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View Full Version : what the *ugly word* is Squareenix doing?



Z
12-10-2008, 06:07 AM
they are one of the biggest game publishers in Japan and to an extent in the world. yet, where are their games? all I see are FF spoofs and stupid mobile games. where are their other titles? they always have the ever amazing FF, but you can't convince me that that is the only thing this huge company can make. the only game I see is Last Remnant. that's all? one game? I seriously don't remember any other recent stand alone game they made.

look at all the other devs (both smaller and larger) and you see them release multipe titles annual both sequels and original. but not SE. it feels like they are tking an extremely long and expensive vacation...

Red_Eyes
12-10-2008, 06:27 AM
SE as well as all those other small Japaness developers need to utilize the PSN. If they can not afford to do a full blown game, then do a PSN RPG with 2D graphics. It's that simple! I mean, Chrono Trigger remake should have also been release on the PSN too. And all their other remakes.

Look, the PSN is there for all those developers making small games that are going to the Wii or DS. Instead of just releasing them on the Wii or DS, release them on the PSN too. Make more money that way.

Like Konami, if they can not afford a full blown next gen Suikoden game with next gen graphics on Blu-Ray, then they should just release a PSN Suikoden game, with 2D graphics. People would love that, seeing as Suikoden have never been about the graphics.

When the cost is too high, PSN is the way, and Japanese developers need to start utilizing that or face extinction.

LaLiLuLeLo
12-10-2008, 06:35 AM
They're too busy giving Tetsuya Nomura piggy back rides to get anything done.

Greg
12-10-2008, 06:38 AM
They just announced Dragon Quest X for the Wii. That does help you PS3 guys that don't have Wiis but hey they are making other games.

TrueVCU
12-10-2008, 06:42 AM
but hey they are making other games.

Not sure it counts if all of them are FFXIII

saud264
12-10-2008, 06:42 AM
http://blog.ugo.com/images/uploads/yoichiwada.JPG

and

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc48/BillAurion/Videogames/teammegaton.jpg

Z
12-10-2008, 07:57 AM
SE as well as all those other small Japaness developers need to utilize the PSN
while I agree about digital distribution, SE is definitely not a small publisher. they rank among the ten biggest games publishers in the world and, iirc, among the top five in Japan.


but hey they are making other games.
what are they? I am talking about any game on consoles or PC. they only seem to make handheld spin offs and that's it. I don't expect them to make FF level games, but make ANY game. I remember at the very very early days of PS2 there were at least to PS2 games (probably even launch games) from the; the wrestling game and that S Type racing game. the final years before PS3 launched I remember them making the Musashi series.

these aren't necessarily good games or bad games, but they are something. now, it seems like they are only making main FF games and spinn offs on PSP/DS and that is it.

can anybody mention any games they are making on consoles other than FF12 and perhaps DQ10 that came out since the last two years or in the future? I can only think of just one; Last Remnant....

Greg
12-10-2008, 08:12 AM
Yeah that "but" in my post should have been a "so" as in to say they are making other games besides FF games as in Dragon Quest X.

Hisham
12-10-2008, 08:26 AM
They are making DS games because Japan is crazy about handhelds and DS is the highest selling one...

Freeman_JI
12-10-2008, 08:33 AM
They are making DS games because Japan is crazy about handhelds and DS is the highest selling one...
Yeah what this guy said.

Segitz
12-10-2008, 10:40 AM
Yes, but while ignoring a large community, that is the PS brand... I mean, except some remakes and Crisis Core there is nothing here (I still have my doubts about Dissidia).

There's been NO PS3 game, 2 or so 360 games (FFXI and LR) and also only one or two Wii games (that Wiiware title and maybe another one, I dunno).

If they can't get stuff out, they should just at least release their PS1 games on PSN outside of Japan for gods sake!

Hisham
12-10-2008, 11:13 AM
Well to be fair, they are making PSP games too. Just more DS games because the DS is what is selling.

But I have never liked Square RPG's that much anyways. There were always better choices. Like Nippon-Ichi, Atlus (MegaTen series is always good), and even Sega RPG's were better IMO.

Z
12-10-2008, 11:18 AM
There's been NO PS3 game, 2 or so 360 games (FFXI and LR) and also only one or two Wii games (that Wiiware title and maybe another one, I dunno).
true. I don't believe they ever had such a drought on consoles before...


They are making DS games because Japan is crazy about handhelds and DS is the highest selling one...
perhaps, but the reason why excluded handhelds from my OP is that these projects are fairly cheap to make with little staff numbers. but even then, are they making original or true sequels or just re-rehashes?

Xclusion
12-10-2008, 12:04 PM
ps3
FFXIII
FFvsXIII
MMORPG* (I think)

360
Final Fantasy XI
Last Remnant
Infinite Undiscovery

Psp
Dissidia
Crisis Core
Last Birthday
Kingdom Hearts

DS
Final Fantasy tactics a2
The World ends with you
Kingdom Hearts

not to mention remakes/rehashes of Chrono Trigger, FFVI, and Star Ocean and Dragon Quest.

They're actually doing a lot.

You have to realize that Square bread and butter are rpg's no company can churn out rpg's at a yearly pace.

yoshaw
12-10-2008, 12:20 PM
Too many boats ... too many pies... know where I'm getting at?

TEEDA
12-10-2008, 12:53 PM
They ' re certainly too busy trying to finish up and build up all their " Fabula Nova Crystalis " titles....
Even Final fantasy VII : Advent Children complete has not been released yet... And journalist still asking if they were going to make a remake and they were always teasing " that has been thought , but we' re studying the posibilities "...

Now They are basing their R&D in EU and US implementing new western teams...I don't know if those will provide RPs or will focus on more " westernal games "

I don't really care about other genres ( fighting, action, sports, racing ) being
multiplateform but man....making rpgs multiplateform, I just don't know I was n t used to it.

The last Sony's rpg I played was Popolocrois 3.

But i really lost expectations in Square Enix and I don't really like their new Pr.
Even Nomura If I remeber has a grudge against him.

Z
12-10-2008, 01:13 PM
ps3
FFXIII
FFvsXIII
MMORPG* (I think)

360
Final Fantasy XI
Last Remnant
Infinite Undiscovery

Psp
Dissidia
Crisis Core
Last Birthday
Kingdom Hearts

DS
Final Fantasy tactics a2
The World ends with you
Kingdom Hearts
so only three games (one of which is a port) on consoles for the past few years? you have specific development teams that make a game or two annually for consoles- e.g. Rare and Insomniac. I won't even mention other publisher's work- even Japanese.

Xer0
12-10-2008, 03:54 PM
SE as well as all those other small Japaness developers need to utilize the PSN. If they can not afford to do a full blown game, then do a PSN RPG with 2D graphics. It's that simple! I mean, Chrono Trigger remake should have also been release on the PSN too. And all their other remakes.



You're kidding yourself if you think they are going to release Chrono Trigger on the PSN, which at most they'll get 15 a pop for, when they can sell it for $40 on the DS. The DS, and the PSP for that mater, are going to allow them to charge more for a game.

As for Square, meh. Its about time that they make something that isn't an RPG and their recent titles haven't been the greatest either. They need to branch out and diversify more.

Dakota Grabowski
12-10-2008, 03:58 PM
ps3
FFXIII
FFvsXIII
MMORPG* (I think)

360
Final Fantasy XI
Last Remnant
Infinite Undiscovery

Psp
Dissidia
Crisis Core
Last Birthday
Kingdom Hearts

DS
Final Fantasy tactics a2
The World ends with you
Kingdom Hearts

not to mention remakes/rehashes of Chrono Trigger, FFVI, and Star Ocean and Dragon Quest.

They're actually doing a lot.

You have to realize that Square bread and butter are rpg's no company can churn out rpg's at a yearly pace.

Final Fantasy XIII is coming to the 360 along with their MMORPG -- not sure why you didn't include them. Also, add in Star Ocean 4 and Project Sylpheed already came out for the 360 too, though that's not an RPG.

As for Square-Enix, they've suffered at the hands of Sony's and Microsoft's HD video games thus their games are much larger in size, much harder to create, and need larger teams to work on them. It's Sony's own fault (along with Microsoft's) for the development time on games for the consoles. The PS2 could churn out sequels at a yearly rate... but the PS3 doesn't have that luxury as of right now.

The only franchise that is up in the air is Kingdom Hearts for the consoles. Whoever gets that (probably the Wii) will have a huge franchise for their console.

It's already apparent that Square-Enix won't stay platform exclusive anymore, so the only question left is where the rest of their RPG pieces fall for the consoles as Dragon Quest went to the Wii and Star Ocean 4 went to the 360.

Kingdom Hearts, Mana series, Front Mission, Valkyrie Profile and the SaGa series are what's currently left to shell out unless they plan on reviving Parasite Eve and Chrono.

Segitz
12-10-2008, 05:39 PM
As for Square-Enix, they've suffered at the hands of Sony's and Microsoft's HD video games thus their games are much larger in size, much harder to create, and need larger teams to work on them. It's Sony's own fault (along with Microsoft's) for the development time on games for the consoles. The PS2 could churn out sequels at a yearly rate... but the PS3 doesn't have that luxury as of right now.

I've nearly had it with you...

Why on Odins green earth should it be Sonys or MSs fault that Square cannot pull their shit together and get the development going? I mean, FFXIII was at first supposed to be a freaking PS2 title... I mean, it now has been nearly 3 years ever since FFXII (which was delayed beyond belief, so work on XIII was surely already quite advanced at that stage) and they haven't even bothered to show us GAMEFOOTAGE.

Don't tell me games like GTA or MGS are less complex to create than FF games.

And, yearly sequels on PS2 is an EA phenomena (some some others). I mean, there were a grand total of 2.5 FF games on PS2 (XI was different and never released in Europe on PS2)... Not 7 or 8 annual games.

AC!D
12-10-2008, 06:03 PM
Lets face it guys at the end of the day it all comes down to the big man at the helm. Just look at how Phil Harrison has turned around Atari. He announced Ghostbusters, Riddick and the Witcher all of which im getting unless they get really crap reviews. Before that i cant even remember the last time i purtchased an Atari game.

So in conclusion we can all Blame YOICHI WADA! He is a freaking joke! He took money from MS to delay the release of FF13 so that they can release the X-box version along with it at launch at the expense of FF fans worldwide. That says it all really. A big F**K YOU to the fans. He paid EPIC for ther Unreal engine middleware used to speed up game development where clearly rpg's dont work on UE3 at the expense of quality product assurance for the fans. Did you guys actually see the pathetic excuse for a dragon quest game they released on the Wii that uses motion controls i think it was an 8 hour rpg!!! Also how many more freaking remakes do we have to suffer for the likes of DQ 1-5 AND FF1-5. Freaking hell spread your resources on new IP please and exactly how many games do you have Nomura working on i mean let the guy concentrate on one for now please!

Rockmond
12-10-2008, 06:16 PM
http://blog.ugo.com/images/uploads/yoichiwada.JPG

and

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc48/BillAurion/Videogames/teammegaton.jpg

pretty much.

cliffbo
12-10-2008, 06:17 PM
they also went on record recently saying they were thinking of making a FF7 for the PS3 but decided against it... i can smell money here

AC!D
12-10-2008, 06:35 PM
they also went on record recently saying they were thinking of making a FF7 for the PS3 but decided against it... i can smell money here

Did you hear their excuse when asked why FFXI wasnt considered for PS3?
They said the guy that worked at Sony whom they approached had quit his job at Sony so nothing transpired. Imagine if the guy whom square was dealing with at Sony for FF13 suddenly quite... Would they just leave it? Utterly pathetic!

cliffbo
12-10-2008, 06:49 PM
Did you hear their excuse when asked why FFXI wasnt considered for PS3?
They said the guy that worked at Sony whom they approached had quit his job at Sony so nothing transpired. Imagine if the guy whom square was dealing with at Sony for FF13 suddenly quite... Would they just leave it? Utterly pathetic!

money! Sony help them out when they had financial problems following less than stellar profits from their FF film and how do they repay Sony? Level-5 for me

Dakota Grabowski
12-10-2008, 07:37 PM
I've nearly had it with you...

Why on Odins green earth should it be Sonys or MSs fault that Square cannot pull their shit together and get the development going? I mean, FFXIII was at first supposed to be a freaking PS2 title... I mean, it now has been nearly 3 years ever since FFXII (which was delayed beyond belief, so work on XIII was surely already quite advanced at that stage) and they haven't even bothered to show us GAMEFOOTAGE.

Don't tell me games like GTA or MGS are less complex to create than FF games.

And, yearly sequels on PS2 is an EA phenomena (some some others). I mean, there were a grand total of 2.5 FF games on PS2 (XI was different and never released in Europe on PS2)... Not 7 or 8 annual games.

You've nearly had it with me? errmmmm. ok?

Um, it's Microsoft and Sony's fault for developing consoles that Japanese developers are struggling to adapt to. It's not the Japanese's fault for the complex hardware they have to develop on. The only fault that theirs is their inability to understand it after 4 or so years for the 360 and PS3.

So there you go, I hope you understand the situation

Z
12-10-2008, 08:32 PM
it's Microsoft and Sony's fault for developing consoles that Japanese developers are struggling to adapt to
that didn't stop other Jap devs from releasing multiple current gen console games (most notably Capcom). also, this isn't an excuse for what we see from the Japs lagging behind in the tech department this time around.

cliffbo
12-10-2008, 09:02 PM
You've nearly had it with me? errmmmm. ok?

Um, it's Microsoft and Sony's fault for developing consoles that Japanese developers are struggling to adapt to. It's not the Japanese's fault for the complex hardware they have to develop on. The only fault that theirs is their inability to understand it after 4 or so years for the 360 and PS3.

So there you go, I hope you understand the situation

poor poor devs... you got to feel sorry for them really, haven't you. i mean, God forbid we move away from sprites and 16K... how would they cope. i'm looking at you Guerilla

Red_Eyes
12-10-2008, 10:42 PM
You've nearly had it with me? errmmmm. ok?

Um, it's Microsoft and Sony's fault for developing consoles that Japanese developers are struggling to adapt to. It's not the Japanese's fault for the complex hardware they have to develop on. The only fault that theirs is their inability to understand it after 4 or so years for the 360 and PS3.

So there you go, I hope you understand the situation

It's the Japanese's fault for not being up to date with the newest technology. Most of them still do not know that bump mapping and shaders exist.

Capcom is the few Japanese dev that are up to date, which is why Capcom is so successful this gen. And Capcom actually utilize the PSN, making them even more profit.

Red_Eyes
12-10-2008, 10:48 PM
You're kidding yourself if you think they are going to release Chrono Trigger on the PSN, which at most they'll get 15 a pop for, when they can sell it for $40 on the DS. The DS, and the PSP for that mater, are going to allow them to charge more for a game.

As for Square, meh. Its about time that they make something that isn't an RPG and their recent titles haven't been the greatest either. They need to branch out and diversify more.
Why release it only on the DS when they could release on the PSN too and make more money? Because the President of SE is an idiot.

Dakota Grabowski
12-10-2008, 10:54 PM
poor poor devs... you got to feel sorry for them really, haven't you. i mean, God forbid we move away from sprites and 16K... how would they cope. i'm looking at you Guerilla

The disparity Western developers and Eastern developers is easy to see... if you refuse to see it, then so be it. Only a few Japanese teams have actually pushed forward and been able to work excellently with both HD next-gen consoles (namely: Kojima Productions, Team Ninja, and the whole camp over at Capcom).

Square-Enix and many studios are having troubles transitioning to next-gen. Case in point, Atlus is still throwing hit after hit on the PS2 rather than bogging down and putting in long development time on the PS3/Xbox 360 with a new title. Capcom

The Japanese consumers haven't looked to HD or online as the way of the future in the past 5 years and I don't reckon that's going to change over night.


The technology base has shifted from Japan to the US and Europe... There are also talented people, engineers... in the US and Europe, and it's relatively easy to form a large team that required to create this generation of games... That's not the case in Japan. Because they don't have a large base, like the movie industry; there aren't [a lot of people] in the high end of computer graphics. That's making the many great developers in Japan make slow progress. - Sony Computer Entertainment exec Shuhei Yoshida


“It’s amazing that some teams like Kojima-san’s team and Polyphony Digital are still creating such immense games,” he said. “But that’s not [indicative] of the core Japanese software industry, unfortunately.” - Yoshida


"[The U.S teams'] graphical and technical ability is amazing," he says. "There's a huge gap, actually. They're very advanced. I'm Japanese, and I think this is not just with Silent Hill but with the whole of the industry -- I look at what American developers are doing and I think wow ... Japan is in trouble." - Konami's Akira Yamaoka, producer of Silent Hill: Homecoming


It's almost too late. During the Famicom (NES) era, Japanese video games comprised 70 percent of all video games. And currently, it's like 15 or 20 percent, isn't it? Now, Western games are more advanced. For games like GTAIV, those guys are spending something like 5 or 10 years to make them. Even if we thought about catching up with them now, they'd still be making progress. But, not necessarily giving up, it's just not possible to catch up in a single lifetime. - Game Republic chief Yoshiki Okamoto.


when you think about the future of video games, I think that you need to take some risks to move on forward. Once you halt, it's really hard to go [back on track] and take steps forward. Unfortunately, overseas game production companies, which are well-funded and extremely skilled, have surpassed us by a couple of steps. It was once said that Japan molded the world's video game [industry], but that's becoming a thing of the past. Sad as it may be, it's the truth. - Hideo Kojima

The list goes on and with the quotes provided, I can answer this quasi-question from Segitz "Don't tell me games like GTA or MGS are less complex to create than FF games.

- The difference between GTA / MGS and FF is that FF doesn't have the team capable of keeping up with the best tech-savvy developers nowadays.

cliffbo
12-10-2008, 11:10 PM
yes i do see it, but you can't blame MS and Sony for that.

Dakota Grabowski
12-10-2008, 11:15 PM
yes i do see it, but you can't blame MS and Sony for that.

I don't blame MS or Sony for the sluggish Japanese development. I blame them for not creating architecture that was more accessible by the Japanese developers. Sure, they don't have to consider these Japanese developers since it seems they are the way of the past, but being considerate when it comes to technology would've been nice enough so the japanese developers didn't continue to be left behind in the last generation.

Xer0
12-10-2008, 11:20 PM
Why release it only on the DS when they could release on the PSN too and make more money? Because the President of SE is an idiot.

If they released it on PSN (or LIVE or VC) then they couldnt charge you $40 for it. And, since they would probably end up charging you $10, the average price for an SNES game, no one would buy the $40 DS version.

Regaurdless, I'd agree with the president being an idiot, I dont like much of anything SE has made lately.

cliffbo
12-10-2008, 11:28 PM
I don't blame MS or Sony for the sluggish Japanese development. I blame them for not creating architecture that was more accessible by the Japanese developers. Sure, they don't have to consider these Japanese developers since it seems they are the way of the past, but being considerate when it comes to technology would've been nice enough so the japanese developers didn't continue to be left behind in the last generation.

what the hell do you mean? what would be an architecture that suits the Japanese? either you pay the money and learn the damn thing or you suffer in the long term. i'm sure that Level-5 have learned... but that's probably because they recognise where Sony are headed and were willing to think about the long term and not the short term. EA are suffering because of that too and Square. short-termism is also going to effect Rockstar.

are you saying that the instructions are in English instead of Japanese? lol

Dakota Grabowski
12-10-2008, 11:39 PM
what the hell do you mean? what would be an architecture that suits the Japanese? either you pay the money and learn the damn thing or you suffer in the long term. i'm sure that Level-5 have learned... but that's probably because they recognise where Sony are headed and were willing to think about the long term and not the short term. EA are suffering because of that too and Square. short-termism is also going to effect Rockstar.

are you saying that the instructions are in English instead of Japanese? lol

Please refrain from slander against the Japanese devs. It's a fact that the PS3 is/was hard to develop for. It's a fact that many Japanese developers are/were having a hard time with the Unreal Engine 3.0.

EA is suffering because they didn't commit to the Wii and instead focused on the PS3/360. No need to spin that for whatever reason you have.

You probably don't understand what the word architecture means as you go off on a tangent about instructions.

Not only is Square-Enix "suffering" but so is Sony since obviously you many of you are pissing and moaning about the lack of S-E games on the PS3. Sony went with the "long term" plan rather than the "short term" and thus are suffering the consequences of delayed development schedules by S-E.

You need to zone in and realize that much of the problems are both on Sony's and Square-Enix's fault. Sony for the difficult hardware and Square-Enix for the lack of skilled men/women.

cliffbo
12-10-2008, 11:43 PM
Please refrain from slander against the Japanese devs. It's a fact that the PS3 is/was hard to develop for. It's a fact that many Japanese developers are/were having a hard time with the Unreal Engine 3.0.

EA is suffering because they didn't commit to the Wii and instead focused on the PS3/360. No need to spin that for whatever reason you have.

You probably don't understand what the word architecture means as you go off on a tangent about instructions.

Not only is Square-Enix "suffering" but so is Sony since obviously you many of you are pissing and moaning about the lack of S-E games on the PS3. Sony went with the "long term" plan rather than the "short term" and thus are suffering the consequences of delayed development schedules by S-E.

You need to zone in and realize that much of the problems are both on Sony's and Square-Enix's fault. Sony for the difficult hardware and Square-Enix for the lack of skilled men/women.

it's at this point i realize your age. that is a pathetic point to try and score.

Sony built for the future. get over it

Segitz
12-10-2008, 11:44 PM
I don't blame MS or Sony for the sluggish Japanese development. I blame them for not creating architecture that was more accessible by the Japanese developers. Sure, they don't have to consider these Japanese developers since it seems they are the way of the past, but being considerate when it comes to technology would've been nice enough so the japanese developers didn't continue to be left behind in the last generation.

So, what do you suggest they should've done? I pixelshaderless polygonmonster, were games look like two PS2s duct taped together?

The problem was, that PC gaming in Japan is more or less nonexistant. So, our advanced GPUs ect. were not used in japanese game development! It's that "simple".

They sort of deserve to get left behind, if they can't get up to speed. It's been the same with other companys in other industries. They just can't rest on their laurels.

But it's interesting to see it... Games like FFXII were some of the best looking games last generation, but for now, SEs games look really bland by comparison (not bad, just not top of the range, as they used to). Kojimas games last generation were some of the best looking and are again on the PS3 some of the best again. In surely less development time than what FFXIII will take.

Dakota Grabowski
12-10-2008, 11:46 PM
it's at this point i realize your age. that is a pathetic point to try and score.

Sony built for the future. get over it

No need to be an idiot. Sony built for the future and Square-Enix hasn't been able to take a hold of this console like they have been able to with previous Sony consoles. Thus, Sony is suffering and now, that's something to get over.

Dakota Grabowski
12-10-2008, 11:49 PM
So, what do you suggest they should've done? I pixelshaderless polygonmonster, were games look like two PS2s duct taped together?

The problem was, that PC gaming in Japan is more or less nonexistant. So, our advanced GPUs ect. were not used in japanese game development! It's that "simple".

They sort of deserve to get left behind, if they can't get up to speed. It's been the same with other companys in other industries. They just can't rest on their laurels.

But it's interesting to see it... Games like FFXII were some of the best looking games last generation, but for now, SEs games look really bland by comparison (not bad, just not top of the range, as they used to). Kojimas games last generation were some of the best looking and are again on the PS3 some of the best again. In surely less development time than what FFXIII will take.

Yes, but this is correlation to everyone's demand for Square-Enix games. I, for one, agree to leave them behind. But in face of nostalgia, like many of you are receiving with the lack of S-E games, there's a little part of me that wishes Sony toned it down a notch so S-E could catch up.

cliffbo
12-10-2008, 11:57 PM
'Gosh'. lol... that's actually cute. look, Sony had to move things forward. it always takes devs a few years to come to terms with the architecture of a new machine. it was the same with the PS2. you can either make games for the 360 and hope you can port it, or you can develop for the PS3 first and do what you can with the 360. if you opt for a machine with less power/options, it's your damn fault.

Hisham
12-11-2008, 12:01 AM
...

I think what Dakota is trying to say is if you want Square Enix to be making more games for next gen, you shouldn't complain when they have been left behind because of how Japanese game development is...

Just leave them behind like they should be left behind... Catch up or be left dead lol.

Don't complain when they move to more familar archetecture like the Wii, DS and PSP... Sony put them in that postion because of how Japanese game development is... This is the reason why Capcom and Konami are probably 2 of the only developers that have my respect because they have been keeping up with technology while the rest of Japan is being left behind.

JasonXe
12-11-2008, 12:03 AM
Final Fantasy XIII is coming to the 360 along with their MMORPG -- not sure why you didn't include them. Also, add in Star Ocean 4 and Project Sylpheed already came out for the 360 too, though that's not an RPG.

I remember playing Project Sylpheed. It was pretty ok game (http://xboxevolved.e-mpire.com/article/Project_Sylpheed/3975.html).

Also the mmorpg everyone is talking about it is Rapture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI_II).

cliffbo
12-11-2008, 12:06 AM
...

I think what Dakota is trying to say is if you want Square Enix to be making more games for next gen, you shouldn't complain when they have been left behind because of how Japanese game development is...

Just leave them behind like they should be left behind... Catch up or be left dead lol.

Don't complain when they move to more familar archetecture like the Wii, DS and PSP... Sony put them in that postion because of how Japanese game development is... This is the reason why Capcom and Konami are probably 2 of the only developers that have my respect because they have been keeping up with technology while the rest of Japan is being left behind.

oh. in that case i apologise to Dakota. i suppose the problem is that i just join in sometimes and in reality i don't care what SE does from now on anyway. i recently played FF12 and KH2... boring to be honest.

Dakota Grabowski
12-11-2008, 12:10 AM
oh. in that case i apologise to Dakota. i suppose the problem is that i just join in sometimes and in reality i don't care what SE does from now on anyway. i recently played FF12 and KH2... boring to be honest.

i'll agree to that, KH2 and FF 12 bored me to tears.

Japanese devs this gen that I adore include majority of Capcom (their doing great with both their DVD and DL titles) and Kojima. There are others, but I don't want to think of every one of them lol.

Red_Eyes
12-11-2008, 12:54 AM
If they released it on PSN (or LIVE or VC) then they couldnt charge you $40 for it. And, since they would probably end up charging you $10, the average price for an SNES game, no one would buy the $40 DS version.

Regaurdless, I'd agree with the president being an idiot, I dont like much of anything SE has made lately.

If you have a DS, u would buy it for the DS. If you have a PS3, buy 4 PSN, if u have both, buy cheaper one. Most likely DS user doesn't have a PS3.

Red_Eyes
12-11-2008, 01:02 AM
It's not Sony or Microsoft's fault. If Capcom can do it, the Japs can too. And if it cost too much, then use the PSN or Xbox Market.

AC!D
12-11-2008, 01:03 AM
I really dont get where this argument that Japanese devs are behind in this current HD gen is coming from. Sega has released tons of games and RPG's, Namco has released tons of HD games and tons of RPG's, Level 5 are releasing a massive single/multiplyer co-op rpg in a few weeks, Capcom have released tons of HD games, Konami has, Tecmo has released a few games themselves and all of those companies have released a couple of million sellers except Square.

If those companies can do it then why not square one of the biggest if not the biggest game publisher in Japan? Not because its freaking Sony's fault because of its architecture or Microsoft going HD. Its because of freaking bad decisions from their president like putting new IP's on Unreal when they have their own crystal tools set, putting rpg's that would sell great in Japan exclusivley on a console that hasnt even sold a million in Japan where those rpg's would normally sell like hotcakes and remaking every single one of their back catalogue of games instead of focusing resources on whats more important FF13, Dragon quest and FFversus 13. Square are losing site of what their fans want and looking toward the next big payday instead of keeping their best ppl at square and making that quality product that ppl like myself were proud to buy once upon a time.

Ae you telling me they have enough money to buy Eidos and Tecmo but cant keep up with Sony's architecture or generation HD. What a freaking joke. Thats the worst argument ive ever heard in my life.

Dakota Grabowski
12-11-2008, 01:18 AM
I really dont get where this argument that Japanese devs are behind in this current HD gen is coming from. Sega has released tons of games and RPG's, Namco has released tons of HD games and tons of RPG's, Level 5 are releasing a massive single/multiplyer co-op rpg in a few weeks, Capcom have released tons of HD games, Konami has, Tecmo has released a few games themselves and all of those companies have released a couple of million sellers except Square.

If those companies can do it then why not square one of the biggest if not the biggest game publisher in Japan? Not because its freaking Sony's fault because of its architecture or Microsoft going HD. Its because of freaking bad decisions from their president like putting new IP's on Unreal when they have their own crystal tools set, putting rpg's that would sell great in Japan exclusivley on a console that hasnt even sold a million in Japan where those rpg's would normally sell like hotcakes and remaking every single one of their back catalogue of games instead of focusing resources on whats more important FF13, Dragon quest and FFversus 13. Square are losing site of what their fans want and looking toward the next big payday instead of keeping their best ppl at square and making that quality product that ppl like myself were proud to buy once upon a time.

Ae you telling me they have enough money to buy Eidos and Tecmo but cant keep up with Sony's architecture or generation HD. What a freaking joke. Thats the worst argument ive ever heard in my life.

Obviously you haven't been keeping up with the thread nor have you read countless Japanese developers agree that Japanese Developers are falling behind. Please go back a page and you'll see even Kojima stating Japanese developers are far behind Western developers now.

You have no valid claim on Sega -- they haven't released anything worthwhile outside of Virtua Fighter 5 nor have they developed a successful new franchise outside of Yakuza. Tecmo is piss poor and have been stagnant for awhile outside of Team Ninja and that ship has sunk already. Level 5's success with WKC is to be seen. Namco has been all right but they've struggled with Unreal 3.0 engine (i.e. Frame City Killer) and have yet to strike gold in both quality and sales (SCIV was mediocre at best, Tales of Vesperia hasn't sold nearly enough, Ace Combat/Ridge Racer/Katamari/Culdcept aren't entirely hot packages either) so all they have left right now is Tekken 6 though their DL content is turning out to be better than expected.

So once again, Kojima Studios and Capcom are the only devs really making use of the HD hardware. Still, read the quotes and then tell me that your opinion hasn't changed.

And as for the argument about money to buy Tecmo and Eidos, that has no relevance to the subject. Square-Enix's money isn't related to their tech problems, it's their men behind the games not the men behind the business plans.

cliffbo
12-11-2008, 01:20 AM
it's still not Sony's fault though! it's their fault for not investing. Ac!d is right

Hisham
12-11-2008, 01:29 AM
It isn't anybodies fault really... They were alienated by the HD machines, so they went elsewhere. And that elsewhere is the Wii, DS and PSP... It also doesn't help when the incentive isn't there to work on the other two systems over handhelds or the Wii...

So it is nobodies fault really... Just business as ususal. Square Enix is catering to the largest market by downsizing efforts on the 360 and PS3... And it doesn't help that those systems are not as easy to make games for, and they push development costs very high... I really think if FFXIII hadn't got multiplat, it probably would not have made back the initial investment cost in creating the game...

Dakota Grabowski
12-11-2008, 01:39 AM
I really thing if FFXIII hadn't got multiplat, it probably would not have made back the initial investment cost in creating the game...

probably true

OmniStalgic
12-11-2008, 02:18 AM
probably trueno doubt true lol...It's one of the few RPGs' that is actually impressive looking, indicating there's some strong tech behind the engine. (Valkyrie Chronicles looks beautiful though SRPG)

Overall I agree with Dakota and Hisham. I don't think any of us can say who's fault it is for the RPG drought, and casual experiences on Wii. (to be fair many of the DS RPG"s aren't casual or gimped, just very very old-school and graphically unimpressive, and might not hold your attention like they used to) I honestly didn't care that much for DQ, it would have been nice, but if the money's not there, it's just not there to do a full-blown HD DQ:shrug: I believe the last few are still very traditional anyway--so I probably wouldn't have even bought it.

FF13 on the box is fine, It should really have been established though, that PS3 is the leading platform, there using Blu-ray to it's potential, or something along those lines. Outside of fanboyism, I think the majority of fans just thought the game was gimped because of 360's format. RPG's were the genre most talked about benefiting from all the storage. I'm sure money had a lot to do with it, but it was just a big WIN for 360 and a big LOSS for PS3. In fact, I still don't know if this is even cleared up yet:shrug: That win/loss scene would have a been a much easier pill to swallow if SE assured fans FF13 would be the same powerhouse RPG as it always is--even if it was smoke.

I still think RPG's are gonna pop up on PSN though...I think Trine will be a good start...You could even break the game up into chapters for a cheaper price;)

AC!D
12-11-2008, 12:48 PM
Obviously you haven't been keeping up with the thread nor have you read countless Japanese developers agree that Japanese Developers are falling behind. Please go back a page and you'll see even Kojima stating Japanese developers are far behind Western developers now.

You have no valid claim on Sega -- they haven't released anything worthwhile outside of Virtua Fighter 5 nor have they developed a successful new franchise outside of Yakuza. Tecmo is piss poor and have been stagnant for awhile outside of Team Ninja and that ship has sunk already. Level 5's success with WKC is to be seen. Namco has been all right but they've struggled with Unreal 3.0 engine (i.e. Frame City Killer) and have yet to strike gold in both quality and sales (SCIV was mediocre at best, Tales of Vesperia hasn't sold nearly enough, Ace Combat/Ridge Racer/Katamari/Culdcept aren't entirely hot packages either) so all they have left right now is Tekken 6 though their DL content is turning out to be better than expected.

So once again, Kojima Studios and Capcom are the only devs really making use of the HD hardware. Still, read the quotes and then tell me that your opinion hasn't changed.

And as for the argument about money to buy Tecmo and Eidos, that has no relevance to the subject. Square-Enix's money isn't related to their tech problems, it's their men behind the games not the men behind the business plans.


I dont know what you are smoking bud but Sega have released Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter, Virtua tennis, Football Manager 2009 and many ppls game of the year Valkyria Chronicles. Yakuza 3 looks just as good as any game ive seen on PS3 except for maybe Killzone and Uncharted and thats expected isnt it. Next year Sega are publishing Alpha Protocol from Obsidian and Aliens FPS and an Aliens RPG from Obsidian further down the line along with Yakuza 3.

Namco's problem is the same as squares they have been releasing all their games as exclusives on 360 in Japan which is stupid if they launched simultaneously on both consoles Eternal Sonata, Tales and Ace combat would have sold a million easily if they havent already anyway. Just because you say Soul Calibur 4 is shit it doesnt mean the game is bad for the rest of us thats just your opinion and the game has sold millions to prove my point already. Next year they have 2 of my most anticipated games Tekken 6 and and Afro Samurai.

All those interviews you posted from various Japanese Devs talk about having lack of resources and the tech that western devs have and this is true for most but not for Square so your argument falls flat there. Resources = money and money = tech + talent. Square have the money but they lack leadership hence why they suck so stop blaming Sony please. I really dont think Koj was talking about Square when he made those comments. Stop trying to equate squares pathetic turnout on HD platforms with the state of Japanese game development when Square have always been at the forefront leading the charge when it came to technology and game development.

And really guys when we talk about Western developers we are talking about pretty much the entire world except for Japan so are they really doing that bad when we are getting games like WKC, RESI 5, Yakuza 3, FF13 sometime this decade, Bionic Commando, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Street fighter, Siren, GT, Persona, SMT, Afro Samurai, Ace Combat, Dead Rising, Ridge Racer, Lost planet, MGS, Zone of the enders, castlevania, Silent hill, Africa, Virtua Fighter, Mad world, Okami, Bayonetta, Mario, Zelda etc.


Why dont we actually compare country vs country and then we will see who is really behind hey?? Uk vs Japan Maybe?

Dakota Grabowski
12-11-2008, 02:18 PM
I dont know what you are smoking bud but Sega have released Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter, Virtua tennis, Football Manager 2009 and many ppls game of the year Valkyria Chronicles. Yakuza 3 looks just as good as any game ive seen on PS3 except for maybe Killzone and Uncharted and thats expected isnt it. Next year Sega are publishing Alpha Protocol from Obsidian and Aliens FPS and an Aliens RPG from Obsidian further down the line along with Yakuza 3.

The question actually is what are you smoking? Sega Rally stunk, Virtua Tennis stunk and I already mentioned Virtua Fighter so its pointless to bring it up though it didn't move as many units as SEGA would have liked. Same thing with Yakuza, so I don't think you even read my post. As for Football Manager 2009, that's a niche title and I haven't played it; it's not groundbreaking that's for sure. As for Valkyria Chronicles, I haven't played it. None of these title take full advantage of either the 360 or PS3 hardware except for maybe Virtua Fighter.

Alpha Protocol is going to stink (I sat in an interview with the developers for a hands-on impression and it looks like a downgraded Mass Effect with espionage/Splinter Cell elements). and Alien FPS and RPG are a long ways off so you can't include them in the list since you have no idea what they'll look like or how they'll essentially play.



Namco's problem is the same as squares they have been releasing all their games as exclusives on 360 in Japan which is stupid if they launched simultaneously on both consoles Eternal Sonata, Tales and Ace combat would have sold a million easily if they havent already anyway. Just because you say Soul Calibur 4 is shit it doesnt mean the game is bad for the rest of us thats just your opinion and the game has sold millions to prove my point already. Next year they have 2 of my most anticipated games Tekken 6 and and Afro Samurai.

Soul Calibur 4 is no on par with Soul Calibur 2 or Soul Edge, so don't even try to compare it to the great fighting games of the past. So this is being excluded from being a great title on the 360/PS3 without a doubt. It's not just my opinion, it's many people and critics opinions. I already stated Tekken 6 was an anticipated title for 2009, so there you go again being redundant. As for Afro Samurai, Namco is developing but not publishing, so this is why I didn't include it but yes, it looks good too.


All those interviews you posted from various Japanese Devs talk about having lack of resources and the tech that western devs have and this is true for most but not for Square so your argument falls flat there. Resources = money and money = tech + talent. Square have the money but they lack leadership hence why they suck so stop blaming Sony please. I really dont think Koj was talking about Square when he made those comments. Stop trying to equate squares pathetic turnout on HD platforms with the state of Japanese game development when Square have always been at the forefront leading the charge when it came to technology and game development.

My argument does not fall flat. They can buy all the japanese talent they'd like, but it won't help with working on the Unreal 3.0 engine. I won't stop blaming Sony because it's a two-part problem with one being Sony's console architecture being difficult to develop for and the other part being Square's lack of intelligence with it.

I guess you really didn't read those quotes or just brushed them off for whatever reason so you can stick to your guns. Well I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the entire Japanese sector of developers (excluding only a few such as Kojima) are sluggish this generation and have fell behind the West. There's no argument about it so don't even waste your timetrying to prove me otherwise.


And really guys when we talk about Western developers we are talking about pretty much the entire world except for Japan so are they really doing that bad when we are getting games like WKC, RESI 5, Yakuza 3, FF13 sometime this decade, Bionic Commando, Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Street fighter, Siren, GT, Persona, SMT, Afro Samurai, Ace Combat, Dead Rising, Ridge Racer, Lost planet, MGS, Zone of the enders, castlevania, Silent hill, Africa, Virtua Fighter, Mad world, Okami, Bayonetta, Mario, Zelda etc.

This list is retarded. Of them, only Street Fighter, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil 5, Dead Rising, Lost Planet. Bionic Commando (all from Capcom), Metal Gear Solid (Konami), Ninja Gaiden (Tecmo) should be included. Why not list every game that you played as a kid while your at it:spit:.

Okami, Mario, Zelda, Mad World are not in HD. So you once again have lost you way. Mad World wasn't that great at E3 outside of the unusual violence. Bayonetta is a DMC clone, nothing to see here. Zone of the Enders hasn't been touched in several years so its irrelevant. Ridge Racer and Soul Calibur have stunk this generation and Ace Combat was decent. Persona and SMT are still on the PS2, so they are irrelevant to this TECH conversation



Why dont we actually compare country vs country and then we will see who is really behind hey?? Uk vs Japan Maybe?

I'm going to just stick to my original thought that maybe you are nostalgic and won't let go of Japan's old way or maybe your just oblivious, but if you don't recognize how far Japan has fallen, then there's really no saving you at this point since even Japanese developer stating the truth won't make you see the light on the subject.

AC!D
12-11-2008, 03:40 PM
Ok you are right and i am wrong :closed:

BahnNZ
12-11-2008, 03:57 PM
Nah Final Fantasy 12 is universally recognized as being good.


Final Fantasy XII received universally high scores, and earned numerous "Game of the Year" awards in various categories from noted video game publications. Selling more than two million copies in Japan, it became the fourth best-selling PlayStation 2 game of 2006 worldwide. A spin-off, Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, was released for the Nintendo DS in 2007.


Unfortunately it's the last really good thing they did on console and that came out originally 2 and a half years ago.

That's a long time ago.... Think of all the good stuff similarly sized companies have brought out in that time on console.

I think Square have a lot to prove to win back the love. Capcom used to be despised on PS3 now everyone loves them.

Segitz
12-11-2008, 06:23 PM
My argument does not fall flat. They can buy all the japanese talent they'd like, but it won't help with working on the Unreal 3.0 engine. I won't stop blaming Sony because it's a two-part problem with one being Sony's console architecture being difficult to develop for and the other part being Square's lack of intelligence with it.

I still find this argument to be bad (that is why I said "I've had it with you in one of my last posts).

First, others can deal with it easily and second... why then isn't the 360 supported ten times as much? (and, in your last post you included them, now you conveniently dropped them) I doubt, it is the Cell, that is making the problems. I rather think it is the programmable GPU... Shaders and all that stuff is new to Japanese game developers, because, as I said before, PC gaming isn't broad in Japan. So in all essence it is "time" that is at fault here. Ignoring programmable GPUs for the sake of easier development... yeah well NO...

Cell is a bitch, but it isn't "more" bitch, than say programming for the N64, Saturn or whatever VERY complex machine came out of Japan... "They" even said the PS2 was quite a bitch... and look were it got!

cliffbo
12-11-2008, 06:28 PM
Ok you are right and i am wrong :closed:

normally i would put this in the reps:

no, you made perfect sense. it was just being twisted as usual

Dakota Grabowski
12-11-2008, 07:09 PM
I still find this argument to be bad (that is why I said "I've had it with you in one of my last posts).

First, others can deal with it easily and second... why then isn't the 360 supported ten times as much? (and, in your last post you included them, now you conveniently dropped them)


I dropped the 360 from the convo because this a Sony board and I don't want to derail the thread.

As for my argument, I just place myself in their shoes and this is the opinion I have formed. If I was to be working on PS3 kits and much of the team was having a hard time getting things down right, I'd be blaming Sony for not making it developer friendly from the start.

AC!D
12-11-2008, 07:24 PM
normally i would put this in the reps:

no, you made perfect sense. it was just being twisted as usual

Yeah i know its just that when you get into an interesting discussion with someone and they arent even willing to concde the tiniest bit to what you might be saying then you know the conversation is going nowhere and its pointless. One of these days they gonna blame Sony for global warming and the recession :lol:

cliffbo
12-11-2008, 07:27 PM
Yeah i know its just that when you get into an interesting discussion with someone and they arent even willing to concde the tiniest bit to what you might be saying then you know the conversation is going nowhere and its pointless. One of these days they gonna blame Sony for global warming and the recession :lol:

no, the company that has sold most consoles this gen is to blame for global warming, it just makes sense :)

Dakota Grabowski
12-11-2008, 07:36 PM
Yeah i know its just that when you get into an interesting discussion with someone and they arent even willing to concde the tiniest bit to what you might be saying then you know the conversation is going nowhere and its pointless. One of these days they gonna blame Sony for global warming and the recession :lol:

concede on what? I conceded on Afro Samurai, so there you go fella :) But the rest, you cannot compare to the likes of Uncharted, Killzone, LBP, MGS (Konami excluded since Kojima is tech savvy), and stuff from Insomniac.

Give me a Japanese company that can keep up with Epic Games, Valve, id Software, Crytech, etc in terms of developing engines.

Give me a Japanese company that is comparable to Bungie, Infinity Ward, Ubisoft Montreal..

Or maybe let me know which companies are the king of party games? If you don't know, their in the west with Singstar, Rock Band, Guitar Hero. Konami jumped off that boat a long time ago.

We can continue, unless you can provide me legitimate developers outside of Capcom and Kojima Productions that are actually making a real stance in putting forth incredible looking and quality games for the next-gen consoles.

Heck, if you go over to Gamerankings and check out the top 20 games for the PS3/360, you won't see many Japanese developers in those rankings.

And for global warming, I blame Atari for creating E.T. and putting them in landfills across the globe.

Segitz
12-11-2008, 09:50 PM
Give me a Japanese company that can keep up with Epic Games, Valve, id Software, Crytech, etc in terms of developing engines.

And what do you see here...

ALL of them are (or were) first and foremost PC developers, already used to todays GPUs... I rest my case :D

Red_Eyes
12-11-2008, 10:32 PM
The question actually is what are you smoking? Sega Rally stunk, Virtua Tennis stunk and I already mentioned Virtua Fighter so its pointless to bring it up though it didn't move as many units as SEGA would have liked. Same thing with Yakuza, so I don't think you even read my post. As for Football Manager 2009, that's a niche title and I haven't played it; it's not groundbreaking that's for sure. As for Valkyria Chronicles, I haven't played it. None of these title take full advantage of either the 360 or PS3 hardware except for maybe Virtua Fighter.

Alpha Protocol is going to stink (I sat in an interview with the developers for a hands-on impression and it looks like a downgraded Mass Effect with espionage/Splinter Cell elements). and Alien FPS and RPG are a long ways off so you can't include them in the list since you have no idea what they'll look like or how they'll essentially play.




Soul Calibur 4 is no on par with Soul Calibur 2 or Soul Edge, so don't even try to compare it to the great fighting games of the past. So this is being excluded from being a great title on the 360/PS3 without a doubt. It's not just my opinion, it's many people and critics opinions. I already stated Tekken 6 was an anticipated title for 2009, so there you go again being redundant. As for Afro Samurai, Namco is developing but not publishing, so this is why I didn't include it but yes, it looks good too.



My argument does not fall flat. They can buy all the japanese talent they'd like, but it won't help with working on the Unreal 3.0 engine. I won't stop blaming Sony because it's a two-part problem with one being Sony's console architecture being difficult to develop for and the other part being Square's lack of intelligence with it.

I guess you really didn't read those quotes or just brushed them off for whatever reason so you can stick to your guns. Well I'm sorry to disappoint you, but the entire Japanese sector of developers (excluding only a few such as Kojima) are sluggish this generation and have fell behind the West. There's no argument about it so don't even waste your timetrying to prove me otherwise.



This list is retarded. Of them, only Street Fighter, Devil May Cry, Resident Evil 5, Dead Rising, Lost Planet. Bionic Commando (all from Capcom), Metal Gear Solid (Konami), Ninja Gaiden (Tecmo) should be included. Why not list every game that you played as a kid while your at it:spit:.

Okami, Mario, Zelda, Mad World are not in HD. So you once again have lost you way. Mad World wasn't that great at E3 outside of the unusual violence. Bayonetta is a DMC clone, nothing to see here. Zone of the Enders hasn't been touched in several years so its irrelevant. Ridge Racer and Soul Calibur have stunk this generation and Ace Combat was decent. Persona and SMT are still on the PS2, so they are irrelevant to this TECH conversation



I'm going to just stick to my original thought that maybe you are nostalgic and won't let go of Japan's old way or maybe your just oblivious, but if you don't recognize how far Japan has fallen, then there's really no saving you at this point since even Japanese developer stating the truth won't make you see the light on the subject.
Your opinion is wrong. I guess that's how it feels when somebody tells you are you wrong.

Anyway, the Japanese were behind two years ago. But that's two years ago. In those time, Sega (yes, Valkryie Chronicle is a fucking great strategy JPRG with great next gen graphics, VF looks amazing graphically), Konami, Capcom, and many other big Japanese developers have come to terms with these new technologies and architects. Square, with its stupid retarded President and his bad decisions, is hindering Square. Programming for Cell's architect is not even as hard as programming for the PS2 architect (many devs came out and confirmed this already). Even Square's games show that Square is not struggling with the technologies. Games like Tales of Vesperia and Star Ocean 4 shows that Square actually got a good grip for the new technologies and architect. So then what's Square's problem? Bad President making bad decisions.

The other Japanese developers who are struggling are small developers, who are not struggling with the technologies but rather the cost. And that's what PSN is there for. Those small developers just have to utilize the PSN.

cliffbo
12-11-2008, 10:42 PM
The other japanese developers who are struggling are small developers, who are not struggling with the technologies but rather the cost. And that's what PSN is there for. Those small developers just have to utilize the PSN.

i'll quote this because it's something that touches upon a thread Frosty posted a while back and Dom, Pari, Ac!d and i keep trying to say how PSN is going to be important next year

Dakota Grabowski
12-11-2008, 11:42 PM
Your opinion is wrong. I guess that's how it feels when somebody tells you are you wrong.

Anyway, the Japanese were behind two years ago. But that's two years ago. In those time, Sega (yes, Valkryie Chronicle is a fucking great strategy JPRG with great next gen graphics, VF looks amazing graphically), Konami, Capcom, and many other big Japanese developers have come to terms with these new technologies and architects. Square, with its stupid retarded President and his bad decisions, is hindering Square. Programming for Cell's architect is not even as hard as programming for the PS2 architect (many devs came out and confirmed this already). Even Square's games show that Square is not struggling with the technologies. Games like Tales of Vesperia and Star Ocean 4 shows that Square actually got a good grip for the new technologies and architect. So then what's Square's problem? Bad President making bad decisions.

The other Japanese developers who are struggling are small developers, who are not struggling with the technologies but rather the cost. And that's what PSN is there for. Those small developers just have to utilize the PSN.

LOL, all right. I'm guessing this was a joke post so I'm going to ignore it since so much of it erroneous (like Tales of Vesperia is not from Namco). It's like you never read any posts before your own. Oh well, at least Cliffbo and a few others understands the nature of how far the Japanese have fallen. Accept it and move on, there's no denying it since Japanese developers even agree with the statement.

cliffbo
12-11-2008, 11:46 PM
i agree with Red-eyes actually. 'some' being the key word here on both sides of the argument... Square being the worse

Dakota Grabowski
12-12-2008, 12:11 AM
i agree with Red-eyes actually. 'some' being the key word here on both sides of the argument... Square being the worse

lol. uh huh. I just put you in the response so you could reply with what I expected you to say.

Whatever the case, Japanese developers are stinking it up this generation outside of the select few and need to play catch up real fast

Red_Eyes
12-12-2008, 03:26 AM
LOL, all right. I'm guessing this was a joke post so I'm going to ignore it since so much of it erroneous (like Tales of Vesperia is not from Namco). It's like you never read any posts before your own. Oh well, at least Cliffbo and a few others understands the nature of how far the Japanese have fallen. Accept it and move on, there's no denying it since Japanese developers even agree with the statement.
The Japanese agreed two years ago. Times have changed. Many have overcome it. Even SE. The only problem left for SE is the President. I mean, just look. They don't even know what their fans want anymore.

Fans: We want FF7 remake. FF7 appeals to both Westerners and Easterners.

SE President: Oh. Okay, let's make Last Remanant with 2 characters, one Caucasian and one Pussy Japanese Dude so that we can appeal to both Westerners and Easterners. Result: Epic fail.

SE President: Well, at least we got still FF13. Oh, let's not try to finish it with the limited resources we have, instead, we'll delay it by spreading the resources even more thin AND open another branch in the US to make American games. We must appease to the Americans. Result: Will be epic fail too.

SE President: And oh, I know how to make more money. We just have to go multiplatform. And by multiplatform, I mean, releasing RPGs on the 360 only. We will not be like Capcom, who truely went multiplatform and make tons of money.


lol. uh huh. I just put you in the response so you could reply with what I expected you to say.

Whatever the case, Japanese developers are stinking it up this generation outside of the select few and need to play catch up real fast
No. Actually, it's only SE that's having problems. Capcom, Konami, Namco, Sega, and the others are doing just fine. SE's games are bombing left and right while the other Japanese games are doing great.

Raijin
12-12-2008, 03:38 AM
No. Actually, it's only SE that's having problems. Capcom, Konami, Namco, Sega, and the others are doing fine. SE's games are bombing left and right while the other Japanese games are doing great.

-Sega is doing pretty good i have to say. I wasnt expecting them honestly. Definitely the surprise there.
-Capcom have their engine which is making their games looking on part with the western concurrence but their games themselves are not that good.
-Konami is pathetic imo. Aside MGS4 and some rubbish PES what else have they done? They are simply not up to the task, no matter how spin it.
-Namco, the same. Still no Ace Combat on the PS (incredible), the same old franchises with no real novelties in them (Tekken, SC and such). Their games are looking good from an artistic standpoint but from a technical standpoint, they feel very PS2-ish imo. There's nothing that makes awe you (killzone, uncharted and such).

So no, the other japanese companies are not fine imo. Not fine at all. They are certainly crapping in their pants at the moment we're speaking.

Red_Eyes
12-12-2008, 03:48 AM
Well, when you compare to Killzone 2, Uncharted 2, and God of War 3, then the Japs are no where near that. But than again, most third party Western developers are no where near those games too. But like most Western developers, they're doing fine. Not so great, not so bad, just fine, and it could only get better.

When I really think about it, all the "the Japanese are failing," and "the Japanese market is dying" are actually just from one person, the President of SE, from all those interviews. I don't really see anyone else running around screaming and panicking like him. When you really look around, the Japs are doing fine. It's actually his own company that's failing.

TimmyJ
12-12-2008, 04:09 AM
lol. uh huh. I just put you in the response so you could reply with what I expected you to say.

Whatever the case, Japanese developers are stinking it up this generation outside of the select few and need to play catch up real fast

A Halo player with the diplomacy of Kim Jong-il? Well I never

Dakota Grabowski
12-12-2008, 06:15 AM
A Halo player with the diplomacy of Kim Jong-il? Well I never

You need a vacation from your gimmick -- it's old.

TimmyJ
12-12-2008, 07:24 AM
You need a vacation from your gimmick -- it's old.

I suppose - I just can't get enough of those Kim Jong-il jokes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anemia

yoshaw
12-12-2008, 08:48 AM
Ladies, QUIT IT!!

IBTL *signals smokey*

Red_Eyes
12-12-2008, 08:52 AM
*Start fire. Sends smoke signals to smokey*

AC!D
12-12-2008, 01:32 PM
Well, when you compare to Killzone 2, Uncharted 2, and God of War 3, then the Japs are no where near that. But than again, most third party Western developers are no where near those games too. But like most Western developers, they're doing fine. Not so great, not so bad, just fine, and it could only get better.

When I really think about it, all the "the Japanese are failing," and "the Japanese market is dying" are actually just from one person, the President of SE, from all those interviews. I don't really see anyone else running around screaming and panicking like him. When you really look around, the Japs are doing fine. It's actually his own company that's failing.

I disagree i expect Team ICO's game, GT5, MGS5, FF13, FF13 VERSUS and Yakuza 3 to look just as good as Killzone 2, Uncharted 2 and GOW3 or at least come very close and Resi 5 looks amazing aswell.

Dakota Grabowski
12-12-2008, 03:22 PM
I disagree i expect Team ICO's game, GT5, MGS5, FF13, FF13 VERSUS and Yakuza 3 to look just as good as Killzone 2, Uncharted 2 and GOW3 or at least come very close and Resi 5 looks amazing aswell.

I don't agree on Resident Evil 5... it's no where on par with FFXIII and MGS4. Resident Evil looks too similar to RE4 for my tastes.

ddaryl
12-12-2008, 03:28 PM
until the PS3 has about 50 million units sold Square won't be pumping out to many PS3 games.

They need a very high installed user base to be able to generate profits the support their expensive productions

Diresu
12-12-2008, 03:45 PM
I don't agree on Resident Evil 5... it's no where on par with FFXIII and MGS4. Resident Evil looks too similar to RE4 for my tastes.

I agree about RE5. Although thats what happens when your engine is meant for multiplatform development. MG4 focused on a single console and got everything it could out of it. Framework engine is not meant to do that and it shows.

Although I have to agree that while Japanese devs are still behind it's not across the board. Sega is kicking ass this generation and I dare you to find a game better technically then Yakuza 3, or with better art then Valkyria Chronicles. Also, look at GT5 and Polyphony in general. Only devs that seems to struggle are those that don't seem to want to make an effort and are perfectly fine with pushing out mediocrity. There are plenty of western devs that do the same thing. It's not about location, it's about your work ethic.

Red_Eyes
12-13-2008, 03:03 AM
Anyone saw the two new FF13 trailers ripped from Cloud yet?

OmniStalgic
12-13-2008, 04:28 AM
until the PS3 has about 50 million units sold Square won't be pumping out to many PS3 games.

They need a very high installed user base to be able to generate profits the support their expensive productionsThey can't do it, or they want to?

JasonXe
12-13-2008, 04:35 AM
I did. Pretty cool stuff especially versus. Just waiting for some gameplay stuff to pop out sometime soon.

Dakota Grabowski
12-16-2008, 08:49 PM
"Square Enix developer Hiroshi Takai has given a big endorsement to Microsoft's console, stating that it's "a lot easier" to work with than the PS3.

Speaking in the latest issue of Official Xbox Magazine UK, the Last Remnant director said he's crossing his fingers that his next project will be on the Xbox 360.

"It's been the team's first time working with Xbox 360 and the Unreal Engine," he said. "In both cases the experience has been a positive one. In fact, as we've only just finished work on Last Remnant I don't even know what my next project is going to be at Square Enix. However, I'm very much hoping it'll be for Xbox 360 as it's been a lot easier to work with than PlayStation 3."

It's not the first time the RPG powerhouse has sent Xbox its love; Star Ocean and Infinite Undiscovery are both on Microsoft's box, and of course Final Fantasy XIII is finally confirmed for the box.

Takai told OXM the company has been making more moves to appeal to the West. "We didn't try to appeal to one audience or the other, but tried to give everything we did a global appeal," he said. "From a visual standpoint there are some things you can get away with in Western games... characters can be less clean-cut."

If you don't know who Hiroshi Takai is, here's a quick profile.


Hiroshi Takai is a game developer for Square Enix. He was involved in battle design for Legend of Mana and the Romancing SaGa trilogy of games. With Takashi Tokita, he co-directed the Playstation 2 title The Bouncer. His next project for Square Enix will be directing The Last Remnant, scheduled for a simultaneous release in Japan and North America in the Spring of 2008.

Thought I'd provide some insight from one of the developers within Square-Enix.

curryking1
12-16-2008, 08:53 PM
I think we already know there are contrasting views of desirable development within Square Enix.

We don't need an article to tell us that that one guy within Square supports one system over the other because that's pretty much arbitrary at this point and telling us nothing new.

I think it speaks for itself when the only title he has directed other than The Bouncer is Last Remnant, a currently 360 only game (can't remember if it's exclusive or not), and that he is speaking to an Xbox magazine. That's the equivalent of Naughty Dog saying they will untap 100% of the PS3's power with Uncharted 2.

I'm kind of wondering the relevance of this guy considering his credentials at Square. It doesn't help that Last Remnant is one of the very bottom projects to come from Square Enix in it's entire lifetime and neither does the fact that development on the PS3 hasn't hindered any simultaneous multiplatform release for any other publisher, in Japan or not, in recent memory either. The game being on the UE3.0, a multiplatform and licensed engine with an expected degree of documentation, is not working in his favour at all by the way.

Dakota Grabowski
12-16-2008, 08:56 PM
I think we already know there are contrasting views of desirable development within Square Enix.

We don't need an article to tell us that that one guy supports one system over the other because that's pretty much arbitrary at this point and telling us nothing new.

it's just not "one guy", he's the "one guy" who holds the hands of a large team of developers and programmers.

Anyway, can't overlook it. One has to wonder what the FFXIII team prefers at this point since they've worked more on the PS3 hardware than anyone else.


I think it speaks for itself when the only title he has directed other than The Bouncer is Last Remnant, a currently 360 only game (can't remember if it's exclusive or not), and that he is speaking to an Xbox magazine. That's the equivalent of Naughty Dog saying they will untap 100% of the PS3's power with Uncharted 2.

It doesn't help that Last Remnant is one of the very bottom projects outputted by Square Enix in it's entire lifetime either

yeah, he's usually involved with monster and battle design. As for TLR, it's not exactly a bottom project when they Square-Enix is running their mouth stating that it's a part of their "worldwide strategy," whatever that may be in the future. As for the game, it will also arrive on the PC.

curryking1
12-16-2008, 09:03 PM
it's just not "one guy", he's the "one guy" who holds the hands of a large team of developers and programmers.

Arbitrary and simply semantics. We know we would say the same thing for anyone else saying the same thing.

If Nomura came out and said the PS3 was great we'd be talking about Nomura's decision or lack thereof to say so.


As for TLR, it's not exactly a bottom project when they Square-Enix is running their mouth stating that it's a part of their "worldwide strategy," whatever that may be in the future. As for the game, it will also arrive on the PC.

Let's ignore Last Remnant the game itself for a second. If we're talking in terms of sales or excitement for the game? This would rank as Square, Enix, or Square Enix fodder.

Square Enix's worldwide strategy is the equivalent of throwing a tennis ball to a wall and hoping it will eventually stick. I'm obviously exaggerating a bit but that's the kind of 'inspired' strategy Square Enix is taking to expand their brand which is nothing short of embarassing. If any large, well-known multinational company did something similar the whole world would be laughing at them.

If Square Enix actually had a legitimate, consistent, unified gameplan (unified being the key word which is necessary for proper functioning) for worldwide expansion FF XIII would have a Wii adaptation (which seems more than logical), Star Ocean IV and Infinite Undiscovery would certainly not be console exclusive but rather released for PC, 360 and PS3, and Last Remnant would not be excused to have a staggered release.

That Square Enix's gameplan for worldwide expansion does not at all mirror Capcom's excellent foray into next-gen is proof enough that Square Enix needs to get over their problems before making very premature decisions and deals.

Diresu
12-16-2008, 09:10 PM
There is something funny about him saying 360 is easier to develop for and yet his game TLR is a steaming pile of technical crap.

Dakota Grabowski
12-16-2008, 09:11 PM
Arbitrary and simply semantics. We know we would say the same thing for anyone else saying the same thing.

You parallel yourself with this.



If Nomura came out and said the PS3 was great we'd be talking about Nomura's decision or lack thereof to say so.

Let's ignore Last Remnant the game itself for a second. If we're talking in terms of sales or excitement for the game? This would rank as Square, Enix, or Squaresoft fodder.

Not so fast, go over to Japan and you'll hear a different story. Japanese press were eating this up (38/40 at Famitsu and other favorable scores). In fact, TLR is charting well with the hardcore fans. It's the rivals' fanatics and people who don't play the genre that aren't particularly fond of the title.

I will agree that it's not Star Ocean, FF, DQ, or Kingdom Hearts... but it's on par with their Mana series and Crystal Chronicles series in terms of what they'd like to accomplish with it. Not sure if the plan on sequels though.


Square Enix's worldwide strategy is the equivalent of throwing a tennis ball to a wall and hoping it will eventually stick. I'm obviously exaggerating a bit but that's the kind of 'inspired' strategy Square Enix is taking to expand their brand which is nothing short of embarassing. If any large, well-known multinational company did something similar the whole world would be laughing at them.

The only other large 3rd party publisher that is attempting a "worldwide strategy" is Electronic Arts with working with several Japanese developers. I have no idea how it will all work out though.

curryking1
12-16-2008, 09:17 PM
You parallel yourself with this.

Are you offended or something? Was that winning any argument here? No, defining what Takai says between Takai alone and Takai and his team is irrelevant no matter what you want to think. Takai is the only one talking. The end result is he is the voice of his team and we're taking his words either way. Therefore the difference is arbitrary.

Famitsu does not equal Japan and another point aside from this is there is no argument to even compete that Square Enix is not in any stable position to really approach next generation like the benchmark Capcom has shown with their worldwide strategy. Halo 3 got a 37/40. Blue Dragon was given a 37/40 for a JRPG example. Mirroring Japan much? Eating Last Remnant up is a bit of a stretch.

Dakota Grabowski
12-16-2008, 09:22 PM
Are you offended or something? Was that winning any argument here? No, defining what Takai says between Takai alone and Takai and his team is irrelevant no matter what you want to think. Takai is the only one talking. The end result is he is the voice of his team and we're taking his words either way. Therefore the difference is arbitrary.


LOL, stop editing your posts after I post my follow-up lol. Not offended or trying one up you, but I'm stating that you are jumping the shark with obliging to overlook the opinion of the head of a development team no matter who they are. Everything in the world is subjective, so no need to keep stating it over and over again. The opinion of yours is arbitrary. My own opinion is arbitrary. So what's the use of pointing it out over and over again?

Blue Dragon was a great game no matter which way you spin it and is still the biggest game for the 360 in Japan.

I know that Famitsu doesn't equal Japan... have I said otherwise to make you believe I did? The general consensus in Japan for TLR is that it's a good game from the press and the gamers who've spoken out on the title.

It's the American press and gamers that have soured on J-RPG titles.

curryking1
12-16-2008, 09:27 PM
I'm the one spinning things? What's your definition of Japan 'eating up' a game and does that apply to Blue Dragon? And will it apply to Last Remnant?

If it doesn't that doesn't mean I'm trying to deny Blue Dragon's being the biggest game for 360 or that it's not a good game (I haven't played it) in Japan but that is simply not a good measure for success in any territory for any type of game.

Diresu
12-16-2008, 09:27 PM
Blue Dragon was a great game no matter which way you spin

That's a joke right? Blue Dragon is THE definition of mediocre and unimaginative.

Red_Eyes
12-16-2008, 09:32 PM
There is something funny about him saying 360 is easier to develop for and yet his game TLR is a steaming pile of technical crap.
Yeah, he loves how easy the 360 is, yet, Last Remnant looks like crap. Just shows how incompetent this dude is. If the 360 is so easy (and it is), then shouldn't he and his team be able to pump out a much better game, graphically?
This is one of SE's many problems, not being up to date on the newest technology, even the easiest to use technology.


It's the American press and gamers that have soured on J-RPG titles.
No. It's the whole world (including gamers) that soured on not just crappy JRPGs, but most crappy games.

Dakota Grabowski
12-16-2008, 09:37 PM
That's a joke right? Blue Dragon is THE definition of mediocre and unimaginative.

Nope, remember its all about preferences and Blue Dragon is a very traditional RPG that is a throwback to the old days of a J-RPG. In a time where many RPGs are throwing in unimaginative futuristic cities and boring storylines, Blue Dragon was an RPG that reminded me games can be light and humorous rather than full of despair and gloom.

But once again, it's my opinion and I know many people share the same feeling but they are mostly of the J-RPG hardcore fanbase.


No. It's the whole world (including gamers) that soured on not just crappy JRPGs, but most crappy games.

Nah, J-RPGs don't sell as well in the US as they used to and it's a proven fact. The only RPG that receives fanfare is Final Fantasy and that's disappointing. So whether they are crappy (Enchanted Arms) or quality (Tales of Vesperia) or strategy RPGs (Valkryia Chronicles) or turn-based (Lost Odyssey) the US doesn't like J-RPGs as much as they used to. The same thing can be said for fighters as shooters, party games, action games and a majority of racing games are the genres that are in the limelight right now

Red_Eyes
12-16-2008, 09:48 PM
Nah, J-RPGs don't sell as well in the US as they used to and it's a proven fact. The only RPG that receives fanfare is Final Fantasy and that's disappointing. So whether they are crappy (Enchanted Arms) or quality (Tales of Vesperia) or strategy RPGs (Valkryia Chronicles) or turn-based (Lost Odyssey) the US doesn't like J-RPGs as much as they used to. The same thing can be said for fighters as shooters, party games, action games and a majority of racing games are the genres that are in the limelight right now
But we're talking about the quality of the game, and not sales. Thought many people does not buy Valkryia, it's still a very high quality game compare to The Last Remnant, a low quality game with low sales. And that's SE's problem. Low quality.

Dakota Grabowski
12-16-2008, 09:54 PM
But we're talking about the quality of the game, and not sales. Thought many people does not buy Valkryia, it's still a very high quality game compare to The Last Remnant, a low quality game with low sales. And that's SE's problem. Low quality.

The sales for The Last Remnant are higher than Valkyria at this current moment and will be at the end of its lifetime. Problem is, TLR should've sold like Turbo Man in Jingle All the Way in comparison to Valkryia but it hasn't.

Valkryia, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, and Tales of Vesperia are the only RPGs I'd take away from this generation if I had to so far. Haven't put enough time into The Last Remnant or Infinite Undiscovery.

I truly hope Star Ocean 4 is the game that turns around the boat for Square-Enix. If not, they might just have to resurrect the remake of FF7 and bring back the Chrono series again to show that they have it again.

Diresu
12-16-2008, 10:22 PM
Nope, remember its all about preferences and Blue Dragon is a very traditional RPG that is a throwback to the old days of a J-RPG. In a time where many RPGs are throwing in unimaginative futuristic cities and boring storylines, Blue Dragon was an RPG that reminded me games can be light and humorous rather than full of despair and gloom.

But once again, it's my opinion and I know many people share the same feeling but they are mostly of the J-RPG hardcore fanbase.


I hope this is not your veiled attempt to call me a JRPG noob. I am more hardcore of a JRPG fan then most people you will ever meet. Try playing SNES untranslated roms of RPGS that most people never heard of. So please. Blue Dragon is not hardcore. It's bare bones, with a shitty art style, mediocre graphics and gameplay that is as dry as it gets. Mediocre game is a mediocre game, not a "hardcore" game. You want to see a throwback to a classic JRPG that is truly hardcore, play anything in the MegaTen series. THAT"s hardcore and actually made well. BD is neither.

Dakota Grabowski
12-16-2008, 10:42 PM
I hope this is not your veiled attempt to call me a JRPG noob. I am more hardcore of a JRPG fan then most people you will ever meet. Try playing SNES untranslated roms of RPGS that most people never heard of. So please. Blue Dragon is not hardcore. It's bare bones, with a shitty art style, mediocre graphics and gameplay that is as dry as it gets. Mediocre game is a mediocre game, not a "hardcore" game. You want to see a throwback to a classic JRPG that is truly hardcore, play anything in the MegaTen series. THAT"s hardcore and actually made well. BD is neither.

no, I am not calling you a new-bee or anything slanderous as such. I never said Blue Dragon is hardcore; I said it was traditional. I am sure you understand what I am trying to say. I have all the MegaTen series titles released here in the states and it's not a stab at traditional J-RPGs but rather at the niche that needs the extra mile.

Please don't justify your opinion as fact. The Japanese love Blue Dragon (anime, trading card games, two handheld titles, and much more), the critics thought it was good (79% at Metacritic) and even the Japanese press gobbled it up.

Everything you stated was your opinion and I am glad you have one. Please don't keep spreading the hate as if it's a known fact though, Blue Dragon is a lot better than you give it credit for but lets not argue this as it is what curry loves to say "arbitrary" haha.

You don't have to try and prove to me that you are a J-RPG gamer or anything as such. I'm glad you are among the few left that find true enjoyment in the genre since it's dying so quick due to the move to next-generation consoles (budgets, new technology, etc being the reasons).

Let's get back on track and talk about how Square-Enix can right this ship. I, for one, want to see them revisit the Parasite Eve series and create a true next-gen Dragon Quest for any of the HD consoles.

cliffbo
12-16-2008, 10:51 PM
aaaaaaaa... watching the last dying embers of 'PS3 is too hard to program for' is quite rewarding. nearly as rewarding as 'Blu-ray isn't necessary' or 'HD-DVD will win' but not nearly as rewarding as 'Sony won't advertise downloading'.

Square Enix are in such hot water with their fans, especially in light of WKS, Uncharted, GOW3 and KZ2. it's old and soon to become debunked. it might have been hard once, but if you invest in REAL tech, the future is bright for you. thanks Level -5

Diresu
12-16-2008, 11:13 PM
no, I am not calling you a new-bee or anything slanderous as such. I never said Blue Dragon is hardcore; I said it was traditional. I am sure you understand what I am trying to say. I have all the MegaTen series titles released here in the states and it's not a stab at traditional J-RPGs but rather at the niche that needs the extra mile.

I tend to disagree but let's leave it at that.


Please don't justify your opinion as fact. The Japanese love Blue Dragon (anime, trading card games, two handheld titles, and much more), the critics thought it was good (79% at Metacritic) and even the Japanese press gobbled it up.


I never called it a fact, and while it's my opinion it's one shared by many. Japanese press gobbles up any JRPG, so that's not saying much.



Everything you stated was your opinion and I am glad you have one. Please don't keep spreading the hate as if it's a known fact though, Blue Dragon is a lot better than you give it credit for but lets not argue this as it is what curry loves to say "arbitrary" haha.

Again, yes it's my opinion that it's mediocre, just like it's your opinion that it's not. It pisses me off that games that deserve the spotlight like ATLUS game's don't get it and a game like BD does.


You don't have to try and prove to me that you are a J-RPG gamer or anything as such. I'm glad you are among the few left that find true enjoyment in the genre since it's dying so quick due to the move to next-generation consoles (budgets, new technology, etc being the reasons).

If anyone is killing the JRPG's this gen, it's square. Because they are trying to appeal to the west with their games. TLR is a result of their new direction, and it makes me so happy that level5 and atlus exist cause square no longer knows how to make a JRPG..or at the least, they choose not to.



Let's get back on track and talk about how Square-Enix can right this ship. I, for one, want to see them revisit the Parasite Eve series and create a true next-gen Dragon Quest for any of the HD consoles.

There is a lot they can do, not the least of which is release FF7 remake. DQX is going to Wii (thanks square) so that isn't happening anytime soon. Square is going to keep doing what they are doing and that's put out crap, and remake after remake of games they already remade 10 times because hey why make a good game when you can repackage an old game. I have all but given up on square and VS XIII will probably be the only game I will buy from Square in a long time.

Dakota Grabowski
12-16-2008, 11:48 PM
There is a lot they can do, not the least of which is release FF7 remake. DQX is going to Wii (thanks square) so that isn't happening anytime soon. Square is going to keep doing what they are doing and that's put out crap, and remake after remake of games they already remade 10 times because hey why make a good game when you can repackage an old game. I have all but given up on square and VS XIII will probably be the only game I will buy from Square in a long time.

Do you have a 360? If so, will you be buying Star Ocean: The Last Hope? Do you have a Wii? If so, why won't you be buying Dragon Quest X? What about Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles or Soul Eater for the Wii? Do you have a PSP? If so, will you be buying Dissidia?

cliffbo
12-16-2008, 11:53 PM
Do you have a 360? If so, will you be buying Star Ocean: The Last Hope? Do you have a Wii? If so, why won't you be buying Dragon Quest X? What about Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles or Soul Eater for the Wii? Do you have a PSP? If so, will you be buying Dissidia?

i thought we were supposed to be arguing from a PS3 perspective... otherwise why would you keep going on about Square having problems developing for it

AC!D
12-17-2008, 12:18 AM
i thought we were supposed to be arguing from a PS3 perspective... otherwise why would you keep going on about Square having problems developing for it

What are you actually only catching on now Cliff? First he goes on about how Sony is to Blame for the state of how crap RPG's are and for Square Enixes problems and yet praises Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Star Ocean and the Last Remnant which funny enough are exclusive to a specific console for the moment and he states that those are the only rpg's he will take away from this HD generation meanwhile VC and Persona 3 + 4 piss all over those games but they arent on that specific console get it? Then he says Squeenix is falling behind with its tech with the rest of Japan but i thought Unreal Engine 3 was new mutiplatform tech and licensed at just under a million dollars and it works on PS3 as Unreal tournament proved that but still its Sony's fault. Then he posts the Last Remnants Directors comments about it being easier to programme on a x-box console yet The Last Remnant on x-box 360 is a buggy and graphical mess but that doesnt matter cause famitsu said so. Your first clue though should have been that he is the Halo combat evolved champ.

This has been turned into we hate Sony thread instead of a proper discussion on the State of Square Enix and what they can do to remedy their situation.

cliffbo
12-17-2008, 12:23 AM
i did notice. i was being sarcastic. ;)

if the PS3 is doing so badly and the 360 is doing so well, why am i seeing more negativity towards the PS3 (everywhere) than at any time in the last two years. everything is being dragged through the mud. it's almost as if it's a last gasped attempt at halting the inevitable...

Segitz
12-17-2008, 12:24 AM
Do you have a 360? If so, will you be buying Star Ocean: The Last Hope? Do you have a Wii? If so, why won't you be buying Dragon Quest X? What about Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles or Soul Eater for the Wii? Do you have a PSP? If so, will you be buying Dissidia?

Why would he be doing it? He already said, he's sick of what Square puts out.

Of those games (never particularly having liked the DQ series, because I really don't like the art... at all), I might consider Dissidia... but from the videos I saw... not quite.

I will not buy a second or third console just for some games. That is not saying those games aren't worth it... but even 3 games a year can't convince me to buy a console. I am "only" a student!


Again, yes it's my opinion that it's mediocre, just like it's your opinion that it's not. It pisses me off that games that deserve the spotlight like ATLUS game's don't get it and a game like BD does.

Because MS has bigger leverage than Atlus... sad but true... Without MSs force (or money) behind Mistwalker, those games would sure have died horrible deaths (even if they had their own funds to make these games) in retail.

And this is also where Sony does make some mistakes (too little marketing). Marketing leverages good games to AAA games (look at Assassins Creed for Example... "mediocre" game (as in not quite AAA, just barely)). R2, LBP and MS2 would do much better with proper marketing... thing is, is the cost worth it? That is not my business... I am a mere programmer^^

cliffbo
12-17-2008, 12:34 AM
right i'm going to call this out.

we are getting trolled by 360 owners in a PS3 forum. why is this being allowed to continue. it is one thing arguing that the advertising could be better (as i have) or the games are not as good as they used to be (as Omnicloud posted. i know he's a PS3 fan and not a troll. that is his opinion and i think he should be able to express it). but it is another when you know damn well that you have a 360 owner deliberately trying to bring down the enthusiasm of PS3 owners in a PS3 thread. it won't work with me, it never has, but i'm sure it effects some people. how many of us go to the 360 section just to argue all god-damn day? this isn't on and something needs to be done about it

or to be fair. the thread i posted about the warranty running out on the 360 should be reinstated so that the balance can be redressed.

AC!D
12-17-2008, 12:36 AM
Did you read the article from the Washington Post slamming Sony for deliberately sabotaging the Blu Ray market? I dont know wheather to laugh or cry at the sate of journalism these days. Whatever gets you the most hits right? According to CNN PS3 is doomed because the shelves are stocked and apparently only selling close to 400 000 in November according to NPD and a lack of software means Sony is Doomed.

cliffbo
12-17-2008, 12:39 AM
Did you read the article from the Washington Post slamming Sony for deliberately sabotaging the Blu Ray market? I dont know wheather to laugh or cry at the sate of journalism these days. Whatever gets you the most hits right? According to CNN PS3 is doomed because the shelves are stocked and apparently only selling close to 400 000 in November according to NPD and a lack of software means Sony is Doomed.

or 'unlike Sony Ms don't intend to charge for clothes with their avatars' why even put it that why? why not just report it. the spew that is infiltrating the net at the moments is spurring the hidden trolls on this forum to join in

or this


New PS3 Ads Focus on Downloadable Movies, But is that a Good Decision?

which goes on to say how much better netflix is

or this:


Would Microsoft been better at handling Sony's exclusives?

or this:


Help G4 Crash PlayStation Home Tonight!

AC!D
12-17-2008, 12:43 AM
How about yesterday when somebody basically wrote PSN's entire catalogue off and said nothing he played was good? Or the Splinter cell vs MGS4 Comments in the MGS4 thread and then there was the Uncharted is GeoW in a jungle comments. I mean really is shit like that necessary?

cliffbo
12-17-2008, 12:45 AM
How about yesterday when somebody basically wrote PSN's entire catalogue off and said nothing he played was good? Or the Spinter cell vs MGS4 Comments in the MGS 4 thread and then there was the Uncharted is GeoW in a jungle comments.

exactly, it's cranked up more than it ever has... and on top of that we get trolled by 360 fans. it's not on

curryking1
12-17-2008, 12:45 AM
That Uncharted comment is just... embarassing for humanity.

cliffbo
12-17-2008, 12:47 AM
i think it's time for a really good shout out from Sony fans on this forum. it seems to happen every now and then and now's the time.

curryking1
12-17-2008, 12:52 AM
This shouldn't be a Sony fanboy cry though...

But SCE and Playstation 3 have been severely underappreciated and abused for 2 years and it's just ***king ridiculous because they are doing some ***t no one else in gaming is even ***king approaching.

I'm SO GLAD that Playstation has it's brand left over from the greatness of PS1 and PS2. I am glad people still love Playstation because it was and continues to be ***king well deserved.

Above and beyond and Like. No. Other. like they've always been. Standing out, not fitting in, is what I'm talking about SCE and SCEWWS.

BahnNZ
12-17-2008, 12:59 AM
Well of course what they've done is jumped ship from PS2 to 360/Wii just as they jumped ship from Super Nintendo to Playstation back in the day. Only they didn't announce it, they left it for us to work out for ourselves. If I didn't have a cabinet full of classic jRPGs yet to finish I'd be quite miffed about that. If the games Square were bringing out were top notch 9/10 instant classics I'd be even more miffed.

Not miffed at all. I have a 360 and Wii and if I was chomping at the bit for Infinite Undiscovery or whatever I could just walk to the shop and buy it. But I'm not.

Because folks: http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/902/902768p1.html - Life is too short to devote 50 hours to a 7/10 game.

And when you do make such a game you're rewarded as you'd expect: http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=7400 0.37m total sales worldwide

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 01:12 AM
i thought we were supposed to be arguing from a PS3 perspective... otherwise why would you keep going on about Square having problems developing for it

LOL, can a guy ever ask a question to another forum member?


What are you actually only catching on now Cliff? First he goes on about how Sony is to Blame for the state of how crap RPG's are and for Square Enixes problems and yet praises Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Star Ocean and the Last Remnant which funny enough are exclusive to a specific console for the moment and he states that those are the only rpg's he will take away from this HD generation meanwhile VC and Persona 3 + 4 piss all over those games but they arent on that specific console get it? Then he says Squeenix is falling behind with its tech with the rest of Japan but i thought Unreal Engine 3 was new mutiplatform tech and licensed at just under a million dollars and it works on PS3 as Unreal tournament proved that but still its Sony's fault. Then he posts the Last Remnants Directors comments about it being easier to programme on a x-box console yet The Last Remnant on x-box 360 is a buggy and graphical mess but that doesnt matter cause famitsu said so. Your first clue though should have been that he is the Halo combat evolved champ.

This has been turned into we hate Sony thread instead of a proper discussion on the State of Square Enix and what they can do to remedy their situation.


Your lame Acid, you'll turn anything into a console war. Get over yourself and just talk Square-Enix. I'm going to ignore everything you post as you are just angry at someone today and want to start controversy. I think Square-Enix has a few titles still heading towards greatness and if they happen to be on the handhelds or other consoles, then so be it. This is why I asked him if he was going to avoid them too since it was a discussion between him and I and I wanted to know what he thought. No bias behind it at all but since you only see black and white, then please stop butting in since you are bringing down the course of this thread with it.


right i'm going to call this out.

we are getting trolled by 360 owners in a PS3 forum. why is this being allowed to continue. it is one thing arguing that the advertising could be better (as i have) or the games are not as good as they used to be (as Omnicloud posted. i know he's a PS3 fan and not a troll. that is his opinion and i think he should be able to express it). but it is another when you know damn well that you have a 360 owner deliberately trying to bring down the enthusiasm of PS3 owners in a PS3 thread. it won't work with me, it never has, but i'm sure it effects some people. how many of us go to the 360 section just to argue all god-damn day? this isn't on and something needs to be done about it

or to be fair. the thread i posted about the warranty running out on the 360 should be reinstated so that the balance can be redressed.

Please go ahead and point where I've trolled. The poster who started the thread asked the question "What the "ugly word" is square-enix doing" and I provided him a quote of what one developer is doing and wants to do. So stop behaving like a child who didn't get what he wanted for Christmas and just stay on topic rather than trying to start a witch hunt for whatever purposes you have.

But the simple matter is that I am not trolling, I am not a 360 fanboy and I'm not trying to start a console war. I am a RPG fanatic and if you want proof, I'll send you pics of my collection of over 100 RPGs that are in the majority on the Playstation 1 and Playstation 2. So please stop trying to put labels on everything since somethings in this world fall into the level of 'greys', one being which is me since I don't prefer any console over the other (besides the Genesis over the SNES when I was a kid) and only support software rather than hardware. I own all the consoles and have two debugs kits (PS3 and 360) and I'm a freelance journalist so I have no need to play favorites since majority of console fanatics only own one console and usually try to justify why they only own that one.

Any other questions? If so, I highly advise sending me a private message like I always ask since cliffbo always enters into a thread raising the yellow flag trying to burn me at the stake for whatever reason. If this is how you treat new members, then maybe this is why the forums are slowly decreasing in activity. But if not, then lets just get back on subject about Square-Enix.

I can't believe you all cried foul over my asking a fellow member if he owned other consoles and if he did, if he would buy Square-Enix products on those select products. Gosh, it must be a slow news day for everyone.

Diresu
12-17-2008, 01:40 AM
Do you have a 360? If so, will you be buying Star Ocean: The Last Hope? Do you have a Wii? If so, why won't you be buying Dragon Quest X? What about Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles or Soul Eater for the Wii? Do you have a PSP? If so, will you be buying Dissidia?


Star Ocean I will buy but that's not a Square game, that is an has always been an Enix game. DQX, no Wii, no interest in getting one, CC is to kiddy and I abhor the art and I might rent dissidia.

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 01:51 AM
Star Ocean I will buy but that's not a Square game, that is an has always been an Enix game. DQX, no Wii, no interest in getting one, CC is to kiddy and I abhor the art and I might rent dissidia.

I am sure you know, but Dragon Quest has always been an Enix game too. I wonder when the next Grandia title hits (not the mmo) which console Square-Enix will put it on. Anyone have any info on the secret MMO S-E is developing? Maybe it's Game Arts' Grandia MMO? I haven't been following closely since I wasn't a fan of FFXI on the PS2/360/PC though my friends were and one still is.

Diresu
12-17-2008, 01:55 AM
I am sure you know, but Dragon Quest has always been an Enix game too. I wonder when the next Grandia title hits (not the mmo) which console Square-Enix will put it on. Anyone have any info on the secret MMO S-E is developing? Maybe it's Game Arts' Grandia MMO? I haven't been following closely since I wasn't a fan of FFXI on the PS2/360/PC though my friends were and one still is.

Problem is that I don't want to buy a wii so I might play DQX at my friend's place but I have no reason to own a Wii as the only game I wanted on it was Fire Emblem, which was disappointing compared to the hand held versions.

jaxmkii
12-17-2008, 02:01 AM
for fucks sake go tea bag something in halo allready...

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 02:03 AM
for fucks sake go tea bag something in halo allready...

sure thing man, whatever you say. Thanks for contributing to the community, we appreciate all the kind words you have towards other members.:wave:

GTAce
12-17-2008, 02:09 AM
FUCK i just heard from DQX on Wii because of this thread here, FUCK!!!!

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 02:22 AM
FUCK i just heard from DQX on Wii because of this thread here, FUCK!!!!

LOL, I am sorry. But if you think about it, they don't have to do too much to put it on the Wii in terms of graphics so this allows them to be lazy in terms of the technical department. The only thing that concerns me is their ability to use the Wii MotionPlus controls and make it an interactive game. I still would've liked to see it on a next-gen console, but there's still hope for Kingdom Hearts to show up on either of the three (PS3/PC/Xbox 360) but I have my doubts with their current decisions and the market that KH aims for.

The only way I would ever be happy with Square-Enix giving KH to the Wii is if they published a new Chrono title and that's not going to happen.

GTAce
12-17-2008, 02:27 AM
I dont give a damn about KH, i just wanted my DQ. :cry2:

I hope WKC wont disappoint....

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 02:31 AM
I hope WKC wont disappoint....

Same here, there's truly not enough RPGs coming out like there was on the PS2 and what's currently being released on the handhelds.

GTAce
12-17-2008, 02:33 AM
My problem is that i am not a RPG fan at all.
I loved FF7 and even more 8 i played FFX but it wasnt all that great.
DQ8 blew me away and i always wanted this feeling with PS3 worthy graphics, sound and scale....

Diresu
12-17-2008, 02:36 AM
Same here, there's truly not enough RPGs coming out like there was on the PS2 and what's currently being released on the handhelds.

This is my biggest issue with this gen so far. Major lack of jrpgs. Thank god for the abundance of them on ps2. I just got Persona 4 in.

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 02:40 AM
This is my biggest issue with this gen so far. Major lack of jrpgs. Thank god for the abundance of them on ps2. I just got Persona 4 in.

That's awesome, I reviewed Persona 4 last month on their debug copy they sent me. Found it to be an excellent game and better than Persona 3. Actually, Persona 4 is the best RPG this year and since the start of the next-generation of consoles.

Red_Eyes
12-17-2008, 05:35 AM
I truly hope Star Ocean 4 is the game that turns around the boat for Square-Enix. If not, they might just have to resurrect the remake of FF7 and bring back the Chrono series again to show that they have it again.The graphics looks great. The realtime battle should be fun. But from the looks of it, seems like the storyline is going to be boring and sucky. I just can't stand a JRPG with a sucky storyline.


LOL, I am sorry. But if you think about it, they don't have to do too much to put it on the Wii in terms of graphics so this allows them to be lazy in terms of the technical department.See. I knew SE was just being lazy this generation. Just look at what Capcom has achieved in the same amount of time as SE. It's not Sony's fault. It's SE's President's fault.

OmniStalgic
12-17-2008, 05:49 AM
I loved Star Ocean battle system, but yeah, another one of the crappy stories is out of the question, I just don't have the time anymore. If I'm gonna sit down with something, it can't be forced.

I need a compelling story like Uncharted or something.

Diresu
12-17-2008, 05:53 AM
I still think Star Ocean 2 is the best in the series and is actually one of my favorite RPG's on any system.

Good to hear that Persona 4 is better then 3. 3 to me was near perfection though, easily my favorite RPG on ps2.

Red_Eyes
12-17-2008, 05:57 AM
exactly, it's cranked up more than it ever has... and on top of that we get trolled by 360 fans. it's not on

Well, when they have no good exclusive on their system, and Gears 2 multi-player is fucked up, and their 360 are RRODing, they gotta take out their anger on someone, namely Sony.

OmniStalgic
12-17-2008, 06:17 AM
We should learn to respect each other more...really. I think it could help out the entire community. I've actually made friends here.

Dragon Quest is a little too traditional for me, but I'm hoping Star Ocean comes to PS3. I really don't have time to play a whole lot of games though. So just port over the good stuff. (Star Ocean, ToV, Fable 2?!!:shifty:lol)

I here that a lot actually. But just like Suikoden 2 or FF6 I just can't go back to some of those old games anymore. It just hurts my eyes, and my imagination is never lifted high enough off the screen so that I don't realize I'm playing 2D pixel men walking around with text boxes.

Red_Eyes
12-17-2008, 07:50 AM
We should learn to respect each other more...really. I think it could help out the entire community. I've actually made friends here.

Dragon Quest is a little too traditional for me, but I'm hoping Star Ocean comes to PS3. I really don't have time to play a whole lot of games though. So just port over the good stuff. (Star Ocean, ToV, Fable 2?!!:shifty:lol)

I here that a lot actually. But just like Suikoden 2 or FF6 I just can't go back to some of those old games anymore. It just hurts my eyes, and my imagination is never lifted high enough off the screen so that I don't realize I'm playing 2D pixel men walking around with text boxes.
Here, +rep for you.

Luis
12-17-2008, 08:53 AM
Dakota, tone down your posts. Some people here, you included, are taking things too seriously.

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 03:02 PM
Dakota, tone down your posts. Some people here, you included, are taking things too seriously.

I will make sure never to directly ask another member if he owns a Wii again. It's important we let those Wii owners be anonymous by your direction.:guns:

Thanks VG, I will live every week like it's shark week in my life! You are so right. How dare I ask a member a personal question ;)

Luis
12-17-2008, 03:09 PM
There have been complaints about your attitude in this thread, and that last post isn't nice either. Take that as a first warning.

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 03:15 PM
There have been complaints about your attitude in this thread, and that last post isn't nice either. Take that as a first warning.

right right. This airplane has found its course after the turbulence so please don't come here and mix things up again. People finally started talking about Square-Enix again, no need to come in here and play sheriff.

and as a mod, it's better if you PM me about situation that may arise since I used to be one myself and it's much more professional as Viper once agreed to make these matters private. Thanks!

As for Square-Enix, anybody wish the Gooch was still with Square-Enix?

GTAce
12-17-2008, 03:25 PM
Wow man, dont tell people how they should make their "job".

Luis
12-17-2008, 03:32 PM
right right. This airplane has found its course after the turbulence so please don't come here and mix things up again. People finally started talking about Square-Enix again, no need to come in here and play sheriff.

and as a mod, it's better if you PM me about situation that may arise since I used to be one myself and it's much more professional as Viper once agreed to make these matters private. Thanks!

The problem is not just yours, it's everyone's. Everyone has to keep this thread friendly, and just PMing you isn't going to solve the issues here.

Now, back on topic or I'll be locking this thread.

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 03:37 PM
Now, back on topic

:) Yes, as for my last post, if you don't know who The Gooch is, it's Sakaguchi, the creator of Final Fantasy series. Anybody miss his touch on video games at S-E? Or is the company better off w/o him?

Viper
12-17-2008, 04:33 PM
That's all I have to say.

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/113_ProdigalSon.jpg

XboxEvolved
12-17-2008, 04:52 PM
Well another simple fact is, is Square needs to make sure they make games on the right systems that sell, and they are also a Japanese developer, and like nearly all other Japanese developers are struggling to keep up this generation.

AC!D: I can tell you right now Phil Harrison had nothing to do with those three games coming to ATARI. They were both going to be announced before he came to ATARI.

AC!D why are you going to blame Microsoft and Nintendo? It isn't their fault that Square wants to do business with them or that they are better at doing business with Square than Sony is.

Anyways the simple fact remains, Japanese developers are seriously lacking. While last gen was ruled by the Japanese, American developers rape this generation.

Look at any decently developed Japanese next-gen title (like RE5, MGS4) and they have American studios backing them up. Another big thing about it is, is because the PC gaming industry isn't followed as much in Japan, so therefore the technology behind it isn't, that they have kind of fallen back.

So why is it that all the footage you have seen for RE5, and the demo is only on 360? Why does Square and so many Japanese developers make games on 360 first, or at the same time of PS3? It is because that even though both systems have been tough to wrestle with for these developers, the 360 has been by far the easiest. I don't, and I don't think Japanese developers give a shit about if there is some magical unlocked power in the CELL cpu or whatever, they care about results that aren't going to fuck up their bottom line, and will allow them to create wonderful games the way they want to, and make money while doing it.

Then there is DS. DS has sold crap loads more than PS3, so why would you make a title on PSN over DS? Why wouldn't Dragon Quest, a game popular in Japan, be on the most popular console in Japan? It was last gen, so why not this gen?

I don't understand why you guys debate these things in the first place. Maybe if you gained some common sense, then you wouldn't feel the need to debate it.

JasonXe
12-17-2008, 05:55 PM
speaking of square, they release a new trailer of star ocean.

http://www.eurogamer.pt/tv_video.php?playlist_id=19157

Ya-taaa!!!

http://www.cheaptelevision.co.uk/images/Hiro%20Nakamura.jpg

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 06:00 PM
speaking of square, they release a new trailer of star ocean.

http://www.eurogamer.pt/tv_video.php?playlist_id=19157

Ya-taaa!!!

http://www.cheaptelevision.co.uk/images/Hiro%20Nakamura.jpg

hey! I posted this picture last week in a thread lol. Don't be stealing my ideas mon!

JasonXe
12-17-2008, 06:08 PM
but i added ya taaaa to it.

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 06:37 PM
but i added ya taaaa to it.

lol, all right. you have a point. Square-Enix should get the rights to a Heroes game and I'll be happy. Ubisoft canceled development for their own personal reasons, so screw them.

AC!D
12-17-2008, 10:37 PM
Could someone please move this thread to the x-box evolved forums please? Thanks in advance.

cliffbo
12-17-2008, 10:39 PM
Could someone please move this thread to the x-box evolved forums please? Thanks in advance.

that would be a great idea AC!D.

Luis
12-17-2008, 10:45 PM
I'll just take it out from here. Multiplatform company, multiplatform forum.

XboxEvolved
12-17-2008, 10:47 PM
That is a wise decision.

cliffbo
12-17-2008, 10:51 PM
just one last comment and i know this is going to annoy some people but it is relevant to these forums: devs are doing things to try and get the PS3 community to move outside of the PS3 forums, while accepting Nintendo and 360 owners with open arms (and why not) but isn't asking PS3 owners to venture out of their own forums the same as the US government allowing Mexicans to enter the US and then telling the Americans to go to Mexico?

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 10:58 PM
just one last comment and i know this is going to annoy some people but it is relevant to these forums: devs are doing things to try and get the PS3 community to move outside of the PS3 forums, while accepting Nintendo and 360 owners with open arms (and why not) but isn't asking PS3 owners to venture out of their own forums the same as the US government allowing Mexicans to enter the US and then telling the Americans to go to Mexico?

this is an unnecessary analogy that might end up pissing off a few Hispanic members. That's all I'll say about this.

cliffbo
12-17-2008, 11:07 PM
oh, the irony of that post will be totally lost to you i feel LOL

XboxEvolved
12-17-2008, 11:08 PM
hey man they don't have to pay taxes for 6 months so fuck'em.

Anyways I don't think we have any that super mexican on these forums, except Jason but I don't think he is mexican.

Anyways that is an unneeded analogy, simply because most people buy the PlayStation 3, Wii, or Xbox 360 like it is a toy and nothing else; you buy it like you just donated to your church. These are the vital differences in the majority and the minority that play games.

Also only way you will ever catch me in Mexico is if shit goes down like in "Day After Tomorrow"

Dakota Grabowski
12-17-2008, 11:10 PM
oh, the irony of that post will be totally lost to you i feel LOL

I have a feeling you don't know much about the Latin American cultures.

cliffbo
12-17-2008, 11:13 PM
lol...

XboxEvolved
12-17-2008, 11:15 PM
What does a fat chick and a Pinto have in common?

Red_Eyes
12-18-2008, 10:07 AM
lol, all right. you have a point. Square-Enix should get the rights to a Heroes game and I'll be happy. Ubisoft canceled development for their own personal reasons, so screw them.

No! Not a Heroes game! A great series ruined by stupid writers! There's no way SE can fix such ruinage. Unless the three producers from Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Vagrant Story, and Xenogears come together and work on it.

Red_Eyes
12-18-2008, 10:08 AM
What does a fat chick and a Pinto have in common?

The same thing a pig and Sarah Palin have in common: lipstick.

JasonXe
12-18-2008, 03:48 PM
pigggiiies btw im not mexican.

Red_Eyes
12-19-2008, 03:04 AM
I hate how they always move interesting threads to the multi-platform sections to die...

XboxEvolved
12-19-2008, 03:27 AM
Actually Red Eyes about my joke, no...you know nothing on contextual commentary.

Anyways, it doesn't have to die just because it is in here. Do you not feel safe here?

err_ok
12-19-2008, 03:46 AM
^ Would you feel safe between planetary bodies.


I have no idea why i thought to post that.

Viper
12-19-2008, 04:56 PM
I hate how they always move interesting threads to the multi-platform sections to die...
I hate how the PS3 patrons leave everything else to die.


Yes, that was just sarcasm but the point is if you'd move beyond just that one board, they wouldn't have that problem you mentioned.

XboxEvolved
12-19-2008, 08:27 PM
personally, being a fella that prefers the 360 I would rather post in multi-platform still. More interesting, na-mean?

Red_Eyes
12-19-2008, 08:30 PM
I hate how the PS3 patrons leave everything else to die.


Yes, that was just sarcasm but the point is if you'd move beyond just that one board, they wouldn't have that problem you mentioned.
Whenever a thread moved outside the the PSINext forum, it dies... for me. It is no longer accessible directly from where it was before, and because of that, many peoples, including myself, usually forget about it in no time which means the conversation stops, and the thread dies.

Red_Eyes
12-19-2008, 08:35 PM
Actually Red Eyes about my joke, no...you know nothing on contextual commentary.

Well, actually, I misread your joke. I thought it was "What does a fat chick and a pig have in common? But if I have to explain it, then it ain't funny no more.

Anyways, it doesn't have to die just because it is in here. Do you not feel safe here?I don't.


Anyways, it doesn't have to die just because it is in here.
It is not very accessible. Why not keep it in both the multiplatform section and the PSINext section. Most PSINexters don't venture out into the other sections. So if the mods keep it within the PSINext section too, the thread would continue living. I mean, it's not my fault that most PSINexters still feels like PSINext is its own PSINext and not part of E-mpire. Seriously, most PSINexters don't vernture out into the other sections. And you can try to force them by moving the thread, but that'll just means the thread die, and PSINexters still stays in PSINext.

woundingchaney
12-19-2008, 11:55 PM
PSINext is a part of an overall forum. Threads should be placed in the appropriate area. The concept of people not willing or unable to move their mouse in order to access different threads that deal with different subjects is completely ignorant. This is a common procedure in every message board that I have ever visited.



I hate how they always move interesting threads to the multi-platform sections to die...

I hate how PSINext has de-evolved over the years to represent little more than a fanboy fiasco. There is next to no legitimate discussions outside of circle jerking and back patting. PSINext is nothing close to the forum it was 3-4 years ago.

JasonXe
12-19-2008, 11:58 PM
i don't think any orange mods control this section either. The super mods and admins have the same power everywhere i think.

cliffbo
12-20-2008, 12:15 AM
console owners should support their console by posting and responding to articles in their respective forums

Viper
12-20-2008, 12:51 AM
Well, actually, I misread your joke. I thought it was "What does a fat chick and a pig have in common? But if I have to explain it, then it ain't funny no more.
I don't.


It is not very accessible. Why not keep it in both the multiplatform section and the PSINext section. Most PSINexters don't venture out into the other sections. So if the mods keep it within the PSINext section too, the thread would continue living. I mean, it's not my fault that most PSINexters still feels like PSINext is its own PSINext and not part of E-mpire. Seriously, most PSINexters don't vernture out into the other sections. And you can try to force them by moving the thread, but that'll just means the thread die, and PSINexters still stays in PSINext.
Use the New Posts button at the top in the menu.

You'll never miss anything and it helps you expand beyond that one board.

The way I do it is hit New Posts and middle click each thread of interest which opens them in a new tab. This way you don't miss anything yet don't have to venture where you don't want to either.

cliffbo
12-20-2008, 01:44 AM
why is it that it's always incumbent upon PS3 owners to diversify? why is the PS3 section the most popular when i constantly read it's in third place? i don't get it and i never will.

Viper
12-20-2008, 01:50 AM
It's on them to diversify because they are now, and have been for years now, a part of something bigger overall.

It's also the most popular because Xbox-Evolved didn't have nearly the same sized forum as PSInext and NNow was more general discussion and console, not just so console focused.

It's also the fact that the PSInsiders stay so focused on that one board while the others spread their discussion among many boards.

I'm not sayign you guys are wrong for staying in there but don't get pissed when a multi-console thread or a tech thread gets moved accordingly.

JasonXe
12-20-2008, 02:22 AM
you got to diversify your profilo!

We get more interesting discussions from different perspectives and more activity on each forum from sharing. It's boring having a group of people patting themselves on the back. I also support multiconsolism (my word) because it destroys ignorance. I wonder how a one gaming forum would work while keeping the individual game forum (gears, lbp, etc)?

Red_Eyes
12-20-2008, 03:13 AM
use the New Posts buton at the top in the menu.

You'll never miss anything and it helps you expand beyond that one board.

The way I do it is hit New Posts and middle click each thread of interest which opens them in a new tab. This way you don't miss anything yet don't have to venture where you don't want to either.Hmm... Never noticed that button before. Thanks.

XboxEvolved
12-20-2008, 06:00 AM
Well at one point Xbox Evolved's forums were bumping in a original version of it we had more members than E-mpire and we had about the same activity. This is when Xbox wasn't really doing so well, not as many games as say on PS2, etc so the fans were there to keep it going strong.

This same thing has happened with PS3, and this is why you see such a PS3 fan prevalence not just on E-mpire forums, but across the net. Check out n4g.com and there is a perfect example. The entire thing is basically viewer ran, and if you talk about PS3 in anyway on that site it typically gets a lot of hits.

These articles also tend to be PS3 fans stroking themselves.

Segitz
12-20-2008, 11:31 AM
This same thing has happened with PS3, and this is why you see such a PS3 fan prevalence not just on E-mpire forums, but across the net. Check out n4g.com and there is a perfect example. The entire thing is basically viewer ran, and if you talk about PS3 in anyway on that site it typically gets a lot of hits.

I am not sure, which sections you are reading at N4G, but in my view, it is pretty well balanced between morons of both consoles (360 AND PS3), while the Wii... no one seems to care^^

I read less 360 articles, as I am not as interested in it, but when the "comparison" articles come up, there are always posts "360 looks much better" vs. "it looks the same" posts. And they equal out^^ (even in retardedness!!!)


But, to be honest, I usually never venture far from the PS3 boards, as I have limited time, so I limit what I look at, but the general video games discussions will always get read by me. I don't post much here, but I read it! So Vipers movement works... at least for me^^

Viper
12-21-2008, 01:10 AM
Hmm... Never noticed that button before. Thanks.

I'd never be able to watch over this place if I went from board to board to board. New Posts button + Tabs = Happy Administrator.

Red_Eyes
12-24-2008, 06:39 PM
See what I mean? This thread is dead already.

woundingchaney
12-24-2008, 08:48 PM
why is it that it's always incumbent upon PS3 owners to diversify? why is the PS3 section the most popular when i constantly read it's in third place? i don't get it and i never will.

Most likely because forums and the internet in general do not reflect the success of any given console. If such were the case then the Wii would be in last place and everyone would of bought LBP.

It is not necessary for PS3 owners/posters to "diversify", though if they wish to speak about a topic that is not inherently PS3 centric then they need to go outside of the PS3 forum.

TrueVCU
12-24-2008, 11:41 PM
See what I mean? This thread is dead already.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Einland/BeatDeadHorse.gif

Red_Eyes
12-28-2008, 09:32 AM
Die, horse. Die!

Red_Eyes
01-06-2009, 03:47 AM
*crickets*

JasonXe
01-06-2009, 04:05 AM
death to horsey!!

Oriscot
03-06-2009, 07:54 PM
The inital sales figures for Star Ocean 4 are out at VG charts: http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=23447

Two questions:
1) Do you think the sales are good?
2) Do you think the current sales will improve or worsen the likelihood that this will come to the PS3.

Let's keep this as analytical as possible. I don't want to discuss whether this should/ should not have come out on the 360.
Here are my thoughts:
The sales are better than i expected they would be in Japan, and about what I expected in the US. I think this game will probably hit 500-700K, which would not be enough to break even. Based on this, I think it will come to the PS3 in 8-12 months.

curryking1
03-06-2009, 09:03 PM
I think there is something up here other than performance of sales because releasing Star Ocean IV on both the PS3 and 360 is clearly better than releasing it on just the 360.

Is anyone going to argue that ignoring 20 million consoles is a good decision? When in the past everyone decided that releasing on multiple systems is always a more financially sound decision for third parties (I don't think it always is, but I think more often than not it is true)? And that in the past the bases for each console were much lower as well?

It doesn't matter to what degree SOIV performs on the 360, it certainly would've performed better on both systems.

The choice to not release it on the PS3 as well is complete retardation, no less. SE is so retarded in fact that it is completely useless for us to try and predict their future actions/inactions. I think arguing this one way or another as to what will happen will simply waste our energy.

It should be left at "SE is retarded." If SE doesn't act rationally we cannot be rational in trying to predict their actions.

Exclusivity = higher sales performance. Test negative.
Exclusivity = Infinite Undiscovery does poorly as an exclusive. Test Negative.
Exclusivity = Last Remnant, an earlier game than SOIV, is releasing on PS3 sometime only God knows when where SOIV releasing after is not planned at all for the PS3. Test negative.
Exclusivity = UE3 engine is cross platform. Test negative.
Exclusivity = Playstation 3 starved of RPGs/has almost only a single good RPG to compete with which isn't even very popular/a market to take advantage of. Test negative.

P.S. If we were talking about 'What will CAPCOM do?" then we could discuss something. But CAPCOM isn't doing anything of the sort that needs to be discussed.

Oriscot
03-06-2009, 10:42 PM
Yes, SE is retarded.

But the question is--as Robert Downey Jr might say--"did they go full retard, or just half retard". (This will make no sense if you haven't seen Tropic Thunder"

Releasing it on the 360 first was half retarded. Not releasing it on the playstation is fully retarded...

curryking1
03-06-2009, 11:00 PM
I guess I'm on putting them on full retard. Maybe that's premature, I don't know. SE has done... enough by now. I don't know if you saw or missed my little list a few pages back in this thread.

After all that has been done SE needs to be assessed a bit differently. They are now part of the class that is 'guilty until proven innocent.'

Dakota Grabowski
03-08-2009, 04:02 PM
Let's see if The Last Remnant does any sales on the PC before they decide to commit to putting more work on PS3 versions of it and SO4.

SadPanda
03-08-2009, 06:30 PM
Lets face it Last Remnant or Star Ocean won't compare to a full on FF release. SE knows this, and so do we. So hopefully they are taking their collective time making them great games instead of half-assed retreads.

curryking1
03-10-2009, 09:21 PM
What the deuce... I was just flipping channels and I saw a Star Ocean advertisement during WWE... the WWE announcers were announcing sponsors and the name Square Enix comes up with a logo of Star Ocean IV...

It's a sad day for the Squaresoft fan... :'(

And I got another e-mail from Square-Enix containing information on like a bunch of DS games and one game, not even just RPG, for PS3... Disgaea 3... wow...