PDA

View Full Version : PS2 upscaling problems: what is up?!!



Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 06:23 PM
Alright, I have firmware 1.90 on the console and inserted GT4. Before booting up the game, I turned the upscale option "ON" and messed around w/ the fullscreen and smoothing options.

However, the games aren't upscaling resolution at all. They're simply remaining at the default resolutions (640x480).

So what's up; what am I doing wrong? Does the console actually upscale the resolution of the PS2 games or not?!

Clixx
08-19-2007, 06:56 PM
Why do you bother with upscaling ? Doesn't GT4 support 1080i ?

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 07:08 PM
Why do you bother with upscaling ? Doesn't GT4 support 1080i ?



........

*ahem*
Um..again, can anyone help out here? The options are turned on, yet none of my PS2 games are upscaling in resolution.

Somebody?

Nameless
08-19-2007, 07:44 PM
Make sure you do not have progressive scan enabled in the PS2 game.
(If the game supports 480P)

If you utilize progressive scan or any video settings in the PS2 the PS3 upscaling features will not work. The only exception to this rule is the GOW2 secret video setting...

I'm assuming you own an HD display, because the upscalling obviously will not work on an SD display...

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 07:52 PM
Make sure you do not have progressive scan enabled in the PS2 game.
(If the game supports 480P)

If you utilize progressive scan or any video settings in the PS2 the PS3 upscaling features will not work. The only exception to this rule is the GOW2 secret video setting...

I'm assuming you own an HD display, because the upscalling obviously will not work on an SD display...

Yep, I do own an HDTV

Hmmn, okay, maybe I should have said Ico or TXR: Zero.
How 'bout that; replace GT4 with these games instead, because it doesn't seem to be working with any.

Is there solution to this? I see dozens of pics online with PS2/PSOne games upscaled in resolution from their default displays. So...........again...........what is wrong here? Why isn't it working?

Is this all a fraud, or does this system actually upscale the resolution of these old games to 720p?

BTW, what is the GOW2 secret vid setting?

Nameless
08-19-2007, 08:07 PM
^ I would recommend going into your PS3 video settings and making sure automatic detection is selected and do not select manual resolutions.
I'm not sure if you force the resolution to 1080i if that could cause issues with the PS2 upscaling. I would recommend you set the system resolution to 720P or 1080P if your display supports it... Also, I have not tried the upscaling settings with component cables, because the feature may only be supported via HDMI.
(I doubt this, but plausible...)

The GOW2 secret setting is not actually HD resolution, but it's slightly higher than 480P which makes the setting more HD display friendly. (640x448 resolution)

To enable the mode press and hold L1, L2, L3, Square and Circle as you boot up the game. If done correctly the Sony entertainment information will appear in pink/purple.

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 08:16 PM
^ I would recommend going into your PS3 video settings and making sure automatic detection is selected and do not select manual resolutions.
I'm not sure if you force the resolution to 1080i if that could cause issues with the PS2 upscaling. I would recommend you set the system resolution to 720P or 1080P if your display supports it... Also, I have not tried the upscaling settings with component cables, because the feature may only be supported via HDMI.
(I doubt this, but plausible...)

The GOW2 secret setting is not actually HD resolution, but it's slightly higher than 480P which makes the setting more HD display friendly. (640x448 resolution)

To enable the mode press and hold L1, L2, L3, Square and Circle as you boot up the game. If done correctly the Sony entertainment information will appear in pink/purple.

Just tried it in my video settings; optimizing it to "automatic" and booted up the game.

Didn't work.

Nameless
08-19-2007, 08:18 PM
^ I will check my settings...
Give me a minute.

Are you using component or HDMI?

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 08:19 PM
^ I will check my settings...
Give me a minute.

Are you using component or HDMI?

HDMI

user friendly
08-19-2007, 08:22 PM
Sounds odd, I get mine to upscale to 1080p. So you check the the tv's display to see whether or not it say 720p (or whatever your trying to upscale it to) or are you just going by eye?

It doesn't stretch the game or zoom to fit or anything like that. So you still get the black bars around the image. I stretch or zoom with mine but sometimes I just leave it so I can see the black bars but it still says 1080p when I press the display button on my tv remote.

Some people don't think it's upscaling because you can still see the black border but in fact it is upscaling.

Nameless
08-19-2007, 08:30 PM
^^ Make sure under BD/DVD settings that DVD upscaler is on & BD/DVD video Output Format (HDMI) is set to automatic. Also, try a standard DVD and see if your TV outputs at 720P/1080i. If you still can't get the upscaling to work properly make sure your firmware is up to date and contact Sony, because it could be a hardware issue...

* You could try a restore PS3 System, but I would not recommend this, because you lose anything saved on the hard drive.*

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 08:31 PM
Sounds odd, I get mine to upscale to 1080p. So you check the the tv's display to see whether or not it say 720p (or whatever your trying to upscale it to) or are you just going by eye?

It doesn't stretch the game or zoom to fit or anything like that. So you still get the black bars around the image. I stretch or zoom with mine but sometimes I just leave it so I can see the black bars but it still says 1080p when I press the display button on my tv remote.

Yeah, that's the weird thing.

On the display setting of the TV, it reads either 720p or 1080i (depending on what I'm upscaling to). But the game itself isn't actually upscaled, it's the exact same default resolution and not upscaled at all. However, the "PS" gray UI logo when switching to a PS2 game actually is upscaled in resolution. You can tell because the text is exponentially smaller in comparison to when it's in 480i/480p.

I have a PSOne/PS2 emulators for PC that actually upscales the older games and it's a world of a difference visually. But when I do this on the PS3, it's not changed at all. Plus I'm constantly working w/ high resolutions at work (720p and up), so I know what I'm looking at/for most definitely.

'tis getting frustrating, man.

user friendly
08-19-2007, 08:33 PM
Yeah, that's the weird thing.

On the display setting of the TV, it reads either 720p or 1080i (depending on what I'm upscaling to). But the game itself isn't actually upscaled, it's the exact same default resolution and not upscaled at all. However, the "PS" gray UI logo when switching to a PS2 game actually is upscaled in resolution. You can tell because the text is exponentially smaller in comparison to when it's in 480i/480p.

If it says 720p on your tv display then it's working (upscaling). It just won't magically make it a widescreen game if the original game isn't in 16:9 format.

But GT4 should be working to how you want it too, because it's 16:9. Are you sure you have it set up in the GT4 menu as 16:9?

Nameless
08-19-2007, 08:36 PM
^^ Wait a minute!
Are you saying that your display output says 720P or 1080i and you just don't see improved image quality? The upscaler does not really modify the actual image it just outputs at the higher resolution. The only feature that really effects image quality is the smoother and the results vary based on the game.

Damn man I thought your display was not giving you an HD output...
This was a big waste of time we can close this thread down. :closed:

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 08:39 PM
^^ Make sure under BD/DVD settings that DVD upscaler is on & BD/DVD video Output Format (HDMI) is set to automatic. Also, try a standard DVD and see if your TV outputs at 720P/1080i. If you still can't get the upscaling to work properly make sure your firmware is up to date and contact Sony, because it could be a hardware issue...

* You could try a restore PS3 System, but I would not recommend this, because you lose anything saved on the hard drive.*


TXR: Zero
Well the antialiasing option (smoothing) works
Resolution upscaling however still doesn't. I know WTF is up. :rant:

user friendly
08-19-2007, 08:39 PM
A lot of people see the black border and immediately think it's not working or not really upscaling.


Resolution upscaling however still doesn't. I know WTF is up. :rant:

Trust me, it's upscaling.

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 08:43 PM
^^ Wait a minute!
Are you saying that your display output says 720P or 1080i and you just don't see improved image quality? The upscaler does not really modify the actual image it just outputs at the higher resolution. The only feature that really effects image quality is the smoother and the results vary based on the game.

Damn man I thought your display was not giving you an HD output...
This was a big waste of time we can close this thread down. :closed:

That's the problem. IT'S NOT INCREASING THE RESOLUTION OF THE GAME.
The TV SAYS it's 720p when I press the display option on the remote control. And the PS UI increased in res also.

But the actual game's display has not. It's still low res.

Nameless
08-19-2007, 08:44 PM
^ If your display says 720P or 1080i then you are good even if you don't see a difference... The upscaling on the PS3 only provides a marginal improvement for PS2 titles. The DVD upscaling actually does a solid job and is on par with current BD players. The PS2 was not really designed to natively support HD resolutions. The only title that even attempted to display at HD resolutions was GT4 and even that title does not natively output at 1280X720.

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 08:46 PM
A lot of people see the black border and immediately think it's not working or not really upscaling.



Trust me, it's upscaling.

The black border is irrelevant, as I know it has to do with the aspect ratio of the corresponding game.

I tested out Black on the X360 and it's blatantly obvious that the game is increased in resolution. However, I did the same for the PS2 version of Black on the PS3 and it's not even remotely comparable.

The X360 ver. is displayed at 1280x720 yet the PS3 ver. is STILL at only 640x480.

Nameless
08-19-2007, 08:51 PM
^ The 360 does a much better job upscaling games, but remember most Xbox games supported 480P standard. Also, there were a few Xbox games that actually supported 720P resolutions... I don't think even the 360 is truely upscaling games to true HD res (1280X720) but the output is higher than 640X480 so it looks better on HD displays.

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 09:08 PM
^ The 360 does a much better job upscaling games, but remember most Xbox games supported 480P standard. Also, there were a few Xbox games that actually supported 720P resolutions... I don't think even the 360 is truely upscaling games to true HD res (1280X720) but the output is higher than 640X480 so it looks better on HD displays.

From what I'm seeing here, the PS3 isn't upscaling at all, so the 360 is a no comparison at this point. The display is brighter, the game isn't low resolution in display output, it's quite simply upscaled as does the emulators for my PC.

The PS3 doesn't seem to do much other than add AA. Because other than that, it's blatantly displaying a lower resolution, comparable to when running on a stock PS2.

This is just pissing me off. Why call it upscaling when it's not doing it at all?! Misleading as fuck, man. :rant:

Nameless
08-19-2007, 09:12 PM
^ Agreed...
Considering the output is at a higher resolution they feel justified calling it upscalling, but the native resolution of the image is not really impacted.

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 09:31 PM
^ Agreed...
Considering the output is at a higher resolution they feel justified calling it upscalling, but the native resolution of the image is not really impacted.

Wow, this seriously took the wind out of my sails for this console, man.

I have so many titles for the PS2 and looked forward to seeing them at a higher resolution output so that I didn't have to farm for emulators on my PC any longer. As of right now, there's barely anything worth playing for the PS3 and this would've held me satisfied for quite a long while.

If this is the case, it's the second time Sony has half-assed the "upgrades" for backwards compatibility. Jeezus, even the Dreamcast's Bleem was able to upscale PSOne games properly.

I'm guessing that most of the pics online displaying GOW at 1280x720 resolution are actually taken from PC emulators and not the PS3 at all.

curryking1
08-19-2007, 09:41 PM
If I'm not mistaken, running a game in a new and higher resolution is not the same as upscaling a game?

For example, upscaling a DVD to 1080p is not the same as a video with a source quality of 1080p?

Cpi?

lips
08-19-2007, 09:50 PM
upscaling is more difficult for ps2 games as ps2 gpu was 2560 bit, and ps3 gpu is 512 bit. I believe in reference to xbox we have a 64bit gpu l2 cache in the original, ofcourse upgraded to 256+256bit in the 360. not 100% on the xbox though... :) so don't be too critical on sony, they are exceeding expectations already with their compatibility.

Sephiroth_VII
08-19-2007, 10:08 PM
Wow, this seriously took the wind out of my sails for this console, man.

I have so many titles for the PS2 and looked forward to seeing them at a higher resolution output so that I didn't have to farm for emulators on my PC any longer. As of right now, there's barely anything worth playing for the PS3 and this would've held me satisfied for quite a long while.

If this is the case, it's the second time Sony has half-assed the "upgrades" for backwards compatibility. Jeezus, even the Dreamcast's Bleem was able to upscale PSOne games properly.

I'm guessing that most of the pics online displaying GOW at 1280x720 resolution are actually taken from PC emulators and not the PS3 at all.
No, they're taken from a PS3 running the game. I have played GoW2 on both 480p and 1080p on my PS3, and I do see the difference. The PS3 IS upscaling the game, but it can't magically improve the textures or something like that.

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 11:06 PM
No, they're taken from a PS3 running the game. I have played GoW2 on both 480p and 1080p on my PS3, and I do see the difference. The PS3 IS upscaling the game, but it can't magically improve the textures or something like that.

The display resolution is the issue. Not the in-game assets.

Olz
08-19-2007, 11:06 PM
Killing Moon you seem to fail to understand what the word "upscaling" truly means. Sony have not lied. Your PS3 is upscaling PS2 games and your TV is correctly reporting a 720p/1080i input signal.

The PS3 upscales the majority PS1 and PS2 games. This essentially means it takes every frame rendered (through software/hardware emulation at 480p) and then spreads the pixels from them them evenly apart into either a 1280x720 or a 1920x1080 pixel image (depending on TV resolution). Obviously there are gaps between the pixels because the original signal was only 640x480 pixels. This means the PS3 has to then fill in these gaps (using an algorithm) with something that makes the new higher resolution image look ok.

On the other hand you have the XBOX360. This renders a minority of the original XBOX games at higher resolutions (720p max through component). With both the original XBOX and XBOX360 being quite similar in architecture this is relatively easy to achieve however the PS2 had some pretty unique stuff in it so making the PS3 render PS2 games at a higher resolution is harder. This coupled with the fact that Sony makes hardware and Microsoft software you can see why Sony might be inclined to take the easier option to upscale rather than render at a higher resolution.

At the end of the day its up to you, lots of games without a substantial increase in visual quality or a few select games with a substantial increase in visual quality.



If I'm not mistaken, running a game in a new and higher resolution is not the same as upscaling a game?

For example, upscaling a DVD to 1080p is not the same as a video with a source quality of 1080p?

Cpi?
You are correct. Consider two pictures taken with a digital camera one at 2 megapixel and one at 4 megapixel. If each is displayed at 100% size the 4 megapixel one will fill more of the screen because there are more pixels. However if you wanted you could upscale the 2 megapixel one to 4 megapixels to make it take up the same amount on the screen. However the original 4 megapixel picture would look a lot better. To upscale the 2 megapixel picture the computer has generated pixels that it 'thinks' will fill in the gaps between the pixels from the original image. It is only guessing what may colour each pixel may be by looking at the ones surrounding it. It might be wrong when you look at the 4 megapixel image, but given the size of each pixel it probably won't be a huge difference.

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_scaler) may help if anyone is still unclear.

Killing Moon
08-19-2007, 11:13 PM
Hmmn, okay, gotcha.

So upscaling the image to fit the screen size and increasing the original resolution are two completely different things.

Gotcha.
Guess it's back to emulators. Still disappointing, still sucks ass, but I guess it is what it is, really.

Olz
08-19-2007, 11:25 PM
Glad that helped.

Just to clarify; upscaling the original game output resolution to fit the screen and rendering the game at a resolution to fit the screen are two different things. I'm sure you know what you meant, just me being annoying.

As far as the end result goes, I agree it does suck. I doubt Sony will ever go down the rendering root. I find that if anything PS2 games actually look worse on the PS3 than they did on the original PS2. To add to that, when you do decide to run them on the PS3 the frame rate is often dodgy or the game glitches. If you then turn on smoothing and upscaling you might as well not bother (anyone tried Ratchet and Clank or Tekken Tag...terrible). I just let my TV do the upscaling. Hopefully with time Sony will iron these problems out.

LaLiLuLeLo
08-20-2007, 01:28 AM
And that's a wrap. This was very constructive and added to my own edification as well, thanks Killing Moon and co.