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Viper
12-16-2003, 03:22 PM
Long read but well worth it for Nintendo and classic gaming fans.


In 1951, a 29-year-old Ralph Baer was asked to design the greatest TV set ever. Baer envisioned an idea far beyond what he had been requested to create—a device that allowed people to play simple games on their TVs. It was an absurd idea that Baer’s boss denied be lived out. Ralph Baer was the first man to believe in video games.

Cambridge, 1952—A.S. Douglas created the first video game ever. Douglas invented a simple tic-tac-toe game on an EDSAC vacuum-tube computer on a 35x16-pixel screen upon completion of his Ph.D. at the University of Cambridge with a thesis of Human-Computer Interaction. A.S. Douglas was the first man to develop a computer game.

Skipping to 1966, we once again meet Mr. Ralph Baer, now attempting to create his TV game after a few experiments proved it was possible to develop fully functional and responsive computer games. Baer developed up to seven prototypes that played several different video games. The first was a simple game involving two squares chasing each other and the last was known as Brown Box, which played paddle ball games, shooting games, and others. Magnavox helped Mr. Baer bring his vision to the mainstream world, and in May of 1971, the very first game console was born: the Magnavox Odyssey.

From that first, simple vision of Ralph Baer came Pong, Atari, and—to a much later extent—the first Nintendo Entertainment System. The entire gaming world as we know it is all due to one man with an idea. Do we remember his name? Maybe a few of us who are old enough to do. For the most part, the gaming population knows not the name of the creator of the video game. We think of Nintendo as the setter of the bar for advanced video game technology, but wasn’t it A.S. Douglas? Wasn’t it the Odyssey? Wasn’t it the ones before Nintendo stepped into the gaming world?

As far as the mainstream gaming community—a huge chunk of the gaming population—is concerned, Pong was just some crappy game that some old guy made in the 60’s. Then Nintendo came, then some other stuff, then Grand Theft Auto 3. Oh, and Nintendo started to suck and become kiddy somewhere in between the NES and GTA3. But that’s all that’s really important anyway, right?

Sony has been the biggest competition for Nintendo yet. Atari tried and Sega died, Bandai fell through, and Neo Geo didn’t stand a chance. But when the PlayStation came as an offspring from the Super Nintendo, it pummeled the N64 (and Dreamcast) into the ground. It did so because of superior hardware and graphical capabilities, franchises that were made popular on the SNES and NES (namely Final Fantasy), and a head start on the industry—the PSX came out before the N64 got a threshold on gamers around the globe.

Here’s a question for all of you who bought into the PlayStation hype: why did you do it? Why did you choose the PlayStation over the N64 or Dreamcast? Furthermore, why did you stick with it? It was because the games were just plain good, yes? Without a shadow of a doubt, the PSX was home to terrific titles from Final Fantasy VII to Resident Evil. Nobody’s saying that the PlayStation wasn’t worth your money, because it was. It was a great game system.

And you know what? That’s all it was: a great game system. It played game and music CDs, and that’s all. It was a video game console. It was what Baer and Douglas had thought of when they created their prototypes; it was the ability to play games on video screens. And that’s what we did for three decades—we played games from Pong to Mario to Grand Theft Auto, and we enjoyed them. We enjoyed living the lives of valiant knights and inner city gangsters. We enjoyed blazing through futuristic racetracks at 1000 mph. We enjoyed winning the Stanley Cup as famous athletes. We enjoyed playing video games, plain and simple.

So, what does Sony do after dominating two generations of video game consoles? They only make things harder, much to many gamers’ dismays. Sony’s PlayStation 2 introduced the element of playing DVDs, which was fine—the era of VHS was dying and DVDs were taking the media by storm. It’s only sensible for Sony to want to cash in on that market. But they also made it so that one must have bought a DVD remote if they wished to view their movies with ease. The Xbox arrived some years later, and it, too, incorporated the option to play DVDs and CDs. However, Microsoft also took a step further to best Sony and they enabled the Xbox to rip music from CDs. Well, that’s all reasonable, right? I mean, we’d all be doing this stuff on our computers anyway, so why not pay extra for them to be included in a game console, right? …Right?

But Microsoft didn’t stop there, because there’s more you can do this in Swiss army knife of a console. The DVD Movie Playback Kit is only $30, and it "is a quick way to expand the functionality of the best gaming machine around!" (Or so says the official Xbox website.) The Xbox also has a lot of other junk to be bought by consumer whores (as if Microsoft needs the extra money) including a Music Mixer, System link cable, and Xbox Live Starter Kit. Not to be outdone, Sony made an external hard drive for the PS2 (the Xbox’s is built in), Network Adapter, and now they’re coming out with the EyeToy for more gaming involvement.

Wait a second… I’m missing something… What was that other thing called? Made by that company with the N in its name? Um… It was the Game-something-or-other, I think. Well, it doesn’t really matter, now does it? All they had was that NES that began the era of video games and then some other stuff, but then PSX came. Yeah, and after that, the PS2 and Xbox and all those DVD playing capabilities arrived. Now that company with the N is just kiddy and stupid.

Oh, and did I mention that it doesn’t play DVDs or CDs? I know; it’s astonishing. Who’d have thought of it—a modern game playing console that DOESN’T do more than play games? Woah.

Well, it exists, believe it or not. The Nintendo GameCube is the lone console of the three modern day contenders that doesn’t rely on flashy add-ons or cheesy, expensive, and, most importantly, tacky secondary features. True, Nintendo does have broadband and LAN adapters. And the GCN can hook up to the GBA for extra game secrets. And, yes, they made the Panasonic GameQ to play DVDs, even if it is only available in Japan. And that iQue contraption that’s only available in China.

Notice the trend—none of these interfere with the GameCube’s life. The GameQ and iQue are totally separate machines that Nintendo made for specific reasons, but they don’t add anything to the original GCN. Only the GBA-GCN Link Cable is a big offender, but that’s just one tacky extra. Plus, it helps play games, in one way or another. Just like online peripherals, it enhances the gaming experience.

In the end, isn’t that all we want? The most enhanced gaming experience available? I know that, personally, I just want to play games on my game consoles. I don’t want to pay $50 or $100 more to play DVDs or be able to use Playback DVD remotes or CDs or listen to custom soundtracks. Sure, I’ll play online or with my Game Boy, because those make it more enjoyable in one way or another. But Sony & Microsoft’s new contraptions are complete garbage, no matter how unique or interesting they may seem.

The latest offender is just one example of Sony’s headstrong ways. They’re already thinking two consoles ahead and envisioning what the PS4 will be able to handle. A news article reporting this (taken from GameSpot.com) is below:

Confirming what has been rumored for days, SCEE vice president Phil Harrison told an Australian newspaper that "future generations" of Sony PlayStations will include motion-sensor and camera hardware similar to that found in the EyeToy PlayStation 2 peripheral. Talking to the Australian Financial Review, SCEE vice president Phil Harrison described the EyeToy's motion-sensor and camera hardware as a "signpost for things in the future." While he didn't mention the PlayStation 3 specifically, it is likely the console will incorporate current hardware when it launches in 2005.

That’s good to know. Now we know to expect a built in EyeToy so we don’t have to pay $60 extra for it, instead we can buy a console that costs $50 more. It’s a deal, I suppose.

Harrison's comments on the use of camera technology in following generations of Sony consoles were even more interesting. "We'll be able to extrapolate eye movement and gestural recognition, more complicated finger movement," he said. Harrison described next-gen PlayStation controls as motion-sensor interfaces similar to that of Tom Cruise's computer in Minority Report.

Hey, that was a good movie. It can’t fail! But wait, what happens if I scratch my nose when playing? Does that count as a punch?

Harrison said Sony researchers are developing facial-expression-recognition software which, working in tandem with a camera, could sense users' emotions. "The logical next step is to deduce from a person's facial expression and demeanor what their emotion state is," he said. "If you can attach very high-resolution, low-cost video cameras [to computers] you can deduce some quite interesting things about their users."

Too many things can go wrong to even begin the sarcasm, but let’s just say that an attractive female in an awkward position can easily change your facial expression. I mean, what are they gonna have happen as a result of that? Will they have Rikku start giving the gamer winks to encourage them to keep on playing? I foresee a bright future for gamers around the globe.

Harrison also envisioned a day where a PlayStation could not only sense a player's emotional reaction to entertainment, but also offer advice on alternatives—like a cross between TiVo and HAL 9000. "If somebody is watching [a show] and starts to slump back and lose the will to live," said Harrison, "[the computer] might suggest some other forms of entertainment." However, Harrison admits that technology wouldn't show up until the PS4 at the earliest. "It's within the realm of technical believability today, but it requires a supercomputer to do it," he said.

PS4 at the earliest, you say? A supercomputer needs to do this? So, what figures are we looking at here, to buy this so-called "supercomputer"? $2000, or something more plausible that only rich people can buy? I still say that it’s much too early for sensing whether or not slouching—which is caused by playing these same video games for hours on end, for the record—determines your game mood.

The article ends there, leaving the reader in a bit of suspense as to whether or not Sony is on crack. But that’s ok, since I’ll bet dollars to donuts that nobody will buy this overpriced and useless garbage in the first place. Doesn’t anybody remember A.S. Douglas? He made a tic-tac-toe game, for crying out loud. We’re not talking about supercomputers and facial expressions in our video games. Somebody needs to give Sony a harsh slap on the face and get their heads out of the clouds, because it’s clear they’re trying to get out of the video game realm and create a virtual reality one. That’s fine and dandy, but what will happen to the old PlayStations? If everything evolves into virtual reality and the like, what will be the poor man’s outlet for pressing a button to make a man jump? What will happen to Ralph Baer’s dream? Nobody remembers the man now, let alone when simple video games don’t even exist any more.

Make games as realistic or as technologically advanced as you want, Sony, just leave the consoles as they are. The PlayStation was original, the PS2 was excessive, the PS3 is shaping up to be out of line, and the PS4? I can’t believe they’re even thinking that far ahead.

I don’t want a DVD player in my game console, or a CD player, or a CD ripper. I don’t want to pay extra for a remote control that I might lose in a week. I don’t want to change my facial expression to play a game, or move my fingers, or sit upright. I like lying down when playing games, but that doesn’t mean I’m falling asleep while playing them. I don’t want more add-ons and capabilities; I don’t want TiVo, hard drives, or emotion sensors. I don’t want more complexity or distraction in my life, let alone interfering with my gaming life. I especially don’t want to pay more than $500 for a gaming console.

I just wanna play the damn games, and it seems that only Nintendo is listening.

Prince
12-16-2003, 04:00 PM
What a stupid editorial.

Most of the stuff he mentioned (such as the PS2 HDD,EyeToy,Sys LinkCable,XBL kit) are optional addons just like the GBPlayer, GBA-GCN link cable, E-Reader, BB Adapter,etc etc is. If he doesn't want 'a DVD remote that he'll lose in a week' then he doesn't have to buy it. I'd rather have the option to buy a DVD remote and get DVD playback then not have it at all.

Viper
12-16-2003, 04:10 PM
What a stupid editorial.

Most of the stuff he mentioned (such as the PS2 HDD,EyeToy,Sys LinkCable,XBL kit) are optional addons just like the GBPlayer, GBA-GCN link cable, E-Reader, BB Adapter,etc etc is. If he doesn't want 'a DVD remote that he'll lose in a week' then he doesn't have to buy it. I'd rather have the option to buy a DVD remote and get DVD playback then not have it at all.
Prince, you missed his point completely.

JackieChanIsGOD
12-16-2003, 04:22 PM
For the most part, the gaming population knows not the name of the creator of the video game.


That sentence.... isn't right...

Viper
12-16-2003, 04:29 PM
That sentence.... isn't right...
Are you saying that the majority of the gaiming population knows who Ralph Baer is?

Prince
12-16-2003, 04:38 PM
Prince, you missed his point completely.

What was his point then? That more options is a bad thing? Thats what it sounded like to me.

JackieChanIsGOD
12-16-2003, 04:48 PM
Are you saying that the majority of the gaiming population knows who Ralph Baer is?


Nope...

The sentence...
It's..... wrong...
he's either suppose to put something after it... like, ", but only a few new age game publishers and developers." .... or change the wording... maybe like, "For the most part, the gaming population does not know the name of the creator of the video game."

..."knows not" doesn't fit...


:(

^he's also saying that he can't keep track of shit he buys... Who the fuck loses a remote control?
Would he lose his wavebird? is he making fun of the wavebird????
I get the point of saying companies are losing track of what gaming is meant to be, but don't downplay something like DVD playback by bringing up the loss of periferals... that's just childish.

Viper
12-16-2003, 04:48 PM
The point was that Sony and MS are trying to go from Game consoles to other stuff with game consoles in it. (PSX for example) They are getting more expenive because of non-game related add in-on extras.

Also the eye-toy and emotion capture idea. They are the most pathetically gimmicky game related thing ever, worse than Nintendo's R.O.B. and Virtual Boy combined.


EDIT: 'Knows not' is proper English....it just isn't widely used.

Viper
12-16-2003, 04:49 PM
The point was that Sony and MS are trying to go from Game consoles to other stuff with game consoles in it. (PSX for example) They are getting more expenive because of non-game related add in-on extras.

Also the eye-toy and emotion capture idea. They are the most pathetically gimmicky game related thing ever, worse than Nintendo's R.O.B. and Virtual Boy combined.


'Knows Not' is proper English. It just isn't widely used.

JackieChanIsGOD
12-16-2003, 04:51 PM
EDIT: 'Knows not' is proper English....it just isn't widely used.

I know it is... but he used it wrong.
You need something to complete the sentence.

Viper
12-16-2003, 04:55 PM
I know it is... but he used it wrong.
You need something to complete the sentence.
It is a complete sentance....think of it this way. Look at the word 'color' in your sig. Difference in culture and location can make for oddities in text and speech, yet both could be considered correct.


Prince, so he knocked the idea of having to buy a remote for an extra $30.00 That is a damn expensive remote. I guess to make sure you don't lose it.

As for the article being childish and stupid, read some of anti-Nintendo articles posted recently for an example of childish and stupid.

Prince
12-16-2003, 05:35 PM
The point was that Sony and MS are trying to go from Game consoles to other stuff with game consoles in it. (PSX for example) They are getting more expenive because of non-game related add in-on extras.

Everything that the PS2 and XBox charge you for is game-related. They don't make you buy non-game related addons in their console.

PSX is not a main console like PS1/PS2, it's the equivalent of the Panasonic Q. PS3 and PS4 are years off, ideas change and get scrapped (just look at the recent PSX fiasco where they cut a whole bunch of features last minute), none of us knows what will happen in the future.


Prince, so he knocked the idea of having to buy a remote for an extra $30.00 That is a damn expensive remote. I guess to make sure you don't lose it.

My point is you don't have to buy a remote for 30$. It's an optional accessory and a much better solution then just not including DVD playback at all.

C.J.
12-16-2003, 09:11 PM
Grammar Nazi!

:eek:

The Dude
12-16-2003, 09:18 PM
I see were the writer is comming from, One day a computer and a game system will be one, its inevitable

E-40
12-16-2003, 09:27 PM
A man with a watch knows what time it is
A man with two watches is never sure

Think about it.

Viper
12-16-2003, 09:33 PM
A man with a watch knows what time it is
A man with two watches is never sure

Think about it.
A man with 3 watches is trying to sell something.

E-40
12-16-2003, 09:35 PM
^ lol

Notedog
12-16-2003, 09:43 PM
A man with two game systems doesnt know what game to buy?

Suzuki_Fanboy
12-17-2003, 03:02 AM
That guy's arguments were so weak...he kind of dug himself into the ground with all those peripheral arguments, which Prince has explained. All the stuff they add is game-related...

Viper
12-17-2003, 03:15 AM
You guys are still missing the overall point. It is the direction that Sony and MS are taking gaming. Gaming started with gaming in mind, not making toast and proof reading your morning report too.

footchicken
12-17-2003, 03:48 AM
I agree, game sytems should only play games unless the company can add something in without making the price high or the system big(not likely tho).

jonapete2001
12-17-2003, 10:17 AM
I agree, game sytems should only play games unless the company can add something in without making the price high or the system big(not likely tho).

This guy makes no sense. this was just written by a pure fan boy. If nintendo would have included a hard drive and a dvd player he would be praising it. A hard drive and a dvd player in no way affect gaming quality. I have never been playing my xbox and said oh god, because of that damn hard drive i can not play my game. Oh know they eye toy limits the fun i can have with final fantasy. Give me a break. THis arguement could have went like this with ps1 and n64.

PS1 uses Cds man, why do they have to mess with things. They just want to include more levels and super high quality music. That is not pure gaming, n64 carts, now that is gaming. How ubsurd does that sound?

I for one welcome added features that inprove the value of a system. For 2 years the ps2 dvd player was the only one i had. Now i have a gc, a ps2, and an xbox. If you want to bash the other systems do it for reasons like gameplay, not because they cost $50 more and come with a dvd player or hard drive.

Viper
12-17-2003, 12:31 PM
I was hoping more people would understand what he was pointing out but so far no one does and I keep saying ait and none of you are listening. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE CURRENT GENERATION OF CONSOLES BUT THE DIRECTION THE INDUSTRY IS GOING IN.

Suzuki_Fanboy
12-17-2003, 04:27 PM
We all get what he is saying. And we all think he is an idiot (except for a few people). I got his point the whole time, and I disagree. I think that including a hard-drive and an optional DVD player is awesome. Especially since the HDD makes your games better, and you don't have to use the DVD player if you don't want to...the only way it changes gaming is by improving it.

Viper
12-17-2003, 04:38 PM
We all get what he is saying. And we all think he is an idiot (except for a few people). I got his point the whole time, and I disagree. I think that including a hard-drive and an optional DVD player is awesome. Especially since the HDD makes your games better, and you don't have to use the DVD player if you don't want to...the only way it changes gaming is by improving it.
Then why does the majority of the gaming world agree that the best era of gaming was before all the 'extras' came into play.

Suzuki_Fanboy
12-17-2003, 04:44 PM
What does that have to do with anything?

I would say that is true, but that's not because people are putting in hard-drives and DVD players...geez. It's because the games are worse. Nintendo's games included. That was a pretty weak argument.

Prince
12-17-2003, 04:57 PM
I was hoping more people would understand what he was pointing out but so far no one does and I keep saying ait and none of you are listening. IT IS NOT ABOUT THE CURRENT GENERATION OF CONSOLES BUT THE DIRECTION THE INDUSTRY IS GOING IN.

A lot of the article was about this generation. In case you missed it:



So, what does Sony do after dominating two generations of video game consoles? They only make things harder, much to many gamers’ dismays. Sony’s PlayStation 2 introduced the element of playing DVDs, which was fine—the era of VHS was dying and DVDs were taking the media by storm. It’s only sensible for Sony to want to cash in on that market. But they also made it so that one must have bought a DVD remote if they wished to view their movies with ease. The Xbox arrived some years later, and it, too, incorporated the option to play DVDs and CDs. However, Microsoft also took a step further to best Sony and they enabled the Xbox to rip music from CDs. Well, that’s all reasonable, right? I mean, we’d all be doing this stuff on our computers anyway, so why not pay extra for them to be included in a game console, right? …Right?

But Microsoft didn’t stop there, because there’s more you can do this in Swiss army knife of a console. The DVD Movie Playback Kit is only $30, and it "is a quick way to expand the functionality of the best gaming machine around!" (Or so says the official Xbox website.) The Xbox also has a lot of other junk to be bought by consumer whores (as if Microsoft needs the extra money) including a Music Mixer, System link cable, and Xbox Live Starter Kit. Not to be outdone, Sony made an external hard drive for the PS2 (the Xbox’s is built in), Network Adapter, and now they’re coming out with the EyeToy for more gaming involvement.


hard drive and DVD drive don't affect game quality. The games use the superior storage space in DVD's to hold tons of songs and FMV's and hard drive is used for online play, downloadable content/patches, extra things like the Dead or Alive 3 booster disk, ripping and putting your own music in games, and not having to buy multiple memory cards. Nothing they made you pay for in PS2/XBX is useless or unreasonable, it's all to enhance the gaming experience. If this is the direction that Sony and Microsoft are taking gaming then every gamer should happy.


Then why does the majority of the gaming world agree that the best era of gaming was before all the 'extras' came into play.

Nostalgia maybe? I sure as hell don't see how a hard drive and DVD drive can make gaming worse. If you know then feel free to explain.

Rabunis
12-17-2003, 07:12 PM
Well Viper I understand what this guy is getting at. He means to say that gaming doesn't NEED all this extra crud (dvd player etc etc) because all it does is make the unit more pricey when it should be all about the games. And he's also saying that in the future it seems as if things are going to get out of hand in the add-on/ periphial (sp?) department.

Viper
12-17-2003, 07:18 PM
Ladies and gentleman we have a winner. Goku, give this man one of your cookies.


Devs need to spend more time on the game and making it fun and not all the extras that try to mask the piss poor gameplay by making you think it is a great game.

If a game sucks, does it make it any better if it sucked in 5.1 surround sound? Or if you can save said suckage to a HD? Or if you can play this craptacular bastardpiece over the internet?

JackieChanIsGOD
12-17-2003, 07:35 PM
But........ what if the game is good?

TheGreenElf
12-17-2003, 09:46 PM
Viper, I want to thank you for posting that. It makes me feel better knowing I'm not the only one who thought gaming was headed in the wrong direction, and Prince, if he had been praising the Xbox or PS2, you know you would've found his points valid. That was a great read.

footchicken
12-17-2003, 09:50 PM
As viper's sig says, "Great Graphics Do Not a Great Game Make - Yoda" I think thats why games feel worse than before, they are spending too much time on graphics and dont put in the quality gameplay thats needed
By the way, i'm not a f**kin fanboy..., its just, why spend money on shit that i already own like a DVD player.

Viper
12-17-2003, 09:53 PM
But........ what if the game is good?
They are fewer and farther between now than before the 'combo all-in-one garbage disposal game units'.

There is a direct and noticeable change in the gaming industry since these things have come about. Will Halo or GTA 3 get played 10 years down the road like SMB 3 and Super Metroid do? No. They won't.

Games then, were just plain better and they are getting worse due to dev's not giving the same magic and love that they did back then. That is the point of the article.

Prince
12-17-2003, 10:00 PM
No one has given me an example of 5.1/HDD/DVD drive making a game worse yet. I can give you examples of how a barebones system makes games worse. No downloadable content, need to buy multiple memory cards, being stuck with the (somtimes crappy) music the developers give you, compressed audio and video due to small disk size, etc etc

developers have more limitations with a barebones system.

footchicken
12-17-2003, 10:06 PM
ALL THEY SHOULD WORRY ABOUT IS GAME QUALITY, if there's an addon which makes gaming better it should be included. no noisy DVD players *cough xbox cough*

Silent Warrior
12-17-2003, 10:16 PM
thats was an amazing article. this guy hit the nail on the head. truly awsome. he's so right too.. if i wanted to play dvd's, id use my dvd player. if wanted to play games using a hard drive, id use my computer. personaly i dont like the games that are out now and the useless *EXTRAS* for consoles. pretty lame to me. what happend to the games that had a meaning? i seen that eyetoy at bestbuy. i about laughed. that thing is useless crap. i even knew who Ralph Baer was. even tho the Magnavox Odyssey came out before i was born. i played that when i was like 3 or so. i had so much fun playing that. i wish i had that today. cause i would still play it.

Viper
12-17-2003, 10:21 PM
No one has given me an example of 5.1/HDD/DVD drive making a game worse yet. I can give you examples of how a barebones system makes games worse. No downloadable content, need to buy multiple memory cards, being stuck with the (somtimes crappy) music the developers give you, compressed audio and video due to small disk size, etc etc

developers have more limitations with a barebones system.
Prince, you are still thiking in this generation. You want a barebones system that kicks the snot out both the xbox and ps2? SNES. Inferior in every sense of hardware. Did it use 5.1 sound? No.....Did it use a HD? No. Did it use eye extapolation and motion sensoring? No.

What did it use. A Developer that cared about the gameplay and a console manufacturer who cared more for the simplistic nature of a video game than revenue.

Suzuki_Fanboy
12-18-2003, 01:17 AM
So you're saying that instead of progressing, the industry should return to the past? No awesome graphics, fast processors, hard-drives, etc? Expensive cartridges? I don't get why people complain about the industry's progression. I think it's a good thing. If I want to play an old game, I'll go hook up my NES and play it. But I don't always like that.

EDIT: And like Prince said, all that stuff helps games.

pac4life
12-18-2003, 01:32 AM
wow, well, what was that kid who said footchiken was a fanboy, hes not a fanboy, i happen to kno footchicken, f*ck, me an him like all systems, im not a fan boy if i didnt get a cube 4 xmas, id probly jus own a ps2 or xbox cus of waht they had to offer, i really didnt care if ps2 or gamecube ahd 10 a++ titles an xbox had 5, i was bout waht the system had 2 offer. i personalyl started out on nintendo like a lot...an probly most of u on this forum have, but im not fan boy any more, addons to systems do matter, speically to casual gamers, why else did nintendo rule the 16 bit era...they were like the only ones who had speciall offers (eg "triple play" which nintendo gave away shit wit theyre 3 systems.) sega had aweosme shit, sega genesis was then what gc or xbox is now, but they didnt have any special offers or shit. its funny how im tlakin bout nothin that has to do wit vipers excellent post, or the basic topic of this forum, its jus that, that kid pissed me off about fan boyism. now im gonna play some CS cus it RULES.

TheGreenElf
12-18-2003, 03:15 AM
As long as my console can play games, I'm happy. I've got a DVD player that is much better quality than any Xbox (and especially PS2) dvd player. It was also a lot less than the difference in prices of Gamecube and Xbox. BTW, Suzuki, I don't think true gamers would mind the developers focusing less on hard drives, processors, graphics, and other technical specs, if they put the energy saved from all that crap into making gameplay better.

=NukeBlaze=
12-19-2003, 04:22 AM
There have already been numerious editorals that at the current rate, the home console with be totally incorperated into designer PCs by the next, next generation.

At the current rate, they indeed will. This poses a major problem if a good chunk of the world is runnig on diffrent , non x-96 compliant hardware. In terms of features, yes it is good because now parnet wll buy because teh consoles can not do flips with your snap your fingers.

The reson why the "Golden Age of Gamming" is gone is bcause of competition. Games now have to be made as fast as possible to keep up with the competition. Few games, anymore, are made to be good games rather than a quick profit for the comapnies. Vary rarly do people get together to create the best content to thier own extentent than all of the creators racing for the company set "deadline". This is why the best games take the longest to poduce..And are the biggest risks if they flop. If you invest 25$ million+ into a game and get a 10$ million return, why spend the "Big bucks"? Gamming is too much bussiness and marketing anymore. We need the ddevelopers of yesterdays comming up with ideas while they are eating Coco-puffs in thier PJs, becuase that is where the best ideas come from - Inspiration and the refinment of ideas over a long time.

Suzuki_Fanboy
12-19-2003, 04:27 AM
BTW, Suzuki, I don't think true gamers would mind the developers focusing less on hard drives, processors, graphics, and other technical specs, if they put the energy saved from all that crap into making gameplay better.

So you're saying I'm not a true gamer, because technical specs, and especially HDD's, which save me money AND make gameplay better, are important to me? Thanks. Processors? Make games run smoother, thus creating a better experience. Technical specs? Same thing. So, all those things do make gameplay better. That's why they're there. But I'm not a true gamer, because I enjoy having powerful consoles. Sweet.

dork
12-19-2003, 05:06 AM
i think the dood's trying to say that true console gaming is dying. Sony and MS will eventually develop home virtual reality units (or something) :P

peasantlover
12-19-2003, 06:32 AM
\
The reson why the "Golden Age of Gamming" is gone is bcause of competition. Games now have to be made as fast as possible to keep up with the competition. Few games, anymore, are made to be good games rather than a quick profit for the comapnies. Vary rarly do people get together to create the best content to thier own extentent than all of the creators racing for the company set "deadline". This is why the best games take the longest to poduce..And are the biggest risks if they flop. If you invest 25$ million+ into a game and get a 10$ million return, why spend the "Big bucks"? Gamming is too much bussiness and marketing anymore. We need the ddevelopers of yesterdays comming up with ideas while they are eating Coco-puffs in thier PJs, becuase that is where the best ideas come from - Inspiration and the refinment of ideas over a long time.[/QUOTE]

eh, competition is not that cause. There was NEVER a time when a company would want to invest 25 mil into a agame and get a 10 mil return, competition or no (and guess what: the reason sony did do it was because of competition)... competition has been generally good for gaming...

there are other causes, not competition... thats all Im saying..

Viper
12-19-2003, 01:59 PM
What Paladin is saying is that back then games didn't even cost 25 mil to make...more like 250,000 so they were easy to get profit back so there was much less risk involved. Today with all these extras and graphic graziness, it skyrockets the cost to develop a decent game.

japand00d
12-19-2003, 08:19 PM
That idea about the game recognizing facial expressions is stupid. If you've ever paid attention to someone's face while they're playing a game, most of the time it just looks expressionless or it looks like they're really absorbed into the game, but that's about it.

JackieChanIsGOD
12-19-2003, 08:42 PM
I still don't like the article, regardless of what it's talking about...
Like, i've pretty much heard the argument before... and this is just a reiteration... poorly done, in my eyes.

Suzuki_Fanboy
12-20-2003, 05:42 AM
I don't think that Viper realizes that everyone understood his basic point. It's just that...most of us disagree with him. He did a very, very poor job...in my opinion, that is.

Geez...I've read too much PA. I use italics like a mofo' now.

Wario101
12-22-2003, 10:35 PM
Suzuki Fanboy shut the hell up Yeah viper I kinda agree with you but to damn lazy to type alot of crap. I think developer's are putting more on graphics than on gameplay IMO.