How Sony avoided potential disaster - twice.

[gljvd]

The PlayStation 3 didn't have quite the showing at E3 the company would have hoped for and there has been a series of potential blunders over the past fortnight that, while not damaging in the long term, has at least given people pause in their decision about which company to give their money to this year and in the years to come. Both of these snafus are related, directly or indirectly, to Sony's insistence on ramming Blu-ray technology into the PlayStation 3, and you have to question whether it's going to be an albatross around the company's neck.


ITs very interesting and talks about both the back door deal and the used game situation.

Its pretty fair and balanced

Check it out here

http://insider.ign.com/articles/710/710596p1.html


Just over two weeks ago, Sony's American boss, Kaz Hirai, dropped jaws around the world by pricing the PlayStation 3 at $500 and $600 - depending on which model you want. Things have not gone smoothly for his company since then.



The PlayStation 3 didn't have quite the showing at E3 the company would have hoped for and there has been a series of potential blunders over the past fortnight that, while not damaging in the long term, has at least given people pause in their decision about which company to give their money to this year and in the years to come. Both of these snafus are related, directly or indirectly, to Sony's insistence on ramming Blu-ray technology into the PlayStation 3, and you have to question whether it's going to be an albatross around the company's neck.

Whether you're paying $500 or $600, there's no denying that the PlayStation 3 is going to be expensive. Message boards have burned for weeks now as would-be buyers vent their frustration. Probably the most amusing outcome of the inflated price has been the eagerness with which both Microsoft and Sony have tapped Nintendo's Wii as the second-console of choice.


Kaz Hirai delivers the good news

Sony's response to the caterwauling about the price has been to remind us that we should be aware of what we're getting for that money. Blu-ray players don't come cheap and the money you hand over for your PlayStation 3 in November will quickly bump you into the next generation of DVD - at a lower price than a stand-alone player. Apart from the confusion surrounding which of Blu-ray and HD-DVD will come out on top as the next standard disc format, there's also the chance that, much like laserdisc, people will simply ignore both of them.

With HD TV adoption in the US predicted by Sony to hit 25 percent by the end of 2006, there's some support for this idea. If three-quarters of households don't have the technology to see the advantages of Blu-ray over DVD, pushing the PlayStation 3 as a cheap Blu-ray player isn't going to work. The situation is even worse in Europe, where HD broadcasts, a better driver of HD TV adoption, are only now getting started. In the UK, Rupert Murdock's Sky has recently started limited HD broadcasting, and even then early adopters have to pay £300 ($565) for the appropriate decoder box - if they can find one.

Sony has had one fortunate turn of events. A technology consortium recently reached an agreement to push back enforcement of the ICT, or Image Constraint Token, until as late as 2012. The ICT is Hollywood's latest attempt to thwart the evil pirates who are robbing the companies of billions of dollars in profits - if you believe the studios' questionable numbers. The technology requires that any high-definition 720p/1080i/1080p digital signal to an HD TV needs to pass through an HDMI connector or otherwise it will be downsampled to an analog signal barely above current DVD resolution. You can see, then, why people were calling foul at Sony's decision to drop the HDMI connector from the $500 model of the PlayStation 3.

But it's not over yet. Since the agreement is currently just that and not an addition to Blu-ray's technical specifications, there's a chance that the firms could pull out at some point, making your decision to save $100 cost you dearly by the end of the decade. The timing of the agreement is interesting too. Apparently, we won't have to worry about the ICT until 2012, which is around the time that the next round of consoles would be due

The second brouhaha to hit the PlayStation 3 this month had less to do with movies and more to do with games - specifically second-hand games. This has long been a source of great frustration to publishers. Essentially, they're not happy that people pass over new, full-priced games for used ones that can save you anywhere from 10 to 50 percent. At issue is that none of the money that stores make off these secondary sales goes to the publishers. The rhetoric has changed to vitriol over the past year or so, and it's no surprise that publishers are eager to find a way to stop second-hand sales. For a while at least it looked like Sony was on to something.



A recent report from out of the UK said that Sony would implement new technology that would stop all second-hand sales by tying games to the machines they were first played on. Essentially, when you walk into a store and hand over your $60 (or whatever no-doubt high price we're going to be faced with for PlayStation 3 games), you would not be buying a game but rather just the right to use the game. (Whether this means Sony would replace damaged discs for free so that you could continue to use your license wasn't touched on). Cue the frenzy.


Which one will you buy?

Within hours, sites big and small had rounded up the most professional people they could find to talk about the technological reasons why this probably wouldn't happen. The biggest obstacle is that to enforce a scheme like this, all PlayStation 3s would probably need to be online, which isn't likely. But, catastrophe was averted a day later when, after repeating requests for comments to clear up the mess, Sony at last shot down the "speculation". Another potential disaster averted.

But here again, we're not in the clear yet. Some people have pointed out that Sony holds patents that would allow them enforce a one-system-per-game scheme for PlayStation 3 games. Holding a patent and using it are two very different things. It's doubtful whether the rewards of keeping used-game sales at bay would be worth the backlash from gamers. The second-hand market may be a big problem to publishers, but draconian laws aren't going to help anyone. Instead, publishers should either make the games bought new worth hanging on to or deal with the fact that, like the DVD market, if people are done with their purchases, they will sell it.

A big question is whether Blu-ray will be worth it to Sony in the long run. If Blu-ray comes out on top and people start trading up, the answer will be yes. But what happens if HD-DVD surges and overtakes Blu-ray among early adopters? What would be the fallout should both formats fail? With the Xbox 360's external drive, Microsoft has positioned itself well here. Blu-ray and HD-DVD are late in arriving and uptake is probably not going to be anything like that when DVD was introduced. People have only now come to the point where they've re-bought their movie collection on DVD. Asking them to do it again is going to be a hard sell. Will the PlayStation 3 do as well if you take movies out of the equation and Blu-ray becomes a format only for games and other data? Kaz Hirai is hoping that's a question he'll never have to face.

[masteratt]

IGN Insider only(?)
Can you post the whole article?

[xbdestroya]

JVD can you just post the whole thing here? I mean - you have to be a IGN Insider to read it, y'know? And I'm not signing up just for this. ;)

*Plus* - your post doesn't have anything to do with dodging bullets like the title implies!

So yeah just post the whole thing; there's absolutely no copyright enforcement on these forums, for better or worse, so no worries on your end in doing so. :)

[gljvd]

Sorry , didn't notice it was insider haha

But yea i normaly like to link to the site .

[xbdestroya]

Sorry , didn't notice it was insider haha

But yea i normaly like to link to the site .

Well yes, linking is good - and I would say required in a sense - but at the same time I mean don't hold back on us for IGN's sake, y'know? :smoke:

[masteratt]

Article was not that good to read. XBD can write a better one, no doubt ;)
I've skipped most parts because they have been discussed to death here with more detail.

This looks like an attempt from IGN to 'place order' in it's forums.

[xbdestroya]

Well, yeah after reading it I'm kind of scratching my head. I mean, what were these ways Sony got lucky? As far as ICT flagging goes, obviously Sony knew these talks were going on, considering their prominent role as both studio and format inventor. So I think they knew from the start that this was likely going to be the case when they announced the HDMI-free version. It's not anything to do with getting lucky here.

And as for the used game thing - I don't even understand. How do you avoid a disaster by simply denying a rumor? It's some pretty whacky thinking on the authors end. Not to mention he seems to be caught up in the mindset of last years rumor, since the form this rumor took wasn't the unique ID route that would require the Internet connection.

Ah well.

[OmniStalgic]

Good read Gljvd...Yesterday I saw a comercial of the lastest "Underworld" movie. At the end, the announcer said available on DVD and coming soon to Blue-Ray...If the word gets put out there soon enough, Blue-Ray will be a plus for Sony. I think the PSP UMD movies failed not because they didn't offer anything new-but because they were just too expensive...w/Blue-Ray they could just release bundles of blu-ray and UMD or blu-ray and DVD and it should work out in the end...Believe it or not-everyone I know does want a HDTV. Sales are on the front page of all the big electronic stores. So I would think people would want their movies in hi-def as well. This battle will be one to watch...

We all know IGN is a little off guys...cut them some slack-they are actually good to read sometimes...

[makeitlookreal]

If Sony *ever* tried to ban the sale of used games I hope everyone would boycott and refuse to purchase any Sony product ever again. I like games, but am not a "hardcore" gamer because I don't have that many games. When I do play games I play at someone elses house. My friends who are hardcore gamers usually purchase the VAST majority of their games used except for the few they absolutely must get the day they are released.

Banning used games from being sold and tying one game to one console is an absolutely HORRIBLE way to SCREW their consumers up the rear end. If Sony tries this (lets hope they don't) the gaming community needs to rally in a way that will rattle the gaming world! Our cries of outrage should be heard from the United States all the way to Europe and Japan!

But most importantly, I would hope that the gaming community would work together to completely ruin the PS3's launch by spreading the word for people not to purchase a single Sony console or other product until the sitution is resolved by Sony allowing used games.

Now, I know RIGHT NOW Sony has denied ued games will be banned. But the truth is that we have to be on our guard because they could try to pull something, and if they do we need to be ready.

If I purchased a PS3 and they pulled something like that afterwards I would grab my PS3, destroy it, and then send it to them via mail with a letter telling them I would rather waste 600 dollars than use any of their products.

[Infernal]

MILR I must say your very passionate about your views.


Yesterday I saw a comercial of the lastest "Underworld" movie. At the end, the announcer said available on DVD and coming soon to Blue-Ray
Yah I saw that too, I have seen 2 or 3 movies advertising Blu-Ray now, didnt notice any for HD-DVD yet, but maybe I just missed them.

Anyway I dont really get how Sony narrowly avoided disaster here. They didnt stop people from using used games just like the past 2 generations? They allowed movie companies to wait until 2012 to require HDMI for their movies? So basically they werent morons... Well good for them.

[OmniStalgic]

Anyway I dont really get how Sony narrowly avoided disaster here. They didnt stop people from using used games just like the past 2 generations? They allowed movie companies to wait until 2012 to require HDMI for their movies? So basically they werent morons... Well good for them.

ditto...maybe they were just trying to hype up one of there stories for the subscribers...

[Xerxes]

MILR I must say your very passionate about your views.


Yah I saw that too, I have seen 2 or 3 movies advertising Blu-Ray now, didnt notice any for HD-DVD yet, but maybe I just missed them.

Anyway I dont really get how Sony narrowly avoided disaster here. They didnt stop people from using used games just like the past 2 generations? They allowed movie companies to wait until 2012 to require HDMI for their movies? So basically they werent morons... Well good for them.

I haven't seen any either for HD-DVD. I wonder what's wrong? It has been out a while before Blu-Ray yet you see no advertisements for movies in HD-DVD, weird. If this continues like this, say hello to Blu-Ray bieng the new format.

[BahnNZ]

I hear Sony America have fired their publicity guy I think, I've lost the link.

Good. Some head somewhere had to roll. The crap with the PSP graffiti, the way 360 is gathering mind share amongst the frag crowd, the ship wreck of E3. An Apprentice "You're fired" moment was needed.

These companies get hung on "Potential lost earnings". Some guy bought a game cheap for $10 instead of new for $50, that's a lost earning. Not considering if it wasn't available for $10 it wouldn't have been bought, people like the game then buy the sequel new, etc etc...

[xbdestroya]

I hear Sony America have fired their publicity guy I think, I've lost the link.

Good. Some head somewhere had to roll. The crap with the PSP graffiti, the way 360 is gathering mind share amongst the frag crowd, the ship wreck of E3. An Apprentice "You're fired" moment was needed.

These companies get hung on "Potential lost earnings". Some guy bought a game cheap for $10 instead of new for $50, that's a lost earning. Not considering if it wasn't available for $10 it wouldn't have been bought, people like the game then buy the sequel new, etc etc...

Uh, you're all sorts of misconstruing the situation Applefiend. ;)

First of all it's a woman, and second of all she quit.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3142&Itemid=2

This is off topic by the way. :smoke:

[BahnNZ]

Should have been fired. :)

[Helios]

The whole second-hand game issue wouldnt just screw over places like Gamestop and EB but just simply playing a game at someone else's house would be gone too, guess that counts out Blockbuster too. In the long run this sort of technology would screw over everyone. A good portion of my games are second hand and the only reason ive bought sequels like MGS3 new is because of MGS2 being bought second hand.

[Xerxes]

What disaster? I read that article and I don't see a disaster. Between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, I can care less about who wins as long as I can still play DVD's on my Blu-Ray player and still play games with BD's.

[Xerxes]

Should have been fired. :)

Sorry to say; she did suck at her job.

[xbdestroya]

Sorry to say; she did suck at her job.

Wait, this woman has been responsible for the Sony 'hype' machine in the US since Playstation 1 launched - a machine that until PS3 everyone thought was pretty good - how in the world did she suck? Xerxes, you were like seven years old when this woman was doing her thing!

Anyway I don't think the weak E3 showing is on her shoulders by any stretch at all. This woman can't make the games look better than they do, determine the price of the console, or have the head of the company announce a feature that mimics a competitors main selling point. What did she do wrong exactly? Everything that went *wrong* at E3 was determined at a level higher than hers.

[Infernal]

Well was she the one responsible for those squirrel PSP commercials? Because if so... theres nothing to be said here.

[xbdestroya]

Ok anyway - topic people, topic.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

for serious. It's good to see the talk of nixing 2nd hand games was dispelled. That would be the nail in the coffin.
I would not buy a PS3 if that came true. The guy who's immediate reaction to the price announcement was, 'time to start saving!'

[Xerxes]

She may have been good back in the day but she lost her magic.

[casualkiss]

Second hand games is a REAL problem... far worse than piracy.

Here is an idea, how about Sony gives the publishers a choice. They can sell normal copies of their games for $60 AND/OR games you can't resell for $40.

Best of both worlds.

[Xerxes]

Second hand games is a REAL problem... far worse than piracy.

Here is an idea, how about Sony gives the publishers a choice. They can sell normal copies of their games for $60 AND/OR games you can't resell for $40.

Best of both worlds.

That's the problem. No one would buy the games that you can't resell even at 40. I would buy a game for 60 and then resell it at 40. I still made a profit. I really only spend 20 dollars on it. Anyway, that still doesn't defeat the problem because they will still have second hand games.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

uh, if you buy a game for 60 and sell it for 40, you're losing 20 dollars.
basic math, xerxes! lol!!

[Xerxes]

uh, if you buy a game for 60 and sell it for 40, you're losing 20 dollars.
basic math, xerxes! lol!!

No! LoL! The companies are losing money (20); I basically bought the game for 20 bucks because I sold the game for 40 and bought it for 60! So instead of buying a game that costs 40 dollars, it feels like I bought it for 20 dollars. You get it?

[xbdestroya]

Well so what you want to say though Xerxes is you're getting a discount, not making a profit. :smoke:

[Xerxes]

Yes. There it goes. What Xbdestroya said. lol

[gljvd]

THe problem with used games , is it takes away thier profits .

Like everything else items sell at diffrent rates at diffrent price points .

For a moment lets think of a world with out used games.

A dev could launch at 60$ Sell 1m units .

Drop the price to 40$ and sell 400k more

Drop the price to 20$ and sell 200k more

Drop the price ot 10 and sell another 100k

For 1.7m copies

However with used games

You sell new at 60$ you sell 800k because a few weeks or days later its used for 50$
You drop the price to 40$ and you only sell 200k because there are already used games at 20$ or 30$

You drop the game to 20$ and you sell only 100k because the game is already at 10-15$

You drop to 10$ and the game is already at 2-7$ used so you only sell 50k

So you only sell 1.15m units

Of course i'm sure numbers vary but you can see the problems it presents . Thats why it not so far fetched that a company would do this as the devs would love it.


The only worrying part is at some point in the future if sony is lleading again by the distances they were leading in the ps2 era , they may deo this anyway on the later gen games

[Viano]

work harder and get your own, then I gurantee you will appreciate more.

and doesn't BD have advantage on disc space also? Why argue not to have it.

Sony is pushing things forward, and sometimes it's people that are not accepting them.

[CrumCon]

It is just strange that Sony announced the price almost a half before the launch.

Sony havent done this before with PS1 up to PSP.. infact NO compny would do something like this.. especially in this multi billion market with only TWO competition.

[Xerxes]

THe problem with used games , is it takes away thier profits .

Like everything else items sell at diffrent rates at diffrent price points .

For a moment lets think of a world with out used games.

A dev could launch at 60$ Sell 1m units .

Drop the price to 40$ and sell 400k more

Drop the price to 20$ and sell 200k more

Drop the price ot 10 and sell another 100k

For 1.7m copies

However with used games

You sell new at 60$ you sell 800k because a few weeks or days later its used for 50$
You drop the price to 40$ and you only sell 200k because there are already used games at 20$ or 30$

You drop the game to 20$ and you sell only 100k because the game is already at 10-15$

You drop to 10$ and the game is already at 2-7$ used so you only sell 50k

So you only sell 1.15m units

Of course i'm sure numbers vary but you can see the problems it presents . Thats why it not so far fetched that a company would do this as the devs would love it.


The only worrying part is at some point in the future if sony is lleading again by the distances they were leading in the ps2 era , they may deo this anyway on the later gen games

Great example, but you see why alot of people want to have used games; it sells for cheaper and you are able to resell your games.

Gamestop/EB Games also are getting even more money out of you. Here's how: You give them a game worth 40 dollars and they give you fifteen dollars and then they resell it for 30 dollars. Then a person buys the game you sold for 30 dollars and the cycle repeats.

[gljvd]

Great example, but you see why alot of people want to have used games; it sells for cheaper and you are able to resell your games.


Well that isn't fully true . Games will sell cheaper. They allways drop in price. It just takes awhile for the games to reach thier saturation point for sales at each price lvl .

Also your getting ripped off by selling the games back. For example 2 months after launch of the 360 , gamestop was buying kameo for 12$ and selling it for 55$

Its all just one big scam. I work for the companys trust me. Its thier bread and butter buying from tards (and i'm not saying everyone who trades a game in is a retard) that buy the crappiest games and trade them in a week and a half later.

You might think that trading your games in is a good deal. But using a rental service is much better. There are some games you can beat in 4 hours and no matter how good they are , its not worth spending 20$ on , but a 3$ rental at blockbuster saves you alot more money. Or from a 15$ a month online

[Xerxes]

Ahhh yes..rental. There are so many people who rent games. Aren't they (game companies) losing money when someone rents the game rather than buys it? I think renting and trading are two things that actually drop game sells.

[gljvd]

Ahhh yes..rental. There are so many people who rent games. Aren't they (game companies) losing money when someone rents the game rather than buys it? I think renting and trading are two things that actually drop game sells.


Actually rental companys pay a small fee per rental .

Renting does drop sales if the game is crap or to fast . However the good games get bought.


On the same note , lack of used games would be a huge boon for us gamers. I know you look at only that money aspect. But what would happen if over night every gamer had to suddenly be held accountable for thier purchase choices.

You'd quickly see bad games disapear. We'd get a stinker now and then , but the average qualtiy of games will increase as gamers will be forced to read reviews and see if the game is worth spending money on.

[Viano]

I suggest you go to china and see, $20 gets you 20+ games loL.

[makeitlookreal]

gljvd,

You are exactly right. The developers would LOVE for Sony to put an end to the selling of used games. Also, by linking one game to one PS3 if you really wanted a game you could not even borrow your friend's copy for the weekend!

This is a downright travesty and we all need to keep a close watch to make sure Sony does NOT pull a fast one on us. For example, they denied over and over again that there was ANY delay in the PS3's launch this past spring. Then suddenly they admitted there would be a delay.

This means they were flat out LYING to us without reservation!

Now, if it suited their business needs they would lie to us again, and especially about something like this issue that could send millions of people off to buy 360's instead of PS3s.

This is a major, major issue. A few weeks ago when I went to EB Games and Gamestop people were playing the 360 and claiming how they were going to buy it instead of the PS3 because of the used game issue. They were very, very upset. I told them that Sony had denied it, but to keep on the look out because Sony could indeed pull a fast one.

If Sony does try to implement this at some point I believe the gamers of the world need to unite and create a massive effort with a supurbly done website to start a boycott of Sony's products.

You see, the PS3 is probably worth $599 in my opinion. However, the move to ban used games is downright nasty and criminalizes a HUGE segment of the gaming world. If they want to sell more NEW games then they need to make BETTER games people really, really want to get as soon as they are released. Period.

They don't need to screw us over.

I will NOT purchase a PS3 or even continue using a PS3 I may have purchased if at anytime Sony implements such a system.

[gljvd]

You are exactly right. The developers would LOVE for Sony to put an end to the selling of used games. Also, by linking one game to one PS3 if you really wanted a game you could not even borrow your friend's copy for the weekend

There is no proof to that . You could simply have to load your acess to a 16mb memory stick and you can bring it with you.

Aside from that , the other option is that its a law to prevent gamestores from selling the games. Not a hardware block.


This is a downright travesty and we all need to keep a close watch to make sure Sony does NOT pull a fast one on us. For example, they denied over and over again that there was ANY delay in the PS3's launch this past spring. Then suddenly they admitted there would be a delay.


If you don't like a choice sony makes , just boy cott them. I don't see the problems


You see, the PS3 is probably worth $599 in my opinion. However, the move to ban used games is downright nasty and criminalizes a HUGE segment of the gaming world. If they want to sell more NEW games then they need to make BETTER games people really, really want to get as soon as they are released. Period.


I disagree . If people didn't buy any crap that came out (50 cent i'm looking at you) just because it had a popular name in it , you wouldn't need to trade in so many games.

The developers need to make money. There is no reason why the company that makes game of the year should loose any profits to the used market.

I fully support sony implementing a eula method like the pc sector that would not allow stores to resell games (or ebay)

This way it coudl stil lbe traded between friends. However by and large the devs will make the money they should make . If you don't think a game is 60$ then wait till it drops to a price you want.

[Sephiroth_VII]

MILR, there is a big difference between this,m and the PS3 delay. The delay was n't Sony's idea. If they had been able to launch here in spring, they would've done it. They were forced, by realism, to hold back the PS3 for a few more months.

Now, no one will be forcing Sony to apply this one-console-per-game patent. It's Sony's choice, and therefore it's not the same as lying about the launch date.

[gljvd]

Sephiroth.

I think the major thing with a spring launch would have been the games. Nothing shown at e3 was in a state to be launched around e3 time frame. THe launch would have come off worse than the xbox 360 launch .

However with an extra 6 months , alot of those fall xbox 360 games will be multiplatform games for the ps3 and 360 in late fall and early 2007.

Of course they seem to have given ms enough time to ship another 5m units before they even launch. Which could be even more damaging than a crappy launch.

The other problem could have been price. This 600$ price point may only be reachable (Even with heavy losses) in the fall.

While if they released in the spring it could have been worse like 600/700$ for the two units .

[Sephiroth_VII]

I agree, glJVD. But still, you've only got one chance to make a first impression. If the parents saw the PS3 value pack priced at 699, standing next to the 360 premium, priced at 399, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what little Jimmy would find under the christmas tree.

With PS3's current pricing, of course, the same thing could happen. But, as has been discussed elsewhere, once the hardcore gamers have bought their share of PS3's, Sony is very likely to issue a price drop. This will of course result in drawing in the casual gamers and children, and make sure that PS3 stays competitive.

[gljvd]

well ms will have a price drop too.

However that isn't really the point . I think the combination of things i listed above were the reason for the missed launch.

1) Games , 2) price 3) production.

There is allways the other idea that sony just played its fans like sheep and lied strait to them at last e3 to stall people from buying a 360.

[Viano]

well ms will have a price drop too.

However that isn't really the point . I think the combination of things i listed above were the reason for the missed launch.

1) Games , 2) price 3) production.

There is allways the other idea that sony just played its fans like sheep and lied strait to them at last e3 to stall people from buying a 360.


Yeah and where's the toy story graphic from x1

[Sephiroth_VII]

Lol!!!

[gljvd]

Yeah and where's the toy story graphic from x1

Do you really want to turn this into a flame thread ?

Because if you did , i could reply by saying Well where is the "blank"

and let you choose from 3 ethernet ports , 2 hdmi ports , true hd , FF7 real time graphics on the ps2 , toy story graphics on the ps2 , the online service to rival the dreamcast service that they were working on bakc in 2000 ... to name a few .

But we are more mature than that aren't we ? :closed:

[Viano]

Do you really want to turn this into a flame thread ?

Because if you did , i could reply by saying Well where is the "blank"

and let you choose from 3 ethernet ports , 2 hdmi ports , true hd , FF7 real time graphics on the ps2 , toy story graphics on the ps2 , the online service to rival the dreamcast service that they were working on bakc in 2000 ... to name a few .

But we are more mature than that aren't we ? :closed:

I'm not saying who lied what and it's bad or good, you brought up the thyts.

ill reply when I get back, and it's m$ said that xbot would give the toy story graphic.

jvd can you just ignore me? you're helpless..

[gljvd]

Nvidia first brought up toy story graphics with thier geforce graphics card.

Not to be out done , sony soon claimed they could do it also.

Ms later countered by saying they too could do it . Of course we all know how that turned out.

My point above was in jest. I clearly pointed out the most likely reasons why and then the not so likely (but could still be plausable) option. Of course you couldn't resist knocking ms in the reply even though no one was talking about ms .

Anyway , it is best that I ignore you and your back on my ignore list now. Sadly I see that you post alot right after my posts and it makes me wonder what other bs your posting following my posts.

[makeitlookreal]

gljvd,

Personally, regardless how they implemented such a demented plot I think it should be met with fierce resistance from the gaming community such as the world has never seen. You are right, it could come in the form of a law to stop game shops from re-selling games or it could come in some other method. But REGARDLESS "how" they plan to do it they simply should not, and I hope the gaming community will have the courage to unite together and boycott Sony if they even *try* any of these methods.

And the "problem" is that if we notice that Sony might be going down this route we need to act QUICKLY so we can have the best chance of stopping their dastardly plan in it's tracks! If we don't act fast enough they could get the upper hand on the gaming community. So we need to watch carefully so if Sony tries any of these methods of restricting the re-use of games we can boycott them and publically (but peacefully) show our outrage to the MAXIMUM extent possible!

[makeitlookreal]

Sephiroth,

The point I am trying to get at is that they LIED about the delay. If they needed to have a delay because the console was not ready for launch that is fine, but they should have not LIED to us REPEATEDLY. If they were not going to make the launch (which was pretty obvious at the time) they should have just been honest and open with us about it instead of lying.

This is the same issue. Because Sony LIED to us about the PS3 delay (when obviously they knew it was going to happen) and they could LIE to us about this to destract us so they can secretly be working on a method of restricting used games while we focus on other things.

We MUST not allow ourselves to get destracted because the possibility of restricting the re-usage or re-sale of games is simply one step to far. We cannot absolutely "force" Sony to do anything, but we can unite together, boycott their products, and create such a firestorm that they can either abandon all such plans or allow the PS3 to become a huge failure with a horrible launch.

There is always a war between consumers and producers. It is not a war in which anyone's rights are violated and it is a peaceful war. But it is a fierce war in which the side which gives in first will always LOSE. We CANNOT allow ourselves to lose to Sony if they try to implement a scheme such as this one. We need to stand our ground, battle with our DOLLARS, and refuse to spend one cent on any Sony product. When their bottom line starts looking bad enough they WILL change their tune.

[gljvd]

makeitlookreal.

Its great that you believe making used games illegal is bad , but can you point out why.

I've already pointed out why its a good thing .I listed reasons why its a good thing.

[venomv]

I would have no problem with Sony trying to stop the used market (if they where). The not being able to play the games on another PS3 would make me really mad, but if they tried another method to stop used game sales, or even get a percentge from them I would be all for it.

[Luis]

So, what's the point of this thread again? :huh:

[makeitlookreal]

It is very bad for the consumer.

I assume that all of you are consumers and do not work for game companies. If you work for a game company or Sony it is probably good for you. Otherwise, it is horrible!

It means that instead of being able to shop around to get a title at a discount price you will have to wait until the price is officially lowered. Basically, this means that you are going to be spending MORE MONEY on games!

Right now if you shop smart you can wait a month or so for a title, look around, and snag one at a good discount. Now, obviously there are a lot of people who sell their games to places like EB and don't get a good return. If they are not getting a good return then they need to be more selective and use their clout to get better prices.

But if you are SMART you can sell games you don't like and also buy used games at a discount!

Basically, it is much easier for the producers to come out ahead than the consumer. However, if this gets passed it will be impossible for the consumer to come out ahead.

I will NEVER buy a console that does not allow for the sale of its used games!

Don't any of you understand??? Don't any of you care! It seems all of you want what is best for Sony or the game developers instead of YOU the consumers!

It is a battle. Either you are going to come out ahead (or at least in a better position) or the game developers and Sony.

Seriously, I care about how much money I spend on games and probably plan to really start purchasing more games when the PS3 comes out. Since I am not in a high income bracket probably a significant portion will be USED games! And I want to be able to shop smart and snag copies at a discount.

Does this mean the developers will make less money? Of course. But it means I the consumer can SAVE money!

If you are SO CONCERNED about Sony and the game developers making money then volunteer to write each game maker an extra check for Twenty Bucks when you buy their games! Or mail Sony an extra $10 dollars or so.

Personally, I am going to watch out for myself the CONSUMER. That is our JOB in a FREE MARKET ECONOMY (or at least what should be a free market but really isn't at this time). Personally, I like to share with others but when it comes to my purchases I am 100% a capitalist!

If a game developer you like is not making as much money as you think they deserve write them a check. But please don't support them milking consumers out of even more money.

[Viano]

So, what's the point of this thread again? :huh:

How Sony avoided potential disaster - twice.

♪♪♪

[venomv]

MILR we can only gain from from them stopping used game the way I see it. Sure we will end up paying more, but countless companies have went out of business, some of which have good games and good ideas. But because they didn't get the sales they should have they won't anymore. The way I see it the more money the companies make the better games they will probably make, for the most part.

And I am going to school for game devolopment, so theres that, too, lol.

And I also said I would be happy with the game companies taking a percentage of used sales, that would be the best of both worlds, even though we will probably pay a bit more.

[Nameless]

So, what's the point of this thread again? :huh:
Good question...:closed:

[stanDarsh]

Keep it civil or it will be locked.

[cliffbo]

So, what's the point of this thread again? :huh:

to stage another subliminal attack on Sony!

[edoshin]

to stage another subliminal attack on Sony!

by the usual parties..

[jaxmkii]

Whether you're paying $500 or $600, there's no denying that the PlayStation 3 is going to be expensive. Message boards have burned for weeks now as would-be buyers vent their frustration.

i find this phlosophy funny...

i have observed that most folk that where planing to buy it are still buying it, they bitch alot! but never the less there still going to buy it

while all the whiners that say "oh hell no im not paying 500-600usd" probly whernt going to get it anyway and have already bought there 360 or Wii preorder

[Xerxes]

People have the right to sell games and buy games. Once they buy it, it becomes your possesion. The only law they have out there is that you can not copy/burn CD's on to the computer or disk and sell copies for your own gain.

If Gamestop/EB Games were only selling refurbished/used games then Sony would of made it illegal to trade their items, but they are not since the gamestores sell a combination of both used and new games/consoles at their store which makes it legal.

I myself buy used games and if Sony tried to block consumers from selling /trading items of equal/less value, then they just lost more than 90% who have at least one or two used games in their collection or has sold at least one or more games in their lifetime.

Comsumers want choices. If they are restricted to getting a game and keeping it forever, then no one would buy the console (well a few of thoes hard-core die-hard fans). I know I would not want to buy a console that I can not sell because I am not allowed to. I hope that Sony does not agree with this because I would be forced to buy 360. :(

Sony and game publishers will lose even more than they did before if they did this.

[jaxmkii]

^^^ yea that would suck. but it would not stop me from getting a PS3...

i woulnt blame them if they did that. devs need to eat too

and most of theise places give you crap on your trade in. thats why i still have ALL of my PS2 games all 52 of them