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cliffbo
08-01-2006, 10:04 PM
http://www.aeropause.com/archives/2006/07/console_interfa.php




With videos of the PS3 user interface starting to percolate through the internet, we now have a better idea just how the PS3 is going to look and feel on the screen, and I think it's a perfect time to evaluate the PS3 and look at what goes into a good interface.

As far as I'm concerned, I only need an interface to be Functional, Intuitive, and above all, Simple.

First, before I discuss the PS3 interface in depth, I'd like to explain what I mean when using these terms. Functional means it needs to actually control all of the useful things that the user expects it to control. What good is an interface if it doesn't actually control what I need it to control?

And those controls need to be arranged in a way that makes sense. It needs to be Intuitive. With a well designed interface, a specific feature should appear exactly where the user expects it to appear. Music should appear under the Media category along with Videos. Demos should appear under the games category. If the user has to constantly hunt and peck through the interface to find a desired feature, it's possible the interface is poorly designed. (That, or the user is stupid. For this discussion, let's assume users of moderate intelligence.)

The hardest value to quanitfy is Simplicity. This is more of a subjective judgment. Does the interface look clean and is it generally pleasing to the eyes? Or, on the other hand, does it look and feel more like a cereal box?

If you haven't watched the PS3 interface video, please do so now. I won't go anywhere while you watch:

Okay, the first thing any astute video gamer will notice is that this all looks familiar. Yeah, it's pretty much the PSP interface. So? The PSP interface is pretty good, all things considered, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

From the video, the interface appears to be functional. I see settings, various media menus, and it all seems to flow rather nicely. It's obvious what pushing right on the controls will do. (Sounds like a simple thing, but the Xbox 360 interface sends you flying through various "blades" when all you wanted to do was select the little highlightable window on the right side of the screen.) I'm not sure you could get more intuitive than the PS3 interface, either. Oh look, ALL of the settings are under the Settings option, how novel.

The best thing about this interface is that it's SIMPLE. Not a lot of distracting ads, colors, or banners. Just the controls you need, where you need them. Very much like an iPod interface. Why do some consoles feel the need to overthink the interface? Why add a bunch of "pages" or "blades" when a simple horizontal menu will achieve the same results, but in a more predictable manner?

Don't even get me started on how horrible the 360 interface has been. It sure looks bright, but it was a crap shoot on whether the option you were looking for was in the Settings blade, or buried somewhere in the "Xbox Guide". The latest dashboard has improved the organization of the 360 interface greatly, but has done little to make it simpler and more streamlined. Microsoft has a lot of work to do, there.

It looks like someone over at Sony has a clue about how interfaces should work. (Has Microsoft ever had a clue? Microsoft Bob, anyone?) And I don't think it's necessarily a matter of Japanese culture vs. American culture.

Look at Apple. Go to Apple's website and try to find quicktime movie trailers. That was pretty easy, wasn't it? Click Quicktime. Click trailers. Done.

Now, try to find WMV movie trailers from Microsoft's website. Yes, I assure you Microsoft does provide a website where WMV movie clips are available. Let's see if we can find it. Hmm, nothing relating directly to WMV on the main website, here. Let's try clicking on Windows. Well, now there's a headlined link to Media Player 11 Beta, but that's not really what we want, either. I'll click Windows Media Player on the left sidebar. Okay, now we're getting somewhere. It says Windows Media up at the top, so we must be getting close, now.

At this point, I have two choices. I can try the link for "Music & Video" or the link for "Downloads". Either one could conceivably have downloadable or playable video links. Since the word Video is in the link, I'll try Music & Video. Now, at this stage, many of you are going to make the same mistake that I did. You're going to want to click Watch Video Clips in HD. Unfortunately, that's going to lead you down a dark path of sorrow as you find nothing but boring Windows Media Player commercials and instructional videos. Bleh. No, no, you wanted to click the link in the left sidebar for WindowsMedia.com. Why would you think to do that? Well, you wouldn't necessarily, unless you knew ahead of time (like I do, now) that this is the site Microsoft uses to show WMV clips for various movies, etc.

What a pain. And this kind of interface experience is pretty much what you can expect from Microsoft. Install Windows Media Player 10, and then try to find the "File" menu on the default skin. Yeah, I'm gonna go watch a movie. Let me know when you find that menu in the next day or so. This is just so typical of Microsoft, unfortunately. The Xbox 360 is a great console. Made so by its games and features. Unfortunately, I feel like I'm getting tortured by the Spanish Inquisition, because every time I find where a feature was located, no one expects it to be there.

This is what makes the PS3 interface so great. Simple. Straightforward. Features appear where you expect them. Spanish-Inquisition-proof.

Microsoft, you have much to learn. You are still not a black belt.

woundingchaney
08-01-2006, 10:30 PM
The PS3 interface is great with the PSP simple, usable exactly whats needed for an on the go device, however for a home console I prefer the 360s.

The 360s interface is vibrant, extremely customizable, easy to use, and very well laid out. I have no problem with the advertisements as they are usually refering to a new feature or available download off of the marketplace and they definetely have their place in the structure.

Although it is an opinion and to each their own, but I sincerely hope that the PS3 offers the customization that the 360 does. Im not sure just how much use the poster has with the 360 interface as I cant see his statements having much relevance.

liver_kick
08-01-2006, 10:56 PM
Yeah, err... jumping the gun here arent we? All we have of the PS3 interface is a short clip of the beta.

cliffbo
08-01-2006, 10:58 PM
Yeah, err... jumping the gun here arent we? All we have of the PS3 interface is a short clip of the beta.

yes... and its based on the PSP interface which is smooth and easy to use

liver_kick
08-01-2006, 11:02 PM
yes... and its based on the PSP interface which is smooth and easy to use

I know that, and Im aware the basic outlines are the same. But there's likely going to be additions/changes in the PS3's final implementation of the XMB and feature wise there's still a lot unknown at this point. Wait till the sucker is out.

satriales
08-01-2006, 11:03 PM
Visually I found the PS3 interface a bit too simple, but then when you see it in action it all makes sense. It's so quick and easy to use and only takes a second to view photos, watch a video, open the internet browser, play music and so on. I needn't worry about the appearance either as I'm sure there will be ways to customize it.

I really like the 360's interface too, but I think I prefer the simplicity of the PS3's OS.

BahnNZ
08-01-2006, 11:13 PM
What's good about the 360 interface is it shows you what's hot right now as soon as you switch on your machine. Just switched on my 360 to catch up on some demos and it's trying to flog a PGR3 Style pack to me.

I like that to be honest.

But the interface is not that important to me to be honest.

cliffbo
08-01-2006, 11:17 PM
What's good about the 360 interface is it shows you what's hot right now as soon as you switch on your machine. Just switched on my 360 to catch up on some demos and it's trying to flog a PGR3 Style pack to me.

I like that to be honest.

But the interface is not that important to me to be honest.

i wouldn't mind betting that the PS3 will have a setting that when it is on standby it will automatically download any relevant add ons you have chosen, including PSP stuff. it may even send a signal to the PSP (which will beep) or the PS3 will beep. perhaps a little character will walk across the screen but instead of saying 'you got mail' it will say 'upgrades available'

woundingchaney
08-01-2006, 11:20 PM
Perhaps we could talk about what we want out of the PS3 interface (or do we need a seperate thread for that)????

BahnNZ
08-01-2006, 11:24 PM
Yup, that would be rather groovy.

Or even just a setting to download every new demo and Live Arcade demo when it's left on. Got my 360 on, downloadig DOA4, Galaga, NNNs, and Saint's Row demos.... Be downloading for a couple of hours, if it had downloaded them during the night I'd be playin' em, not watching them downloading.

Or indeed allow you to pre-order downloads.

woundingchaney
08-01-2006, 11:28 PM
Yup, that would be rather groovy.

Or even just a setting to download every new demo and Live Arcade demo when it's left on. Got my 360 on, downloadig DOA4, Galaga, NNNs, and Saint's Row demos.... Be downloading for a couple of hours, if it had downloaded them during the night I'd be playin' em, not watching them downloading.
That would be a good idea, leave the console on and create a list of demos you want downloaded (although Im thinking this is a feature, that is arriving later this year for the 360).


For the PS3, I definetely want an assortment of customization from it (beyond gamerpics). When I originally thought about how corny the 360 customization was before launch I didnt give it much of a chance, but a few months into it I found that I greatly enjoyed the features.

Domination
08-01-2006, 11:31 PM
360 interface (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inNSbGQuM5g&search=360%20interface) & PS3 interface (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpKwRHxSzoY&search=PS3%20interface)

If I were to choose solely based on appearance, I'd choose the 360. To me, it seems more welcoming.

If I were to choose function/efficient wise, it's hands down PS3. For starters, it's far easier to navigate through, self-explanatory, and it gets you where you need to go without all the menus and less confusion as to where you are.

Since I'm more familiar with the PSP's GUI and this basically being about the same, I can tell you that the background can be customised to your own liking, and that new categories (horizontal) or content (vertical) icons, such as new features (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/images/ps3screen.jpg), can be added through firmware upgrades to increase efficiency.

Since the topic is about being more organized and effiencent, I would have to agree with the author. I choose it over glamor anyday of the week.

Raitei
08-01-2006, 11:31 PM
I really don't see the use in drawing comparisons.
I think this whole 360 v PS3 thing has gotten way out of hand.

Sure, maybe discuss hardware, upcoming tittles. But something as trivial as a user interface seems stupid for a discussion

Im sure that yes many of you may prefer interface a over b. and that you'd rather had an intuitive one than a clunky slow and un-navigatable one, But can you honestly tell me, that the interface the console uses, will dictate your choice of next general consoles? I hope not.

cliffbo
08-01-2006, 11:35 PM
Perhaps we could talk about what we want out of the PS3 interface (or do we need a seperate thread for that)????

can't see why we can't do that here wounding.

woundingchaney
08-01-2006, 11:36 PM
I really don't see the use in drawing comparisons.
I think this whole 360 v PS3 thing has gotten way out of hand.

Sure, maybe discuss hardware, upcoming tittles. But something as trivial as a user interface seems stupid for a discussion

Im sure that yes many of you may prefer interface a over b. and that you'd rather had an intuitive one than a clunky slow and un-navigatable one, But can you honestly tell me, that the interface the console uses, will dictate your choice of next general consoles? I hope not.


Way to slide the jab in there at the end after you stated it doesnt really matter.:Carrot:

Raitei
08-01-2006, 11:39 PM
hey... that was definately NOT in reference to the 360. no im not say THE 360 INTERFACE IS CLUNKY, SLOW AND UN-NAVIGATABLE

cliffbo
08-01-2006, 11:39 PM
i don't think it was a jab. it depends on which one you think is clunky slow and un-navigatable. ;)

woundingchaney
08-01-2006, 11:45 PM
hey... that was definately NOT in reference to the 360. no im not say THE 360 INTERFACE IS CLUNKY, SLOW AND UN-NAVIGATABLE
It was a joke man.:birthday:

No problem I should have made that more clear.



Oh and MS COPIES MORE THAN SONY.

Bad_Boy
08-01-2006, 11:57 PM
I dont think you can ever be too simple with an interface, get what needs to be done, and get out. And I'm sure Sony will let you customize it in some ways seeing that they felt custom wallpapers were needed sometime after the psp release. I agree with most of the articles statements. But I also agree with some of the forum posters comments. There are features I would like incorperated into the XMB design, like frequent updates of whats new, etc. All in all....

Nice read cliffbo. thanks

Raitei
08-02-2006, 12:08 AM
wounding.. mine was also.. a far for subtly.. or impossible to read joke

yoshaw
08-02-2006, 12:15 AM
I'd have to speak from the point of someone who's already mastered(bragging here, don't pay attention!) the PSP interface. Intuitive doesn't even begin to describe how good the PSP UI is.

In 1 min, yes one minute, I can connect/disconnect with USB, change whatever single or two settings, play/stop mp3, search for save files, search for UMD, see photos etc. It's simply an amazing and very cool GUI I've ever used.

Can't say much about 360 atm, don't own it yet.

Luis
08-02-2006, 12:29 AM
The crossbar interface is one of the coolest, fastest, easiest, most functional, efficient, practical and intuitive I've ever used, if not the best one. I'm really glad PS3's interface will be an upgraded crossbar; it won't be so simple, but it will be loaded with more features and I'm all for it.

Beenie Man
08-02-2006, 12:37 AM
The XMB Cross Media Bar is very slick, effecient, and very simple. Just eases the mind. It is also very well organized and is really good for view multimedia applications.

Hrama
08-02-2006, 01:14 AM
Okay, I have seen both interfaces, but I prefer the PS3's for its simplicity, and efficiency. The 360's interface certainly is pretty in a bright and impressive way, but seems much more difficult to navigate and less self-explanatory to me. As far as looks go, I still prefer the PS3's by far. The 360's is fine for what it is, a game console, but if I were to buy a sexy piece of expensive audio/video equipment, it would be less than desirable. This is where the PS3 shines, its professional, sleek and is almost representative of what the PS3 looks like and has inside of it. It seems that the PS3 interface could be used for almost all of Sony's electronic devices, while the X360 one almost certainly would look goofy elsewhere. Just straight opinion here.

Viper
08-02-2006, 04:21 AM
I'm moving this to General Gaming. Keep it civil, boys.

ded5850
08-02-2006, 06:02 AM
I think it's all a matter of preference really. If you're more for sleek, simple, and gets you where you need to go, then the PS3 is for you. However, if you're more for an expansive inferface, one that's almost fully custimizable and also can get you what you need, the 360 is right on track with your expectations.

For me, I own both a 360 and a PSP, and though I do like both interfaces, I prefer the PSP's simply because I rarely take advantage of the custimizable features. One thing that I like about the 360 that you don't have on the PSP is access to your interface at anytime. While playing NFS:MW, I can hook up my favorite songs to run from the cops to. When I'm running from the cops, Ice T's "Cop Killa" is always nice to have on hand, and you can get it from the 360's harddrive, or stream it from your computer. It's little additives like this I like. One thing I truely miss on the PSP is not being able to listen to my songs whilst playing my game. It's a simple feature, and I hope the PS3 can manage to work this in.

All in all, as I said, it's a matter of personal preference. I think both have whatever any person is looking for. It's just simply a matter of working your way through the system.

But that's just me.

gljvd
08-02-2006, 07:03 AM
I don't really see how they can claim that the ms version ahs alot to learn. In a few blades its able to make everything clear and easy to navigate through.

It also seems based on leaked information the ms blade system and os fits in 32megs while the ps3 interface fits in 96 megs. I believe its the other way around :0) sony has alot to learn


From the video, the interface appears to be functional. I see settings, various media menus, and it all seems to flow rather nicely. It's obvious what pushing right on the controls will do. (Sounds like a simple thing, but the Xbox 360 interface sends you flying through various "blades" when all you wanted to do was select the little highlightable window on the right side of the screen.) I'm not sure you could get more intuitive than the PS3 interface, either. Oh look, ALL of the settings are under the Settings option, how novel.


right because switching between blades takes 12 hours

You have 4 Blades . Xbox live which as all the live information you need . Then you have Games which has your game information , achievements , played games , live arcade , demos and game videos , Then the media tab that has your music , pictures , video and midea center and then system that has your system set up information.

Its just as easy and quick as sonys


The best thing about this interface is that it's SIMPLE. Not a lot of distracting ads, colors, or banners. Just the controls you need, where you need them. Very much like an iPod interface. Why do some consoles feel the need to overthink the interface? Why add a bunch of "pages" or "blades" when a simple horizontal menu will achieve the same results, but in a more predictable manner?


Is he 2 years old that colors distract him ? Each blade has a diffrent color . 3 tabs have and add showing you a new arcade title or video . The main xbox live tab shows you a banner of what event is going on or whats hot aside from that arcade game. Currently you have a madden 07 countdown that leads you to xbox live media on the game .

Don't see how hard that is to follow.


Don't even get me started on how horrible the 360 interface has been. It sure looks bright, but it was a crap shoot on whether the option you were looking for was in the Settings blade, or buried somewhere in the "Xbox Guide". The latest dashboard has improved the organization of the 360 interface greatly, but has done little to make it simpler and more streamlined. Microsoft has a lot of work to do, there.


Lol what was he looking for ? Everything is very simple and strait foward. You need something that involves system settings you go to the system tab , games the game tab and so on . How hard is that ?

Its the same difficulty as using the sony system . Instead of 4 blades you have a bunch of menu options and it looks to take the same time to go from one to the other on both systems .

The only annoying thing so far was that video had only the stuff that came on the 360 hardrive and nothing else , but that has been fixed.


Now, try to find WMV movie trailers from Microsoft's website


Nothing to do with xbox 360 , shows how much of a bias writer and reviewer this person is .

Aside from that ms has something called windows media player that allows you to download wmv files. Why do you want to go to a website when you have a dedicated tool for this ?

Thats like saying you want to use your ps3 to browse sonys site to download media files that are on thier rip off of xbox live market place . Why would u ever do that ?



Damn , I mean the last 2 paragraphs are just busting on ms about things that have nothin to do with the 360 or its blade set up.

Hrama
08-02-2006, 07:32 AM
Well I'll say, that it to me, it can't be much simplier from the videos that I watched of the PS3 interface. Music is under music... Pictures under pictures. Videos in Videos, the Web Browser in.... Web browser etc. Granted that all of the features in the final PS3 were not in these demos at E3 and in the videos they didn't go into the hardcore settings, but if they keep it as intuitive and ridiculously simple there is no way to get lost or have to wonder where anything is in it. The icons for its specific functions are nearly unmistakble as the film strip is videos, music is the music note, the world wide web looking icon is the web browser, the games are listed under the game pad etc. The thumbnails of everything in the photos, videos, music etc. make it damn near fool proof. Now I have seen the Xbox360 interface.... and I got kind of lost right off the bat as to what was going on, it seemed more complex. The "system" blade got me confused immediately with all of the options. Granted, they did go more "in depth" into the settings it seems so that may be part of it. Now, I don't have a 360, nor have I ever actually used the interface myself, but just on first impressions, I would have to say that the PS3 interface is the simplier and more user friendly of the two.

EDIT:
Kind of funny how you bash him for having a bias, (the false analogy tactic he was using) while you go with pure ad hominem in parts yourself. And about you making an analogy to his analogy... you use the same tactic, false analogy. :XD:


Aside from that ms has something called windows media player that allows you to download wmv files. Why do you want to go to a website when you have a dedicated tool for this ?

Thats like saying you want to use your ps3 to browse sonys site to download media files that are on thier rip off of xbox live market place . Why would u ever do that ?

That IS begging the question now isn't it? =P

Not trying to bash, just found it kind of funny...

ded5850
08-02-2006, 07:32 AM
Yeah, I'll admit that the writer of the article seemed to have an agenda preset against MS.

But it still stands to be true that it's all based on preferance.

gljvd
08-02-2006, 08:21 AM
Yeah, I'll admit that the writer of the article seemed to have an agenda preset against MS.

But it still stands to be true that it's all based on preferance.


Perhaps but then again , my preferance is just as valid , you don't see me on a soap box on some site pissing on sony becuase I don't like the way thier website is set up and so I take it out on another product


Now I have seen the Xbox360 interface.... and I got kind of lost right off the bat as to what was going on, it seemed more complex. The "system" blade got me confused immediately with all of the options


Lol , So this

Music is under music... Pictures under pictures. Videos in Videos, the Web Browser in.... Web browser etc
your words , is easier than this

Media in the media tab (Pictures , videos , music) Games are in the game tab (Games , Demos , Game videos) and Live features are in the live tab ?

I don't see how one is easier than the other, they are as simple as can be .

D3adcell
08-02-2006, 09:03 AM
That article seemed really biased towards sony. How the hell can he say the 360 dashboard is confusing or hard to navigate? That is one of the stupidest things i have ever heard.

Hrama
08-02-2006, 09:04 AM
Yes, I found that it is. All of the media options having their own icons and grouped accordingly seems more efficient to me. With one or two confirmations, the music was playing in a matter of seconds. If I go back to watch the 360 interface posted on the last page, there is a whole slew of inner menus that must be navigated first to get to playing the music. Using the example in the video that was posted: Media Tab-> Music->Hard Drive/Computer-> Album/artists/saved playlists/songs/genres ->(Once an album was selected) Play album/Add to current playlist/Edit album info/Delete album->(Once a song was chosen) Music begins playing. That seemed needlessly complex and the person demonstrating only went through one of each of those multiple options in their respective multiple sub-menus. In the PS3 interface, the music icon was scrolled to and then the album (Which included thumbnails to make selection easier) and then confirmation. The music started playing. The same with Video: Video-> click on a thumbnail (Once again, thumbnails to decrease ambiguity)-> video playing. Again, seemed less complex than trying to play music on the 360. Now, maybe the person demonstrating the 360 went through many options that didn't need to be gone through, but just by navigating the menus, (to make it comparative to the PS3 ie: not using controller shortcuts to cut down the time it took to navigate the menus.) it seemed far more complex. I can't say though, someone with a 360 would have to confirm that. As I said, it was a cursory look and one based purely on speculation and incomplete knowledge of the 360 interface so if there is something different please enlighten me.

gljvd
08-02-2006, 09:15 AM
That article seemed really biased towards sony. How the hell can he say the 360 dashboard is confusing or hard to navigate? That is one of the stupidest things i have ever heard.


Dude you guys have to many colors on this site , it confuses me , can you please use only black and white with no images or adds .

Me am confused :swear:

gljvd
08-02-2006, 09:23 AM
the 360 is easy to use , IF you want your music you can go to he media tab click music and select the device you want to paly it from , then it shows you whats there and breaks it down just like the most popular music device on the market , the ipod , you can choose to search from albums , artists , saved playlists , songs and genres.


Don't see whats so hard . The ps3 is broken up the same way , its the way it makes sense .

Hrama
08-02-2006, 09:39 AM
the 360 is easy to use , IF you want your music you can go to he media tab click music and select the device you want to paly it from , then it shows you whats there and breaks it down just like the most popular music device on the market , the ipod , you can choose to search from albums , artists , saved playlists , songs and genres.


Don't see whats so hard . The ps3 is broken up the same way , its the way it makes sense .

First off, that is a false analogy (again) And no, go back and look at the PS3 interface.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpKwRHxSzoY&search=PS3%20interface

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfpjOlfTdCg&search=PS3%20interface
(This one seems to contain one less step)

Just to quote myself on the 360:


Media Tab-> Music->Hard Drive/Computer-> Album/artists/saved playlists/songs/genres ->(Once an album was selected) Play album/Add to current playlist/Edit album info/Delete album->(Once a song was chosen) Music begins playing

I saw that in neither of the videos I posted above that the user had to go through all of that with the PS3 interface. With the second video... two confirmations. (It may have only been one, but from the way the interface worked, seemed as it it were two) That is all that it took. Note, that both of these methods were derived by going through the menu and the menu only. The same with the 360 video for fair comparison. Not to say that the PS3 did not have these options, just that it appeared that they were secondary options after going through the primary menu to play the music and not forcing the user to pick between them initially. A decent analogy may be the relationship of Windows to Windows Media Player. You find a song, and double click it, there are no options that must be navigated prior to the music playing. If you right click on the song or go into the actual player's menu itself, more advanced options are available. I don't see how what you are saying is true in its current stated form. Please expound upon it and cite specific examples to cut down on the hasty generalizations and dubiousness.

gljvd
08-02-2006, 09:52 AM
dude , I was explaining the xbox version .

Watching the video you show me all it is , is xbox blade system but instead of blades icons.

You click music and it brings me to albums . That is great , How do I pick through genres ? How do I play a playlist I made ? How do I pick which device I want to select music from ?


All this is going to require more steps that your going to have to add to your ps3 version .

For example , I have 50 gigs of music. I have lets say , 3 copies of a kiss cd , one is the release , one is the songs live and one is acustic . In the ps3 , I'm going to have to go through all my music all the way to the k's to pick out the kiss music and then I"m going to have to go through about 12 kiss cds to find the one I want.

On the 360 its simple , I pick my computer , go to genres and choose acustic and there I am , I have my 15 or 16 acustic cds that I have .

You try and make it very simple because thats what they were showing you , but there is so much left out of that video its not even funny and what you get is a very basic idiot set up that gives you no power at all. Once your collection goes past a few cds the ps3 interface is going to take forever to go through.

Just look at the video.

Hrama
08-02-2006, 10:19 AM
dude , I was explaining the xbox version .

Watching the video you show me all it is , is xbox blade system but instead of blades icons.

You click music and it brings me to albums . That is great , How do I pick through genres ? How do I play a playlist I made ? How do I pick which device I want to select music from ?


All this is going to require more steps that your going to have to add to your ps3 version .

For example , I have 50 gigs of music. I have lets say , 3 copies of a kiss cd , one is the release , one is the songs live and one is acustic . In the ps3 , I'm going to have to go through all my music all the way to the k's to pick out the kiss music and then I"m going to have to go through about 12 kiss cds to find the one I want.

On the 360 its simple , I pick my computer , go to genres and choose acustic and there I am , I have my 15 or 16 acustic cds that I have .

You try and make it very simple because thats what they were showing you , but there is so much left out of that video its not even funny and what you get is a very basic idiot set up that gives you no power at all. Once your collection goes past a few cds the ps3 interface is going to take forever to go through.

Just look at the video.

Can we get on the same page here? I am not comparing the PS3 interface to the Xbox360 interface in terms of its feature set. I am merely stating that it appeared more complex to get music to play on the 360 than it did on the PS3. That is all. You cannot make this analogy as it is comparing two different things. I am not stating that the Xbox360 interface is somehow in the wrong, just that it takes you through a myriad of what some may consider (complex) menus just to get to playing music. There were no thumbnails produced for ease of navigation either. That is all that I am stating. And you cannot even infer at this point, or state as fact that the PS3 interface is going to take forever to navigate through once a music collection goes past a few CD's


but there is so much left out of that video its not even funny and what you get is a very basic idiot set up that gives you no power at all

You cannot say what is left out of that video, as you have no more information about the PS3's interface than I, or the ones demonstrating it do. Unless you already have a fully functioning Playstion 3 unit, or confirmation from Sony Computer Entertainment, than you have no evidence, therefore your argument is nothing but pure fallacious, deductive reasoning. Provide some evidence, then come back to argue that point.

Example of specious syllogism, using some of your words:

Major Premise: All decent music players must have features that would not classify it as "a very basic idiot set up that gives you no power at all"

Minor Premise: The PS3 has these features.

Conclusion: Therefore it is not "A very basic idiot set up that gives you no power at all"


Now while that is sound deduction it is missing one very important part: evidence. Seeing as how there is no evidence either way as to whether the PS3 will have these options and where they will be incorporated into the interface, it becomes fallacious reasoning.


Once your collection goes past a few cds the ps3 interface is going to take forever to go through.

I have stated nothing here but facts, which I can back up with evidence, as I have above. I have not speculated on the future, or what "may or may not happen" If you want to prophetize what the future PS3 interface may include, fine, but that point cannot be argued using solid, tangible evidence, only inference, so please don't present it as such, but what truly is: a claim of policy.

gljvd
08-02-2006, 10:45 AM
Can we get on the same page here? I am not comparing the PS3 interface to the Xbox360 interface in terms of its feature set. I am merely stating that it appeared more complex to get music to play on the 360 than it did on the PS3. That is all. You cannot make this analogy as it is comparing two different things. I am not stating that the Xbox360 interface is somehow in the wrong, just that it takes you through a myriad of what some may consider (complex) menus just to get to playing music. There were no thumbnails produced for ease of navigation either. That is all that I am stating. And you cannot even infer at this point, or state as fact that the PS3 interface is going to take forever to navigate through once a music collection goes past a few CD's


Yet simplicty for simplicity sake makes things harder and more complex in the long run.

The video you showed only shows us a a way to play music having to go through artists then through the albums and then the songs .

As I've asked , How do I pick what device I want to search through? How do I see teh music on my pc ? How do I get to my play lists ? How do I pick which genre of music I want to browse through ?

None of these features are there and thus in the long run its more complicated for the person to get thse features or will take longer to find what your looking for .


You cannot say what is left out of that video, as you have no more information about the PS3's interface than I, or the ones demonstrating it do. Unless you already have a fully functioning Playstion 3 unit, or confirmation from Sony Computer Entertainment, than you have no evidence, therefore your argument is nothing but pure fallacious, deductive reasoning. Provide some evidence, then come back to argue that point.



Lol but its okay to lcaim its simplier to play music on ? That is funny as hell dude . Like I asked where are the other options ? Will they be included ? If they are where will they be and how are they going to make it so it doesn't confuse you ? It doesn't get much more powerfull and simple than the xbox 360 and itunes menu lay outs .

So will they have it before you see the atrists and albums ? Will they have it after? Will you have to press buttons and bring up new menus to do these things ?

Really tell me ,


Now while that is sound deduction it is missing one very important part: evidence. Seeing as how there is no evidence either way as to whether the PS3 will have these options and where they will be incorporated into the interface, it becomes fallacious reasoning.




That is your problem as the introduction of these things that you feel are there but not shown will add more layers to what the video is showing one way or another .


I have stated nothing here but facts, which I can back up with evidence, as I have above. I have not speculated on the future, or what "may or may not happen" If you want to prophetize what the future PS3 interface may include, fine, but that point cannot be argued using solid, tangible evidence, only inference, so please don't present it as such, but what truly is: a claim of policy.


No what you have stated is personal prefrence based on an incomplete build that is lacking many features of its competition that iff added will increase the steps it would take to browse your music .

Hrama
08-02-2006, 11:03 AM
Yet simplicty for simplicity sake makes things harder and more complex in the long run.

The video you showed only shows us a a way to play music having to go through artists then through the albums and then the songs .

As I've asked , How do I pick what device I want to search through? How do I see teh music on my pc ? How do I get to my play lists ? How do I pick which genre of music I want to browse through ?



I cannot answer that, hence why I have not tried to. I figured that it was rhetorical, seeing how, at this point, it cannot be answered, using the evidence above. (Notice I bold that part, as I have not commented on anything that either of those videos have not shown me. I can only argue what those videos show as those are the only evidence you are I have presented each other.)


None of these features are there and thus in the long run its more complicated for the person to get thse features or will take longer to find what your looking for .


Would you please stop stating that as a claim of fact! That is a claim of value, and therefore cannot really be completely proven. In other words, pure subjective opinion. It might be more believable if you had any proof to back that up, but there is none. Bring proof then state that.


Lol but its okay to lcaim its simplier to play music on ? That is funny as hell dude . Like I asked where are the other options ? Will they be included ? If they are where will they be and how are they going to make it so it doesn't confuse you ? It doesn't get much more powerfull and simple than the xbox 360 and itunes menu lay outs .

Please go back and see where I state "it is". I may have said, it seems, or it appears. I KNOW I have incomplete knowledge of both interfaces, hence why I do not present my OPINION as fact.

I'll quote myself for reference:


Yes, I found that it is. All of the media options having their own icons and grouped accordingly seems more efficient to me. With one or two confirmations, the music was playing in a matter of seconds. If I go back to watch the 360 interface posted on the last page, there is a whole slew of inner menus that must be navigated first to get to playing the music


maybe the person demonstrating the 360 went through many options that didn't need to be gone through, but just by navigating the menus, (to make it comparative to the PS3 ie: not using controller shortcuts to cut down the time it took to navigate the menus.) it seemed far more complex. I can't say though, someone with a 360 would have to confirm that. As I said, it was a cursory look and one based purely on speculation and incomplete knowledge of the 360 interface so if there is something different please enlighten me.


Now, I don't have a 360, nor have I ever actually used the interface myself, but just on first impressions, I would have to say that the PS3 interface is the simplier and more user friendly of the two.

Just to help you out, I will include a dictionary definition of the words "seem" and "appear"

Seem:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Seem


1. To give the impression of being; appear: The child seems healthy, but the doctor is concerned.
2. To appear to one's own opinion or mind: I can't seem to get the story straight.
3. To appear to be true, probable, or evident: It seems you object to the plan. It seems like rain. He seems to have worked in sales for several years.
4. To appear to exist: There seems no reason to postpone it.


Appear:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/appear


1. To become visible: a plane appearing in the sky.
2. To come into existence: New strains of viruses appear periodically.
3. To seem or look to be: appeared unhappy.
4. To seem likely: They will be late, as it appears.
5. To come before the public: has appeared in two plays; appears on the nightly news.
6. Law. To present oneself formally before a court as defendant, plaintiff, or counsel.


My my, anywhere there I stated my opinion as fact?




That is your problem as the introduction of these things that you feel are there but not shown will add more layers to what the video is showing one way or another .

*Sigh* I said

Now while that is sound deduction it is missing one very important part: evidence. Seeing as how there is no evidence either way as to whether the PS3 will have these options and where they will be incorporated into the interface, it becomes fallacious reasoning.




No what you have stated is personal prefrence based on an incomplete build that is lacking many features of its competition that iff added will increase the steps it would take to browse your music .

See, I needed only to quote myself to clear that up. Hopefully that will end the ambiguity of my statements. Semantics is the key my friend, that and a firm knowledge of how argument actually works.

gljvd
08-02-2006, 11:26 AM
I cannot answer that, hence why I have not tried to. I figured that it was rhetorical, seeing how, at this point, it cannot be answered, using the evidence above. (Notice I bold that part, as I have not commented on anything that either of those videos have not shown me. I can only argue what those videos show as those are the only evidence you are I have presented each other.)


Yet your conclusion is flawed with out the above information.

We can go a step further and just have you click one button for music and then just have a list of every song you own . Not very practical is it and while simple , it ends up being a much bigger hassle than adding another layer of menus ala artists or album sorting .


Would you please stop stating that as a claim of fact! That is a claim of value, and therefore cannot really be completely proven. In other words, pure subjective opinion. It might be more believable if you had any proof to back that up, but there is none. Bring proof then state that.


ALl of this is a fact that what your comparing to the 360 interface is missing these features and thus the comparision is null and void .

Your basing your opinion on flawed evidence that has missing features . It doesn't matter if its there in the future (in fact it makes your claims and the articles claims even more baseless)




See, I needed only to quote myself to clear that up. Hopefully that will end the ambiguity of my statements. Semantics is the key my friend, that and a firm knowledge of how argument actually works.

Your own posts show you claiming that (and your prefrence and that is fine) the ps3 interface is easier to use , however its bassed on incomplete data and to make a claim that even in your opinion with out ever using the xbox 360 or the ps3 that one would be easier than the other is the problem.

I've already explained how reducing the steps can increase the time it takes to find what your looking for and thus makes the thing more complex in the long run.

The orignal article and many of the members posts here , yours included are groundless and based on nothing more than Bias. Untill the final build of the ps3 is shown to us and we see how it stacks up feature wise and which one its actually easier to get to the song your looking for , any opinion formed , is formed through the persons bias .

Hrama
08-02-2006, 11:32 AM
Yet your conclusion is flawed with out the above information.

We can go a step further and just have you click one button for music and then just have a list of every song you own . Not very practical is it and while simple , it ends up being a much bigger hassle than adding another layer of menus ala artists or album sorting .



ALl of this is a fact that what your comparing to the 360 interface is missing these features and thus the comparision is null and void .

Your basing your opinion on flawed evidence that has missing features . It doesn't matter if its there in the future (in fact it makes your claims and the articles claims even more baseless)

Yes, and all of the comparisons that happen on these three boards (Xbox360, Playstion 3, and Wii boards respectively) have been between three pieces of hardware, two of which do not exist, and are not finished. The reason why these arguments can still happen is because there is still evidence. We have technology specifications (However unfinished they may be) We have videos and pictures of games on all three consoles. If what you are saying is true, then they could not be compared at all, seeing as how two of those consoles are not finished and there are no finished games for either. Gears of War is not quite finished yet, but I have seen you many times compare it to another unfinished game. That is what we like to call, hypocrisy. I just wanted to point that out, not to bash, but just for thinking purposes.

Back to the argument at hand:

No, the evidence is not flawed:

Once again, I will give you a definition of flaw:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flaw


1. An imperfection, often concealed, that impairs soundness: a flaw in the crystal that caused it to shatter. See Synonyms at blemish.
2. A defect or shortcoming in something intangible: They share the character flaw of arrogance.
3. A defect in a legal document that can render it invalid.

Now how is the evidence flawed? Videos do not lie, unless they have been altered. Vidoes can be used as evidence. Just because something is not finished, also does not mean it cannot be used as evidence. Because the PS3 interface is not finished, I have not spoken about anything that is NOT INCLUDED IN EITHER VIDEOS. (See my above post, all of my posts have a lot of "Seems" and "appears") Therefore I have not tried to conclude upon the intangible as you have suggested I have. Now in the end I may be very wrong about the final state of the interfaces, but using the EVIDENCE presented, no matter how unfinished it may be (Because it is still evidence), my points still stand. You want to argue with me, post your own real, unaltered evidence. I want you to prove me wrong. Use the rules of argument, present a claim (Of fact), provide a warrant, and then support your claim with real evidence. Until then, the argument stands, and as such, on fact.

The only claim I have made, is that in its current form of both interfaces in those videos, the PS3 was able to play music faster than the Xbox360 and by going through less menus. That is all I am going to state or have stated. You can look at both videos and count the seconds it takes in their respective media windows to get to and play the music selected. If you can prove me wrong, using those videos as evidence (or providing your own evidence) that the Xbox360 does not go through that many menus, and can play music just as fast, if not faster than either of those PS3's in those videos, I will concede the point. (Remember, no controller shortcuts, just clicking the menu buttons only to keep it a somewhat fair comparison) Until then, you have done nothing but try to argue semantics.

gljvd
08-02-2006, 11:47 AM
Of course its flawed .

The ps3 is lacking features and your claim of playing music is faster is flawed.

Sure you can get to your A's faster than I can , But how about your ks , your ms and further down ? You don't have the power to do that . You can select one song quickly ,I can select a 20 song play list even faster .

The evidence you have shown doesn't tell the whole story about your comment .


Again, seemed less complex than trying to play music on the 360.



With the second video... two confirmations. (It may have only been one, but from the way the interface worked, seemed as it it were two) That is all that it took


Both of these are incorrect and are not supported by the videos

The first one is flawed because while its easier to just start playing the first song in your library its much harder to find the song you are looking for or to create or use playlists , search by genre or even device.

The second is flawed because your not allways going to want to listen To the song from the start of your library. Thus having to actually find what you want to listen to is much more complex on the ps3 because in the videos your using as proof it has no advance options and whle on the 360 you have to go through the advance options first , on the ps3 you have to go through them at some point (if they are offered) and will still add to the steps required to play music.

the 360 requires 3 button clicks to play music wihle in game. Guide button , Play music and then play and it will paly the first song in your library also , however unlike the ps3 , with 3 button clicks I can also choose a playlist .

Or in the guide , I can go to media tab , click music , click hardrive and there you go i'm playing my music .


You haven't used either and your going from a video of someone showing you what to do and showing you a much more robust feature set than what your comparing it to. Your also mistaking simple with easy .

Hrama
08-02-2006, 11:56 AM
Of course its flawed .

The ps3 is lacking features and your claim of playing music is faster is flawed.

Sure you can get to your A's faster than I can , But how about your ks , your ms and further down ? You don't have the power to do that . You can select one song quickly ,I can select a 20 song play list even faster .

The evidence you have shown doesn't tell the whole story about your comment .





Both of these are incorrect and are not supported by the videos



The first one is flawed because while its easier to just start playing the first song in your library its much harder to find the song you are looking for or to create or use playlists , search by genre or even device.

The second is flawed because your not allways going to want to listen To the song from the start of your library. Thus having to actually find what you want to listen to is much more complex on the ps3 because in the videos your using as proof it has no advance options and whle on the 360 you have to go through the advance options first , on the ps3 you have to go through them at some point (if they are offered) and will still add to the steps required to play music.

I will pause you right there. Here are my comments just for recap:


Again, seemed less complex than trying to play music on the 360.

Sure it does, I said "seemed". Go back up and look at the meaning, ie: not yet discernable if it is fact or not and only my OPINION. See, I didn't state that as an argument based in fact or one at all, only as an opinion. I will give the 2nd definition from a dictionary again just for reference.


To appear to one's own opinion or mind: I can't seem to get the story straight.



With the second video... two confirmations. (It may have only been one, but from the way the interface worked, seemed as it it were two) That is all that it took


Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, that IS all it took. *Looks again* Yep, that was all that it took. And no, it doesn't HAVE to go through those options. My three portable CD players can browse through any music put on them. Essentially, music only requires a play button to well... play. Remember vinyl records? Yep, they didn't have all of those options back in the day... neither did A-trac tapes, cassette tapes, or the first CD players. they don't even have those options, but yet, still manage to find the music that people want. I wonder how that works... Back to what you said:


the 360 requires 3 button clicks to play music wihle in game. Guide button , Play music and then play and it will paly the first song in your library also , however unlike the ps3 , with 3 button clicks I can also choose a playlist .

Or in the guide , I can go to media tab , click music , click hardrive and there you go i'm playing my music .


You haven't used either and your going from a video of someone showing you what to do and showing you a much more robust feature set than what your comparing it to. Your also mistaking simple with easy .

O rly? (Sorry I couldn't resist) we will see. Here is the definition of Simple:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/simple


1. Having or composed of only one thing, element, or part. See Synonyms at pure.
2. Not involved or complicated; easy: a simple task. See Synonyms at easy.
3. Being without additions or modifications; mere: a simple “yes” or “no.”
4. Having little or no ornamentation; not embellished or adorned: a simple dress.
5. Not elaborate, elegant, or luxurious. See Synonyms at plain.
6. Unassuming or unpretentious; not affected.
7.
1. Having or manifesting little sense or intelligence.
2. Uneducated; ignorant.
3. Unworldly or unsophisticated. See Synonyms at naive.
8. Not guileful or deceitful; sincere.
9. Humble or lowly in condition or rank: a simple woodcutter.
10. Ordinary or common: a simple head cold.
11.
1. Being a fundamental or rudimentary element; basic.
2. Not important or significant; trivial.
12. Biology. Having no divisions or branches; not compound: a simple leaf; a simple eye or lens.
13. Music. Being without figuration or elaboration: a simple tone.


Yep, hence why I have not spoken about those things. I stated it was speedier to play music in that one video on the PS3 than it was in that one video of the Xbox360. I never mentioned multiple songs, playlists, albums etc. Just the above statement. You could be very right once those features are put in, (If they are) but that is not something that is provable now, which is why I avoided that part of it.


And furthermore, Anything that you state as fact, you need to back up with evidence. Notice, I have not stated anything as fact, that I could not provide evidence for. (And since those videos don't provide much evidence, I haven't stated much as fact) I have only mentioned speed against speed in THOSE vidoes.


The first one is flawed because while its easier to just start playing the first song in your library its much harder to find the song you are looking for or to create or use playlists , search by genre or even device.


Needs evidence.... See, there is none, because none exists, no videos, no pictures, at least that I could find. And anyway, how do you know that it is easier to do that? when THAT specifically, cannot be done on the PS3? So, let's just steer away from that part of it shall we?


your not allways going to want to listen To the song from the start of your library

Who are you to say how I am going to listen to my music? Oh excuse me, I forgot that other people could state my opinions and how I am going to do such and such even when they don't know them or my habits. =P


The second is flawed because your not allways going to want to listen To the song from the start of your library. Thus having to actually find what you want to listen to is much more complex on the ps3 because in the videos your using as proof it has no advance options and whle on the 360 you have to go through the advance options first , on the ps3 you have to go through them at some point (if they are offered) and will still add to the steps required to play music.

Needs evidence again.... (Which probably doesn't exist, so the point is moot.)



You haven't used either and your going from a video of someone showing you what to do and showing you a much more robust feature set than what your comparing it to. Your also mistaking simple with easy .

Come on man, you are making this too easy! Give me evidence will you! This is debate, not some verbal argument between people on the street. Follow the simple rules and you will easily have an argument worthy of standing up. My videos may be comparing an incomplete interface against a complete one, but at least they are evidence! And the best we have at the moment as neither the Wii nor the Playstation 3 is out, yet argument still goes on everyday in these boards eh? Its because there is still evidence. MGS4's incomplete graphics can be compared to... let's say, Red Steel on the Wii, or Perfect Dark Zero on the Xbox360. I know you, me, all of the others compare two unfinished games against each other, one finished game against an unfinished one, two unfinished consoles against a finished one etc. See? The comparison can be made therefore the argument is still based on fact and stands.


Sure you can get to your A's faster than I can , But how about your ks , your ms and further down ? You don't have the power to do that . You can select one song quickly ,I can select a 20 song play list even faster .

There, I proved my point. And anyway, I can't argue what you are saying any further, because the interface is incomplete. I told you that awhile ago. =P


I have stated nothing here but facts, which I can back up with evidence, as I have above. I have not speculated on the future, or what "may or may not happen" If you want to prophetize what the future PS3 interface may include, fine, but that point cannot be argued using solid, tangible evidence, only inference, so please don't present it as such

Yep, a long time ago. =P



Now while that is sound deduction it is missing one very important part: evidence. Seeing as how there is no evidence either way as to whether the PS3 will have these options and where they will be incorporated into the interface, it becomes fallacious reasoning.

I told you I was not going to speculate on the future, only what those videos show. See, its all semantics, so you agree with my one and only point.

(Now of course, we all know things will change once those features are implimented in the PS3, if they ever are, but that is a whole seperate debate. As things stand... yep, that's about it.)

Viper
08-02-2006, 05:22 PM
Guys....could we?

Domination
08-02-2006, 08:50 PM
I think it's all a matter of preference really. If you're more for sleek, simple, and gets you where you need to go, then the PS3 is for you. However, if you're more for an expansive inferface, one that's almost fully custimizable and also can get you what you need, the 360 is right on track with your expectations.

For me, I own both a 360 and a PSP, and though I do like both interfaces, I prefer the PSP's simply because I rarely take advantage of the custimizable features. One thing that I like about the 360 that you don't have on the PSP is access to your interface at anytime. While playing NFS:MW, I can hook up my favorite songs to run from the cops to. When I'm running from the cops, Ice T's "Cop Killa" is always nice to have on hand, and you can get it from the 360's harddrive, or stream it from your computer. It's little additives like this I like. One thing I truely miss on the PSP is not being able to listen to my songs whilst playing my game. It's a simple feature, and I hope the PS3 can manage to work this in.

All in all, as I said, it's a matter of personal preference. I think both have whatever any person is looking for. It's just simply a matter of working your way through the system.

But that's just me.

The different here is the PSP's CPU being a single processing unit for tasks. This is one of the reasons why its tasks are limited. The PS3 has an SPE and memory specifically and solely for the OS/GUI that runs in the background. So it's close to a sure bet that the experience will be about, if not completely, equal in this very case on the PS3.

Domination
08-02-2006, 10:15 PM
Yet simplicty for simplicity sake makes things harder and more complex in the long run.

The video you showed only shows us a a way to play music having to go through artists then through the albums and then the songs .

As I've asked , How do I pick what device I want to search through? How do I see teh music on my pc ? How do I get to my play lists ? How do I pick which genre of music I want to browse through ?

None of these features are there and thus in the long run its more complicated for the person to get thse features or will take longer to find what your looking for .



Lol but its okay to lcaim its simplier to play music on ? That is funny as hell dude . Like I asked where are the other options ? Will they be included ? If they are where will they be and how are they going to make it so it doesn't confuse you ? It doesn't get much more powerfull and simple than the xbox 360 and itunes menu lay outs .

So will they have it before you see the atrists and albums ? Will they have it after? Will you have to press buttons and bring up new menus to do these things ?

Really tell me ,




That is your problem as the introduction of these things that you feel are there but not shown will add more layers to what the video is showing one way or another .



No what you have stated is personal prefrence based on an incomplete build that is lacking many features of its competition that iff added will increase the steps it would take to browse your music .

Since we have an unfinished GUI, I'll just give you an example of what I believe will happen based on what I see of the PSP:

Besides upgrades for new categories and content/settings icons for visible sections in which you've experienced in the video, there is a slide window for advance options that reappears on the right side of the screen - kinda like Xbox Live, when a certain category is highlighted, not chosen, and a specific face button (Triangle perhaps) is tapped while over a specific destination under that category. Here is where such options can appear.

For content that is chosen from something like an MP3 player, CD, memorystick, etc. a category must first be highlighted. Since we are talking about music here, most likely, this option will be under the music icon. By highlightling the music icon, you are more than likely to see an icon for the PS3's HDD and below that will be a new icon for an MP3 player drive. By using up or down, you can scroll through the prefered icon. Once satisfied, choose your destination. Now you have access to its library.

venomv
08-03-2006, 02:59 AM
What happened to "keep it civil"................

Hrama
08-03-2006, 08:45 AM
Hmmm... haven't seen anything to suggest the thread has been otherwise venomv. Intense debate perhaps, but certainly civil. I really want to know more about the music visualization... the one that they showed was classy... but also boring. I hope they allow users to download more. (or maybe even make them ie: winamp)