immature games

Now Temjin's waiting for a response to his mature and full minded post, but it's clear you've been worn down, so it won't be long till 'bye byes'

[Pretendo]

Originally posted by Temjin
The 125mpps number? Thats with 2 texture layers, and add plenty of A.I. and physics to that because its being handled seperately by the P3. ;o So, its not raw exactly, but it can be achieved in a real game... Hey, you'll be playing a PS2 game with a much higher polygon count, when you think about it. The PS2 can only do 2 texture layers I believe.

Sorry about the response time, I've been pretty busy lately

Well could you give me a link on those numbers? No offense, but I'm sure the place where you've got the information can better convey that to me. And still there are no displays capable of actually displaying that much geometry.

Like?... Pretendo, I think its about time we have a lil' debate about this.

Well, take for example the CPU's. PS2 has a hard one to crack, Xbox really has an off the shelf CPU with a modified BIOS for system architecture interface, and GameCube a custom PPC based CPU.

Things such as AI will slow down some consoles more than the other and effectively offset the ability of the entire system to produce more geometry.

Then we have texture layers. Lets say a developer wanted to do a fleet of aircraft carriers, which in the end totaled up to 12,000,000 polys on screen (this isn't an exactly accurate scenario), with 8 layers of textures added for effect, in theory GameCube could run this at 60FPS, Xbox at 30, and PS2 at 7.5. Overall it's extremely hard to explain, it's really something you learn over time.

Just to kick it off: Xbox and GCN are both capable of doing 8 texture layers. ^_^;

So can PS2 but GameCube can do all 8 in a single pass, which would effectively cut the PP/s rate in half.

To lay it out as simple as possible, polygon counts don't count. You don't see PC forums with gamers showing much concern over the amount of triangles per second a certain card can push. Things such as vertex/pixel shaders and FSAA are things they show most concern over. With consoles it's a little different, but the basic promise is just the same.

[johnnyBgood]

Originally posted by Carpetwax
1. In terms of Marketing, Microsoft is horrible. They do computers, not games. They have no experience in the market of CONSOLE gaming.

Neither did Sony my friend, neither did Sony...

2. The games themselves will suck--look at Microsofts attempts at computer games. They always have so much depth [yeah right].

I dunno about Micrsoft's attempts, but I can say you are dumb. MS wont make all the games. Other companies or whatever will. Like Rare does for Nintendo. (Well, not exactly, but you should get my point).

3. Just take a look at Windows! Comon people! Bugs galore! I can see this in XBOX. Sure, it may be a console, but they way it's programmed--it's close to a computer. That means trouble.

Okay, I think you really are nuts. Window's isnt some kind of glitch factory like you portray it as, it's fine, plus, this isn't computers we're talkin about, it's console gaming

[Temjin]

Originally posted by Pretendo
Sorry about the response time, I've been pretty busy lately

Eh, I took pretty darn long to reply as well. So this makes things even.

Well could you give me a link on those numbers? No offense, but I'm sure the place where you've got the information can better convey that to me. And still there are no displays capable of actually displaying that much geometry.

I should've bookmarked it... But it was from an article by Micheal Abrash at ddj.com. I'll give you a direct link later.

Things such as AI will slow down some consoles more than the other and effectively offset the ability of the entire system to produce more geometry.

... When you say "some consoles", you mean the PS2, right? Because it seems as though the Gekko and P3 are doing much less work than the EE does when it comes to AI.

Then we have texture layers. Lets say a developer wanted to do a fleet of aircraft carriers, which in the end totaled up to 12,000,000 polys on screen (this isn't an exactly accurate scenario), with 8 layers of textures added for effect, in theory GameCube could run this at 60FPS, Xbox at 30, and PS2 at 7.5. Overall it's extremely hard to explain, it's really something you learn over time.

If you get the time, please explain this to me.

So can PS2

But not without a huge performance hit. ;o

but GameCube can do all 8 in a single pass, which would effectively cut the PP/s rate in half.

And the Xbox does it in how many passes? 2?

To lay it out as simple as possible, polygon counts don't count. You don't see PC forums with gamers showing much concern over the amount of triangles per second a certain card can push. Things such as vertex/pixel shaders and FSAA are things they show most concern over. With consoles it's a little different, but the basic promise is just the same.

I know. It just seems like people that dont know too much about the specifications of each system base their power on how much geometry they can push.

[shock troop]

Why are the framerates on XBox so crappy?
It has less FPS than a 32 player Half-Life deathmatch on a 56K modem
And why's it so big?
Does it come with attachable legs so you can turn it into a table?
That wouldn't be so bad...

[Temjin]

Originally posted by shock troop
Why are the framerates on XBox so crappy?

The 2nd phase development kits at E3 lacked a dedicated Sound processor, forcing the Pentium 3 to do all the sound processing and doing much more work than it was supposed to be doing. Not only that, but with HALO's Capture the Flag game it was responsible for all the networking as well. This resulted in the bad framerates we all saw at E3. Its not all to blame on the unfinished hardware, though. Some games just weren't optimized for the 2nd phase dev. kits.

The games will be running at a steady framerate at launch, though. Bungie has already confirmed that HALO will be locked at 60fps.

And why's it so big?

All of the extra components. Its not as big as some people try to make it out to be.

Does it come with attachable legs so you can turn it into a table?
That wouldn't be so bad...

A low key bash there... You aint slick, shock troop.

[shock troop]

What? Are you saying that components are bigger? Huh?
If that's so then why are there laptops that weigh 8 pounds that are better than my big old computer that I am sitting in front of?
It should be small!

[Temjin]

Originally posted by shock troop
What? Are you saying that components are bigger? Huh?
If that's so then why are there laptops that weigh 8 pounds that are better than my big old computer that I am sitting in front of?
It should be small!

To be honest, shock troop... I'm not really sure why the Xbox is as big as it is. When I ask around, I get answers along the lines of "Because of all the extra stuff in it". I never really looked into it because I never really cared. The Sega Genesis/Sega CD setup was quite big, but I didn't dwell on it because I was enjoying Sonic CD.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: Dont worry about the size. Worry about the software lineup. There are some nice looking games comin' out for the Xbox this fall. Cant wait for HALO. ;o

[shock troop]

One more question...
Why does Planetside look like Halo's twin brother?

[Temjin]

Originally posted by shock troop
One more question...
Why does Planetside look like Halo's twin brother?

Because it is. I was looking at a couple of screenies and articles about Planetside the other day. HALO still seems better. But I'll try Planetside out when its released.