Sony dOOmed!!!11!!!

[jaxmkii]

stcocks are down!

http://www.llbbl.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/sonystock.jpg














teh truff!!!

http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/10/ninteystocklarge.gif

[hevymac]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :drunks:

[BahnNZ]

I looked it up, MY GOD HE'S RIGHT!! SONY ARE DOOMED!!! DOOMED!! LOOK!!!

http://www.bhprojects.com/Media/sonystock2.jpg

LOOK HOW IT'S DROPPING FROM THE OCTOBER HIGH!!! DOOOOOMED!!!

[jaxmkii]

^ Lol

[Luis]

:dur:

[BahnNZ]

I didn't think PS3 had an air of doom until I saw the design for the new Eye Toy.

http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/thumb/c/c1/Eye_of_Sauron.jpg/180px-Eye_of_Sauron.jpg

Kinda scares me man....

[B Dizzle]

we getting Doom?

whens Doom coming?

|BRING ME TEH DOOOOOooOOOOOOM¬¬`¬!¬

[F089/H]

Oh Lawd! Repent! Repent!

[digital neXus]

Sony is not doomed, I bought PS3 finally!!!! :D :D :D :D lol
I saw todey early in the morning, about 3am GMT+1, on CNN, that Wii has conquered the market, behind it's SONY and M$. They've asked some woman that's in marketing business about M$ and SONY, and she said that SONY is somewhat in the stagnation for now. YEAH, BECAUSE WHEN THE GREAT GAMES COME, IT WILL KICK ASS ON BOTH CONSOLES. Only 6 month to go.

[Sypher]

ummmmmmm, Sony does have other divisions than entertainment, like movies and HDTV, sooooooooooooooooo, yeah, maybe this isnt all ps3 doing and maybe this thread should be closed, just saying...................

[venomv]

Come on guys.......This is moronic.....

I find it extremely unlikely this is the PS3 doing, it is doing nothing but losing money at this point, more like PS2, TV's, movies, and everything else that Sony makes.

[False_Messiah]

Alright, WE know that this chart isnt a "ps3 effect", but its pretty annoying this SoNy DoOmeD speech through videogame forums. Maybe a little of thruth can stop or silence it a bit...

[Viper]

To quote myself from another thread that has something to do with the above post.



Typically when the negtives refer to 'Sony' being doomed, they are referring to just the console division. Same with MS and their $7 billion in the hole Xbox project.

Who wants to write out, "ZOMG Sony Computer Entertainment is teh Doo0om3d" or "ZOMG Microsoft Entertainment and Devices Division is teh Doo0m3d!!!1!!"

[mario25]

I looked it up, MY GOD HE'S RIGHT!! SONY ARE DOOMED!!! DOOMED!! LOOK!!!

http://www.bhprojects.com/Media/sonystock2.jpg

LOOK HOW IT'S DROPPING FROM THE OCTOBER HIGH!!! DOOOOOMED!!!

:laugh:

[cliffbo]

+rep jax that's funny LOL

[Fats]

We are at a loss of the stcocks are truly down.

[SleazyBig slim]

Stocks are not down. Lock this thread for spreading mis information.

check the stock right now if you want.

www.cnnmoney.com Sony stock is still $53+ up nearly 75% over the past two years.

[Fats]

Stocks are not down. Lock this thread for spreading mis information.

check the stock right now if you want.

www.cnnmoney.com Sony stock is still $53+ up nearly 75% over the past two years.

LOL

[Z]

I am not an analyst (surprise) but someone suggested that the current operating loss for the gaming devision is 1.2 billion dollars.
I read in other news by canceling their semiconductor fabrication saves them around 2 billion dollars.

[mario25]

Stocks are not down. Lock this thread for spreading mis information.

check the stock right now if you want.

www.cnnmoney.com Sony stock is still $53+ up nearly 75% over the past two years.

OMG!!!! :spit:

EDIT: Why people are taking this seriously?......

[jaxmkii]

Stocks are not down. Lock this thread for spreading mis information.

check the stock right now if you want.

www.cnnmoney.com Sony stock is still $53+ up nearly 75% over the past two years.
some one needs to read the WHOLE thread.

i wonder who?

[jaxmkii]

OMG!!!! :spit:

EDIT: Why people are taking this seriously?...... its must be my proanilitical charts.

[EvilTaru]

Stop making retarded threads like this, it's like "look I beat myself up first before you even get a chance!!!111!!!"

[jaxmkii]

Stop making retarded threads like this, it's like "look I beat myself up first before you even get a chance!!!111!!!"

its called a satire...

now chill out before i BBQ your kitten. :yum:

wow did you even read the first post?... *napolian dynomite* GOD! *sigh*

[Viper]

I am not an analyst (surprise) but someone suggested that the current operating loss for the gaming devision is 1.2 billion dollars.
I read in other news by canceling their semiconductor fabrication saves them around 2 billion dollars.

They will lose $1.7-$1.9 billion for the previous fiscal year (ended March 31st) in the games division. This has been announced as a prediction from Sony themselves as well as other analysts for months now. Sony usually would have released their annual data last week alongside Nintendo (as they share the same fiscal year calendar) but have delayed the reporting for a month.

The $2 billion in savings from the semiconductor fab facility is something I'm not as familiar with though I'd imagine that a savings over a period of years and not just a single fiscal year. Can you link me to it?

Keep in mind those are separate divisions within Sony so one can have tremendous operating profit while another can have tremendous operating losses and they'd break even.

[mario25]

hahahaa............:laugh:

It's a good satire about what people seemed to think would happen remember?

everyone was sure that by now sony would be crumbling down thanks to the ps3....but stocks are going up and the company is very strong.....a lot of dreams were crushed

[Z]

LOL

you gotta be kidding me...O_o'

[woundingchaney]

@Viper

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUST27285720070407

I believe this is what Z is referring to about their pact with NEC in production and in the future licensing out, which initially will most likely save them a considerable amount of money but the long run is far from determined. In the end it may be a question of current rescources given the onset of the PS3 or that there is little or even negative incentive by keeping this production in house.

-Sony isnt the only recent company to move to fab outsourcing.

[jaxmkii]

hahahaa............

It's a good satire about what people seemed to think would happen remember?

everyone was sure that by now sony would be crumbling down thanks to the ps3....but stocks are going up and the company is very strong.....a lot of dreams were crushed

^ and the PS3 is not doing nearly as bad as many make it out to be doing. although it could be better.

[jaxmkii]

I know this might be over some heads in here but this thread was suposed to be a joke.

my god i have created a monster...

[Viper]

^ and the PS3 is not doing nearly as bad as many make it out to be doing. although it could be better.
Actually it is. You can't twist it to make it look good right now. It's selling far worse than any Sony console has ever sold. many of those that claimed prior to launch that the $600.00 price wasn't too high are now using it as the reason for low sales.


As for the charts, that's funny stuff right there. For those assuming Sony as a whole is doing badly or at least badly due to the PS3, this is a broad stroked slap from ear to ear.

[EvilTaru]

its called a satire...

now chill out before i BBQ your kitten. :yum:

wow did you even read the first post?... *napolian dynomite* GOD! *sigh*

Yes I read the OP and it's a dumb joke thread.

[jaxmkii]

Actually it is. You can't twist it to make it look good right now. It's selling far worse than any Sony console has ever sold. many of those that claimed prior to launch that the $600.00 price wasn't too high are now using it as the reason for low sales.


As for the charts, that's funny stuff right there. For those assuming Sony as a whole is doing badly or at least badly due to the PS3, this is a broad stroked slap from ear to ear.




is it realy that bad? i stoped watching sales threads.

[SleazyBig slim]

This thread needs to be locked because it has a mixture of serious post in here even though it was intended as a joke thread, and is very confusing, add to that the people in hear making serious post have know idea what their talking about.

[jaxmkii]

Yes I read the OP and it's a dumb joke thread.

than go be stuck up someware else.

[Viper]

is it realy that bad? i stoped watching sales threads.

It's expected to barely crack 100k for April NPD and it barely hit above 10k in japan last week. Those are both well below the lowest sales levels of any main Playstation product while during the normal life cycle of the system.

Better marketing, more games and a lower price and the whole problem is solved but those will take some time.

[woundingchaney]

Found a thread at B3D referring to the Reuters article - featuring the infamous XBD/Carl

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=40306&page=2&highlight=Sony+production+fabs


Also a good read on the potential turmoil and profits associated with in-house/outsourcing production

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198701495

[EvilTaru]

than go be stuck up someware else.

I will.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v500/EvilTaru/Indifferent2.gif

[jaxmkii]

It's expected to barely crack 100k for April NPD and it barely hit above 10k in japan last week. Those are both well below the lowest sales levels of any main Playstation product while during the normal life cycle of the system.

Better marketing, more games and a lower price and the whole problem is solved but those will take some time.
it will realy be sad if the PS3 eventualy fails because it will set the president that if you try and build a enthusist system with the best tech possible at the time it will always lose out to simpler cheaper toys. for me at least this could be the begining of the end for gaming. if PS3 fails

[Z]

The $2 billion in savings from the semiconductor fab facility is something I'm not as familiar with though I'd imagine that a savings over a period of years and not just a single fiscal year. Can you link me to it?

I think these are it:
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/feb2007/gb20070227_116817.htm?chan=technology_technology+i ndex+page_more+of+today's+top+stories
http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,21224572%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E15306,00.html
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/asiatech/archives/2007/02/sony_cuts_back.html
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2007-02-13-sony-chips_x.htm

they maybe outsourcing their chip making since it would be much cheaper than to produce them in-house.


Keep in mind those are separate divisions within Sony so one can have tremendous operating profit while another can have tremendous operating losses and they'd break even.
true, although gaming and other electronic stuff they make do fall under their SCE devision. Playstation has been the most profitable section for SCE in recent years. of course an operating loss is expected when developing and launching a new system with its tools, advertisement, etc.

talking of which, I want to see how fast can PS3 start making a profit for them since every PS system has started to make a profit only a year after launching.

[Viper]

it will realy be sad if the PS3 eventualy fails because it will set the president that if you try and build a enthusist system with the best tech possible at the time it will always lose out to simpler cheaper toys. for me at least this could be the begining of the end for gaming. if PS3 fails
I doubt that will become the case. X360 by comparison is still a very high end system but it's not as wrapped up in billions of development dollars like PS3 is. A top end system can still be made and remain profitable but as with anything you can't go all out without risks. Had they held back just a touch, they could possibly have saved themselves a lot. There are thousands of factors to consider but as history has shown us the systems with the extreme cost and tech that goes way beyond the basic jump from one gen to the next (3DO, Neo Geo, Philips CD-i, etc...) you can't blow that kind of money, set that high of a price, put developers in a tough position and not expect to have a rough road to travel. It's a balance that must be met. Technology, cost, developer friendliness. Nintenod showed us that hoping on brand alone is not the answer.


I think these are it:
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/feb2007/gb20070227_116817.htm?chan=technology_technology+i ndex+page_more+of+today's+top+stories
http://australianit.news.com.au/articles/0,7204,21224572%5E15306%5E%5Enbv%5E15306,00.html
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/asiatech/archives/2007/02/sony_cuts_back.html
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/gaming/2007-02-13-sony-chips_x.htm

they maybe outsourcing their chip making since it would be much cheaper than to produce them in-house.


true, although gaming and other electronic stuff they make do fall under their SCE devision. Playstation has been the most profitable section for SCE in recent years. of course an operating loss is expected when developing and launching a new system with its tools, advertisement, etc.

talking of which, I want to see how fast can PS3 start making a profit for them since every PS system has started to make a profit only a year after launching.
Thanks.

OK, the $2 billion is not in savings. It's reduced investment into chip production. Keep in mind that a chip reduction also means a reduction of profit from said chips. Say they invested $4 billion previously but made $5 billion. That's $1 billion in profit. If they reduce the chip production in half, profit too would go down approximately the same to $2.5 billion. Still profitable but with less revenue made and less investment required.

It also stated that $3.8 billion was over a 3 year period which amounts to $1.25 billion invested per year if they were averaged out. Since the decrease in investment will also result in a decrease in revenue, it not exactly a savings measure of $2 billion but perhaps just a few hundred million over the next several years.

[jaxmkii]

I doubt that will become the case. X360 by comparison is still a very high end system but it's not as wrapped up in billions of development dollars like PS3 is. A top end system can still be made and remain profitable but as with anything you can't go all out without risks. Had they held back just a touch, they could possibly have saved themselves a lot. There are thousands of factors to consider but as history has shown us the systems with the extreme cost and tech that goes way beyond the basic jump from one gen to the next (3DO, Neo Geo, Philips CD-i, etc...) you can't blow that kind of money, set that high of a price, put developers in a tough position and not expect to have a rough road to travel. It's a balance that must be met. Technology, cost, developer friendliness. Nintenod showed us that hoping on brand alone is not the answer.

I realy hope PS3 succeds not just cause im a PS fan but because i want to see a a major arms race down the road. if PS3 bombs out. MS and nitty or anyone for that matter might get spooked into not trying to build any Highpowered high cost systems.

i want to see the same arms race in consoles that PCs have with vid cards.

not sales races but true honest to god arms races.

i know im in the minority but i would of like to have seen the PS3 sell for $995.00 with two RXSes in SLi, quad cell and 1024MB/1024MB

cause frankly 600usd is cheap to a PC gamer i spent that on a 9800pro back in 2003.

[pari]

Found a thread at B3D referring to the Reuters article - featuring the infamous XBD/Carl

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=40306&page=2&highlight=Sony+production+fabs


Also a good read on the potential turmoil and profits associated with in-house/outsourcing production

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=198701495

Did XBD jump ship from? I have not seen his posting here lately.

I would definitely agree with XBD's posting in B3D about the fab alliance. A birdie says [............................................] and the birdie is high up in the ladder that I cannot post it and if I did I would be in trouble.

Its going to be Intel vs rest of the world in regards to fab, after Intel only IBM can do the process development and other companies do not have the R&D expertise or the money to develop process right now. IBM made a smart move with fab alliance, the process development cost spread among multiple companies. All the companies contribute some process engineers to develop the process and in turn slightly tweak the process to their liking. The IBM 45nm process would be tweaked by IBM, AMD and the rest for their liking.

[Z]

OK, the $2 billion is not in savings. It's reduced investment into chip production. Keep in mind that a chip reduction also means a reduction of profit from said chips. Say they invested $4 billion previously but made $5 billion. That's $1 billion in profit. If they reduce the chip production in half, profit too would go down approximately the same to $2.5 billion. Still profitable but with less revenue made and less investment required.

It also stated that $3.8 billion was over a 3 year period which amounts to $1.25 billion invested per year if they were averaged out. Since the decrease in investment will also result in a decrease in revenue, it not exactly a savings measure of $2 billion but perhaps just a few hundred million over the next several years.
thanks for the explanation Viper. :)

I realy hope PS3 succeds not just cause im a PS fan but because i want to see a a major arms race down the road. if PS3 bombs out. MS and nitty or anyone for that matter might get spooked into not trying to build any Highpowered high cost systems.

I'm with you in that one. I said it since Rev specs were first unofficially 'released'. I want more than just gaming with my system. there is a techie in me. I appreciate technology and love it. I want to do more with my system. more and more I feel and get into the 'convergence' concept and the entertainment package direction. I want to see amazing developments and new designs. I want new possibilities and venture in new grounds. I want to keep saying 'wow'.

[pari]

I doubt that will become the case. X360 by comparison is still a very high end system but it's not as wrapped up in billions of development dollars like PS3 is. A top end system can still be made and remain profitable but as with anything you can't go all out without risks. Had they held back just a touch, they could possibly have saved themselves a lot. There are thousands of factors to consider but as history has shown us the systems with the extreme cost and tech that goes way beyond the basic jump from one gen to the next (3DO, Neo Geo, Philips CD-i, etc...) you can't blow that kind of money, set that high of a price, put developers in a tough position and not expect to have a rough road to travel. It's a balance that must be met. Technology, cost, developer friendliness. Nintenod showed us that hoping on brand alone is not the answer.



But what about xbox division that has spend more than $5 billion dollars and has not made that money back. MS says its a strategic decision and so has invested more than $5billion dollar. So saying 360 did not cost money would not be the right thing. For Sony PS3 is strategic decision too.

Even if PS3 flops, overall Sony gains because of the network effect or halo effect or whatever its called as. Blu-ray diode being made in volume and in the process of make it in volume the process gets debugged which essential is a big boon for Sony. Sony could have put Blu-ray straight in the player instead of PS3 and charged a lot for the player to cover the cost. In an essence doing over the initial DVD player market. The difference this time, after Nichia, its only Sony the dominant supplier of Blue laser diode and developing a process of volume takes time and time means money. When the Blue laser diode market is not big right now and not lot of suppliers can come in to support them. So PS3 has helped Sony in fine tuning the process for Blue laser diode. Now Sony can be supplier for the Blue laser diode market. Sony wins.

Second, PS3 initiated the market for 1080p TV's which would help Sony in two ways, direct market for its TV which it has to compete with other CE companies and also a market for the its pro-video camera market. Sony dominates the pro-video camera (TV camera), with 1080p comes the market for its TV camera. So even if PS3 flops but 1080p market reaches the infliction point, selling HDTV, camera and projectors Sony wins.

Third, even if PS3 sells only a million or couple from this time onwards and Sony fabs the 65nm CELL in their Nagasaki fab, the million part volume to fine tune their 65nm process is invaluable to Sony. Because Sony's other chips can ride on the fine tuned process and especially crucial in the price sensitive market. In price sensitive market the company does not have the luxury to fine tune the process for volume as its expensive. Sony wins.

What is 360 for MS, PS3 is for Sony that is the bottom line. MS wants to use 360 for software infrastructure, Sony for physical infrastructure.

So I do not see its necessarily a doom for Sony, but might be for Playstation.
Then again future PS3 depends on how Sony executes right now and with ideas like "eye of judgement", LBP,... I do not see Sony faulting. The price reduction would definitely come. If Sony can see Blue laser diode for $7 a piece that means they would make it for $3.50 or less and this is a significant cost reduction for PS3. I am expecting a price reduction in November, let the November rain come...

[woundingchaney]

@Pari


Yeah he is CarlB at B3D, he is elusive period be it here or there my guess is he is undergoing some kind of electronic internet based takeover of the Southern Hemisphere.


The question for me is really where does Sony fit into supply here and what timeline did they determine for mass production of the Cell in both the PS3 and other consumer goods, or even if integration of the cell is moving towards other consumer goods. With in-house fabbing they most likely had a straight line eliminating supply restraints (or at least should be better off than outsourcing), if we do start to see the complete integration of cell into other products they are then shuffling for position along with several other companies in terms of fab needs. While it seems they have accomplished the first fabbing shift (or at least the research is worked out the actual production may not be), the move to 45 and 32 shouldnt be that far sighted.

Then again them breaking an alliance is different to them announcing they are outsourcing fab production.


--At what point is the Cell production resembled or not resembled in other chips. As is known Sony not only mingles in the Cell processor. If Im reading you right then their Cell production should increase as a net positive for all other fab based production and if true how would on compare this. Is chip production largely the same for all chips except with a different template??

[GodMachine_Iridius_Dio]

Continuing page one....

ONOZ!!!

THEY ARE TEH DOOOOOOMED!!!

CRUSHED BY ALL TEH MONEEZ!!! THE HORROR!

======

God I love Coffee!

Later

Dio

[Fazares]

i m glad the forum became such an hilarious place..

[jaxmkii]

i m glad the forum became such an hilarious place..

someone has to do it.:lick:

[pari]

@Pari

The question for me is really where does Sony fit into supply here and what timeline did they determine for mass production of the Cell in both the PS3 and other consumer goods, or even if integration of the cell is moving towards other consumer goods. With in-house fabbing they most likely had a straight line eliminating supply restraints (or at least should be better off than outsourcing), if we do start to see the complete integration of cell into other products they are then shuffling for position along with several other companies in terms of fab needs. While it seems they have accomplished the first fabbing shift (or at least the research is worked out the actual production may not be), the move to 45 and 32 shouldnt be that far sighted.

Then again them breaking an alliance is different to them announcing they are outsourcing fab production.


--At what point is the Cell production resembled or not resembled in other chips. As is known Sony not only mingles in the Cell processor. If Im reading you right then their Cell production should increase as a net positive for all other fab based production and if true how would on compare this. Is chip production largely the same for all chips except with a different template??

The fab process is like cooking recipe, the manual for the process comes with do and donts, can and cannot... ie it tells what is the minimum and maximum width is allowed for the transistor, channel length,... all these numbers are proprietary and confidential to the company and their process. So when AMD gets the process, they might slightly tweak the process ie make relaxation to certain rules to get a faster or smaller processor. Sony might choose to do it slightly different. But if SONY and AMD are fabbing the chips at the same fab then debugging the process for volume would help each other. Its like cooking, having a recipe for BBQ, AMD wants it spicier, SONY wants it tangier but the underlining method for grilling is the same (analogy is not perfect but the closest I can think off) the sauce varies slightly.

Now IBM is fabbing the CELL, to increase the yield they would continuous tweaking the fab line and once they reach certain yield target, not much tweaking takes place. The tweaking can be changing the channel length of the transistor or slightly adjusting the dopant concentration used for doping, the amount of timing for doping... angle of the implant,... The yield is nothing but number of good parts (ie chips running at targeted frequency at the given voltage for the reasonable power) for the wafer lot. So all the above mentioned steps are varied to get the right transistor. So CELL would be process driver for volume with all the tweaking to get the CELL right, other parts get the instant advantage of the process at IBM fab to meet the yield target. Intel does this across all their fabs, saying goes in our industry that all the Intel fabs are identical to the last nut and bolt. So once Intel figures out the tweaks necessary to reach the yield target it rolls out the tweaks (methods/steps) to all other fabs, viola instant advantage. Since other companies do not have the luxury of Intel, they have a process driver chip/part to be the guinea pig for the process. If CELL is the first part in 65nm, then its certainly is the guinea pig...

Every chip is different, CELL would not resemble any other chip. As the floorplan of each chip is different, BEOL (which is the active part or ie transistor part) is completely different for each chip and FEOL (which is interconnects or the wire) are also different. What is done in the fab with multiple chips/part is, BEOL for all the chips are done one by one first, and then FEOL is done on the each chip/part wafer lot.

The news about breaking alliance IMHO is, they are choosing to go with IBM fab alliance and not develop another process. The process development is getting expensive now..
Sony is still a member of IBM fab alliance for 45nm and further.

[WolfWooD]

Wow im just gonna say this.

s0ny is d00000med!!!!