Sony undecided of PS3 having hard disk

[lilkoy123]

Sony Undecided on Hard Disk
Head of technology unsure if hard disk will be included as standard.
by IGN Staff

June 1, 2005 - Sony has been somewhat vague on the inclusion of a hard disk with the PlayStation 3. The system's specifications reveal a slot for a detachable hard disk unit, but there's still not been any talk of a hard disk being included with the system from the start.

It seems that we're going to have to wait for confirmation. In an interview featured in the latest issue of Famitsu, Sony Computer Entertainment chief technical officer Masayuki Chatani, when asked if a hard disk will be included with the system from the start, replies "It has yet to be decided."

Chatani also reveals Sony's reasoning for going with a removable hard disk setup. The company believes that people will want to both upgrade to higher capacity drives in the future and carry their hard disks with them to attach to other PS3 units.

Moving away from the hard disk, Chatani is asked to comment a little on the system's controversial controller. "I don't think there will be any fundamental changes," he answers in response to a question on the possibility of changes to the controller's design, "but it's a prototype, so there could be some small adjustments."

Chatani also gives some hints into PS3 network gaming. Internet-based communication functionality will be a big part of the PS3, Chatani reveals. He belives it important to come up with communication tools for all ages.

Finally, those looking forward to more news on the PS3 should turn to the PSP for an estimated schedule. Sony debuted the portable system at E3, shared first fully playable games at the Tokyo Game Show, then launched in Japan on 12/12. Chatani reveals that the PS3 is set for Japanese release in Spring, so we can expect, to a certain level, a similar flow. This seems to suggest playable PS3 units at the September Tokyo Game Show.

And we can, hopefully, expect confirmation on the inclusion of a hard drive by around the same time.
Source (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/621/621155p1.html)
Bad thing or good thing?

[Domination]

Let's just say the news get more exciting everyday. :) I really need a dancing icon. Wait.... http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/music049.gif

Much better.

[Coded-Dude]

I will get one regardless..... :|

I will need/want to stream stuff to my PSP, while I'm out and about! :wink:

[FerrianX]

IGN has a talent for stating the obvious... a key example being what was written above.

I'd personally prefer to have an HDD within the system, but if it doesn't then no big loss for me.

Also Sony just might release the system in Japan with no HDD included, but come Amercian / European release time, one could very well be included. There are so many ways to play with the HDD feature that we won't be able to tell until Sony either states it officially or the system is actually launched.

With respect to the controller comment... until I hold one in my own hands... I'm opposed to what they showed us at E3.

[Reality Bandit]

Actually... his comment on the controller is what got me excited. I personally really like the new design...

And backlights on the buttons (though extremely unnecessary) would be cool :P . Course that is neither here nor there.

Anyways, I really hope the include the hard drive..

[Grandia]

The controller...What is Sony thinking? I mean, who could actually think this controller:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/ImagePs305.jpg

will be anywhere as good as the Dual Shock 2? Apart from looking horrific, and looking incredibly uncomfortable, why would Sony change a good thing? I mean, lots of people like the DS2. If you want to change the DS2 for the better, making it into this ugly thing isn't they way to do that. (Triggers + Swapping the DPad and Left Analog Stick)

If Sony releases the PS3 with this controller, I swear, I will not get the PS3. No matter if it has every game I want, I would rather get the Xbox360. (Even though nothing really interests me) I mean, if anything, they made a good looking, and extremely comfortable controller. I'll boycott ya' Sony! (I did it with Microsoft, and then they released the great Controller S.)

And how does Sony expect to rival Xbox Live without a HDD?

:evil: I'm still pissed off about the controller...

[Fats]

You're only looking at a picture. I mean, I don't really like the look of it either, but if it feels good in my hands then I'm sold.

[TidusX]

You're only looking at a picture. I mean, I don't really like the look of it either, but if it feels good in my hands then I'm sold.

Amen, I am not saying anything until I have held it in my hands. And about the HDD it would be smart for Sony to include at least a 10 gig HDD so that developers will at least have some usage for it thus making more games using the HDD. Dont do the same mistake from the PS2, Sony.

[rpgamer_2k5]

If you want to change the DS2 for the better, making it into this ugly thing isn't they way to do that. (Triggers + Swapping the DPad and Left Analog Stick)

No No No. :twisted:

DPad must NOT be swapped with the Left Analog stick. It is a very stupid idea from Microsoft and yes, I do have the Xbox so I'm aware of it. DS3 needs to maintain its symmetrical design.

[Kala]

A few things to clear up first:

1) That is STILL a conceptual design and has not yet been completed

2) There is still unconfirmed information that you can use your DS2 controllers on the PS3

3) You can always use the DS3 controllers...If sony doesn't make a DS3 on launch...they will soon after, if not. Then another company can cash in by making a "DS3" like controller

[xbdestroya]

Amen, I am not saying anything until I have held it in my hands. And about the HDD it would be smart for Sony to include at least a 10 gig HDD so that developers will at least have some usage for it thus making more games using the HDD. Dont do the same mistake from the PS2, Sony.

Well if you're going to incude a 10 Gig hard drive you might as well include a 40 Gig hard drive... the costs to maufacture aren't far apart. You have to remember that it's the actual physical, mechanical components that make hard drives an expensive component to include in a console.

[makeitlookreal]

One thing I really, really want on the PS3 is a Tivo like function. I really want to be able to record TV on my PS3!

I think that at least a minimal HD Drive should be included with the PS3 (for game saves, music, pictures, etc), but that you should also be allowed to upgrade for TIVO like functions.

[Viper]

I wouldn't doubt a form of hard drive is included. Even Nintendo tossed the idea around for quite some time.


As for the PS3 controller, one of our guys, SHOCK, sat in at a THQ roundtable with a few members of the WWE, Stacy Kiebler, Edge and John Cena at E3. He asked them all if they gamed and John Cena said he played PS2 because he like the controller the best. SHOCK said, "Have you seen the new PS3 controller yet?" John Cena shook his head in disgust, put his hand on his forehead and said, "Yeah, they fucked it all up".

[LiquidEagle]

Well in regards to the hard-drive, it is important for Sony to include it when they ship the system. That means it's standard, and every developer can support it without worring about who they'll be excluding or a loss of audience/patrons. Just look at the Hard Drive for PS2. It never got off its feet because it was a completely optional thing that came in too late. For the Hard-Drive size, I don't see why Sony would go down from 40 in the PS2's HDD unit to 10 in the PS3, so I'd expect a 40 GB hard-drive...


In regards to the controller, quit whining. Sony invented what is pretty universally the best controller in the world, but you're telling them where they went wrong? Obviously, if they ditched the DS2 design, they found something better. You can check out my locked topic about its similarity to the ultra-comfy Alps Interactive controller that was for PSOne. It might be at the bottom of the first page or the top of the second page. The look of a controller may not indicate a thing about the feel of it too. So, saying the controller looks like a boomerang doesn't say anything about its ability as a controller to be comfortable and convenient. If you're that self-conscious that you wouldn't want somebody to look in your room and see a boomerang-shaped controller lying around, then you probably don't deserve to play the PS3 :lol:

[Viper]

It might be at the bottom of the first page or the top of the second page. The look of a controller may not indicate a thing about the feel of it too. So, saying the controller looks like a boomerang doesn't say anything about its ability as a controller to be comfortable and convenient. If you're that self-conscious that you wouldn't want somebody to look in your room and see a boomerang-shaped controller lying around, then you probably don't deserve to play the PS3 :lol:If only the press and many casual gamers could see the same regarding the GC controller.

[Grandia]

If you want to change the DS2 for the better, making it into this ugly thing isn't they way to do that. (Triggers + Swapping the DPad and Left Analog Stick)

No No No. :twisted:

DPad must NOT be swapped with the Left Analog stick. It is a very stupid idea from Microsoft and yes, I do have the Xbox so I'm aware of it. DS3 needs to maintain its symmetrical design.
By swapping the DPad with the Left Analog stick, it allows the controller to be able to play a wide variety of games more efficiently. Playing FPS' with the DS2 is nowhere as good/comfortable/easy as with the Controller S. Why? Because, (This is ignoring the fact that the DS2's Analog Sticks are not as good as the Controller S' or Gamecube's, or the fact that it doesn't have triggers.) of the placement of the sticks and DPad.


A few things to clear up first:

1) That is STILL a conceptual design and has not yet been completed

2) There is still unconfirmed information that you can use your DS2 controllers on the PS3

3) You can always use the DS3 controllers...If sony doesn't make a DS3 on launch...they will soon after, if not. Then another company can cash in by making a "DS3" like controller
I know that this is is a conceptual design, but Chatani just stated that he doesn't see any major changes in the near future.

The thing htat annoys me is, Sony has yet to get any positive feedback from the press/people in general about the controller, yet they don't think they're going to be changing it?

[JetBlackRX89]

Enough about the controller. It's fugly. We all know. That's why we have about 10 topics on this already. Here's an idea: don't look at the controller and watch your game instead!

I am a little happy to hear they are still considering a HDD to be packaged along with the console. I'd be happier if it was 100% confirmed though. Still, it's a relief to hear they didn't throw the idea out already.
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=298017
That's a 160GB harddrive for less than $30. I don't know if it's a really cruddy one or what, but I wouldn't mind paying an extra $30 to get all the HDD space I could ever need with my PS3.

BTW, if you click the link I posted, the HDD might show up as $120. When I posted this, there were three $30 rebates. I don't know how they managed to do this, but hopefully Sony can dish out some harddrives that cheap too.

[xbdestroya]

The only thing that CompUSA drive proves is that whoever needs a new drive needs to upgrade right now. :wink:

You can't take prices after rebate though to be indicative of the actual cost of manufacture. This looks to me to be a move to get rid of inventory.

[rpgamer_2k5]

[quote=Grandia]...
By swapping the DPad with the Left Analog stick, it allows the controller to be able to play a wide variety of games more efficiently. Playing FPS' with the DS2 is nowhere as good/comfortable/easy as with the Controller S. Why? Because, (This is ignoring the fact that the DS2's Analog Sticks are not as good as the Controller S' or Gamecube's, or the fact that it doesn't have triggers.) of the placement of the sticks and DPad.

That is really an opinion. The reason why the DS doesn't seem adaptable to FPS is because there are hardly any FPS on PS2. The Xbox had Halo and many got adjusted to it. A Keyboard and mouse is FAR better than any controller. Right now I'm holding the DS and I feel that triggers and better analog sticks. There is no need to switch the directional pad with the left analog stick, symmetry should be maintained.

[Grandia]

[quote=Grandia]...
By swapping the DPad with the Left Analog stick, it allows the controller to be able to play a wide variety of games more efficiently. Playing FPS' with the DS2 is nowhere as good/comfortable/easy as with the Controller S. Why? Because, (This is ignoring the fact that the DS2's Analog Sticks are not as good as the Controller S' or Gamecube's, or the fact that it doesn't have triggers.) of the placement of the sticks and DPad.

That is really an opinion. The reason why the DS doesn't seem adaptable to FPS is because there are hardly any FPS on PS2. The Xbox had Halo and many got adjusted to it. A Keyboard and mouse is FAR better than any controller. Right now I'm holding the DS and I feel that triggers and better analog sticks. There is no need to switch the directional pad with the left analog stick, symmetry should be maintained.
I'm just speaking of what I think could make it better.
I'd take the DS2 over the Banana...

[amod20002004]

I do hope that Sony will still suport Dual shock 2. New controler looks strange to me. and i don't think
that it will be a wise idea to introduce this type of controller in market, agian it's my personal
opinion. i will really like to play old format dual shock 2 type controller on ps3.

[imported_The_One]

[quote=Grandia]...
By swapping the DPad with the Left Analog stick, it allows the controller to be able to play a wide variety of games more efficiently. Playing FPS' with the DS2 is nowhere as good/comfortable/easy as with the Controller S. Why? Because, (This is ignoring the fact that the DS2's Analog Sticks are not as good as the Controller S' or Gamecube's, or the fact that it doesn't have triggers.) of the placement of the sticks and DPad.

That is really an opinion. The reason why the DS doesn't seem adaptable to FPS is because there are hardly any FPS on PS2. The Xbox had Halo and many got adjusted to it. A Keyboard and mouse is FAR better than any controller. Right now I'm holding the DS and I feel that triggers and better analog sticks. There is no need to switch the directional pad with the left analog stick, symmetry should be maintained.
I'm just speaking of what I think could make it better.
I'd take the DS2 over the Banana... This is coming from a Xbox fanboy who's probably been playing Halo with the Controller S for ages by now :roll:.

The truth is, the majority of gamers prefer the DS2 over the Controller S and it wouldn't be wise for Sony to change it just because a "few" gamers want something.

The only problem with the DS controllers are the grip, but personally, only my friends whine and complain about it, I have no problem gripping it... I wonder why :roll:.

[Z]

The HDD: of course every gamer wants an HDD. The thing is, the manufacturer is the one that doesn’t want one. You see, it will cost too much to include with the standard box. I do not see any problem getting one as an add-on. MS suffered much due to the fact they bundled an HDD with their box. Even though it was a mere 8G, it still hurt them. Sony did the correct move that is done with any new peripheral and that is making it as an add-on. They made this with their 40G HDD and EyeToy. Add-ons do not cost as much for a manufacturer and it gives them control in case the thing fails or succeeded. They can up or lower production dependently. That is why I do not think X2 nor PS3 will have a built in HDD out of the box. But why is this even a topic of discussion? Both WILL support HDD, so buy one. It is as simple as that. Another point is not everybody will be content with a standard HDD. Some want an exceptionally bigger capacity, thus they feel it is a waist to pay for a standard one when they will immediately replace it before even turning on the machine. Those who do no want an HDD will feel the same. Nobody wants to pay for something they wouldn’t or do not want to use.


The Controller: no offence, put all this bitching about the new controller reminds me of my great great aunty Heather. Like many grumpy old folks, they keep on complaining how things aren’t as they used to be. Well, I don’t know about you, but I prefer a bullet-train of a smelly slow Chu Chu any day. I say that because MOST of the complaints are based on simply refuting ANYTHING new.

The second point is this controller is made by the creators of the DS themselves. I don’t think anybody knows more about controllers than they do. This is simply proven by comparing the DS with every other controller in existence. Everybody copies the leader. MS and Ninty are making their new consoles stand vertically. MS is making a DS mock up with their new controller. MS was even forced to change their ‘official’ controller and quietly replace it with the S type which obviously S stands for “get the freakin’ huge thing smaller that a human hand can actually ‘hold’ it!!”
Sony didn’t change the DS with PS2’s arrival. Because they wouldn’t mess something up with a lesser design. No Sony has gotten something new. The DS makers have come up with the next step in controller design. I do not see a reason to complain. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised with it. I want an ‘all new’ system for an all new generation.
And if you closely look at it, you can tell it is from the DS family- sharing the same DNA as Sony always likes to say. Look at it again. It IS the DS. The only difference is that it MAY not have the bumps under the wings.
Personally, Sony taught me for years to trust them. I certainly admire Sony Style and their Design Excellence. I remember how ‘different’ the original PSOne controller looked to me. I was enjoying my 3DO and Genesis. I also remember how the adjusted new DS controller seemed. Now, people are having the same feeling of ‘different’. But ‘different’ doesn’t necessarily mean worse. I love change and embrace new opportunity. I love the design and it certainly makes you feel distinct and futuristic. If I want tradition, I would go to a museum.

Finally, for those who don’t want it, simply get a connector and use what ever controller you want from any console.
And for the guy who is ‘threatening’ not to get a PS3 because of the new designed controller and instead going with X2, do you really think Sony even cares? Go ahead, play you Tekken, DMC, GT, AC, God of War, Killzone and others on your little X2. the rest of the world will be far to immersed in their next level of entertainment to notice you.

[Red_Eyes]

The controller...What is Sony thinking? I mean, who could actually think this controller:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/de/ImagePs305.jpg

will be anywhere as good as the Dual Shock 2? Apart from looking horrific, and looking incredibly uncomfortable, why would Sony change a good thing? I mean, lots of people like the DS2. If you want to change the DS2 for the better, making it into this ugly thing isn't they way to do that. (Triggers + Swapping the DPad and Left Analog Stick)

If Sony releases the PS3 with this controller, I swear, I will not get the PS3. No matter if it has every game I want, I would rather get the Xbox360. (Even though nothing really interests me) I mean, if anything, they made a good looking, and extremely comfortable controller. I'll boycott ya' Sony! (I did it with Microsoft, and then they released the great Controller S.)

And how does Sony expect to rival Xbox Live without a HDD?

:evil: I'm still pissed off about the controller...

Actually, from the looks of it, I think it will be very comfortable to hold. Just hold out your hand to that image and pretend to hold it, in that form. Notice how comfortable it is. LOL.

[ireland24]

Im thinking that some 3rd party company will release an adapter to connect the DS2 to the PS3 8) Id buy it!

[kraken]

Im thinking that some 3rd party company will release an adapter to connect the DS2 to the PS3 8) Id buy it!

There is already one- USB to DS2 adapter and I’m using it to play ps games on my PC with emulator. I am sure that it will work on PS3 USB as well.

[O.D.S]

heres some news on the HDD situation:


According to a report cropping up in Japanese gaming weekly Famitsu, the hard drive element of the PlayStation 3 might not be included with the console as standard: shock news, as this feature was heavily touted during E3.

i know this isnt major "concrete" news but at least it tells us they are actually working and not just swimming in their pools of money 8)

[Lord Darkblade]

The DS2 is far superior to the S for playing FPSs, at least in my opinion, moving the pad unbalances the controller giving you less support. Triggers are unnecessary in a system with analog shoulder buttons.

[jags71]

http://www.vidgames.com/ps/hardware/alpspad.jpg

I had this controller for the playstation 1. It was by far the most comfortable peice of hardware I have ever touched. I was also able to find a review of it online. The reviewer stated, "Hands down the best feel of any controller out there! Coolest design, too! Super smooth directional pad and a great rubber grip makes it a breeze to use. If you have great hands, look no further, this controller is for you. Perfect? Not quite, the directional pad is so smooth it is sometimes a bit tricky to pull off diagonals. Oh well, practice makes perfect."

http://www.vidgames.com/ps/hardware/alpspad.html

[xbdestroya]

I had this controller for the playstation 1. It was by far the most comfortable peice of hardware I have ever touched. I was also able to find a review of it online. The reviewer stated, "Hands down the best feel of any controller out there! Coolest design, too! Super smooth directional pad and a great rubber grip makes it a breeze to use. If you have great hands, look no further, this controller is for you. Perfect? Not quite, the directional pad is so smooth it is sometimes a bit tricky to pull off diagonals. Oh well, practice makes perfect."


Well jags, firstly welcome to the forum, and secondly thanks for that info! 8)

I personally think the controller looks workable, and as long as it's not too big, I'd definitely be willing to give it a shot.

[haggisns]

I have a few suggestions, thoughts regarding the harddrive debate.

Since the console comes with USB 2.0 support, SONY could allow
any USB external harddrive to act as the harddrive for the unit.

There are some very sexy looking external harddrives out there and it would'nt be are to find one that would sit perfectly beside the PS3 in a living room setting and not look good.

Sony has opened the the doors by including SD Cards and CompacFlash,
so why not this?

I will go out on a limb that external harddrives will work with the PS3 and even if SONY wanted to stop developers from using it, they could'nt, at least technically.

Which means that we won't be stuck having to by expensive branded SONY Internal drives for the PS3.

USB 2.0 is plenty fast enough.

If next gen gaming is to include: new models, new weapons, new maps, new cut scenes, music, view, MMORPGs: then SONY has got an answer.

The reason the PS2 harddrive failed to gain momentum won't be the reason this time around.

Also: on the box of every PS2 game is a icon saying if it needs a Memory controller card. Users readily buy these for saving games, since these cards are cheap they could hold game level data and other things.


Also games could come bundled with a SD Card, for the game:
are SD Cards fast enough for the read/write functions of a video game?
would 512 megs be enough for a MMORPH game?

[martel]

I had this controller for the playstation 1. It was by far the most comfortable peice of hardware I have ever touched. I was also able to find a review of it online. The reviewer stated, "Hands down the best feel of any controller out there! Coolest design, too! Super smooth directional pad and a great rubber grip makes it a breeze to use. If you have great hands, look no further, this controller is for you. Perfect? Not quite, the directional pad is so smooth it is sometimes a bit tricky to pull off diagonals. Oh well, practice makes perfect."

http://www.vidgames.com/ps/hardware/alpspad.html

I actually remember that controller from years ago, some PS mag had adverts with them for sale.

I have no opinion on the controller thus far. As I've said before, I am surprised they've changed it, but only because the old one was so good. The one thing I disliked about the DS was the length of the handles, maybe they where designed with either children or the smaller hands of Japanese adults in mind. I had a Saitek pad (which stopped working, as did my 8MB card for my PS1, and my unofficial multitap for my PS2 doesn't work well, hmmm, I've had some bad third party peripheral experiences) which has a very similiar design to the original PS pad, but with longer handles, and it was probably the most comfortable pad I've ever used.

As for the hard drive and the whole dev support issue, when I got my PS2 it didn't come with a memory card, I've noticed quite a few devs support them..... Support will simply come down to whether or not devs think there will be sufficient call for HD features, same as online, consoles don't come with a BB connection (or even a net adapter in original PS2) and devs still support online features. Devs just need a large enough support base, as such I'd imagine some devs will wait a year or two before supporting HD, to see if the user base is there. Big dif between HDs, net play etc, and system upgrades are that a game designed to be used with two cells and 2GB or ram won't work on a PS3, a game designed to utilise a HD will simply be somewhat restricted when used with a non-HD equiped machine, but it will still run, so it won't alienate players who lack a HD.

[Stelio]

I just thought of a GR8 IDEA :idea:

I think what SONY should also include in the Dual Shock 3...is a MIC.

Or at least they should offer one for those who interested. A DS 3.5, if you will.

Another update to the headset should also be provided as a wireless solution as well.

I would honestly hope that each controller came with a mic included. That would be awesome!

I always come up with something good :)

[n1n9tean]

we would still have to have a headset on to hear peoples responses to what we say into the controller mic anyway so it may as well just be a wireless headset. Unless of course there was a speaker on the controller or responses came through the Tele's speakers along with all of the games audio-- two awful soloutions IMO...

[Stelio]

we would still have to have a headset on to hear peoples responses to what we say into the controller mic anyway so it may as well just be a wireless headset. Unless of course there was a speaker on the controller or responses came through the Tele's speakers along with all of the games audio-- two awful soloutions IMO...

Not quite true. Allow me to explain...

It would be possible for your system to recognize whether you have a wireless headset connected via bluetooth. If there is none then you would still be able to use the mic on the controller. In that case you would hear the other people talking to you through either you tv or stereo speakers. The other reason for this would be the video conferencing, unless the new eyetoy has a built in mic.

Wouldnt it be cool to have wireless hotpots in your house that are connected to you ps3 (re-chargeable of course) allowing you to continue to talk to those you are conferencing with if you wanted to go to the kitchen to make a sandwich or make a pitstop in the bathroom for a number 2? :lol: In which case you would have the option to turn them on or off.
Of course, the wireless headset just would add another element the mix of "gaming". I think that if they were to release 7 blutooth controllers for connectivity on one system then they should do the same with Wireless Headsets (7 at once).

The point is, there should still be an option for a mic in the controllers. They are inexspensive. Unless of course, costs are already too high to consider such a thing.

[martel]

Wasn't there talk of the X-Box pad having a port where you could plug in a headset, so it'd use the batteries in the pad, seems like the best idea to me.

[n1n9tean]

we would still have to have a headset on to hear peoples responses to what we say into the controller mic anyway so it may as well just be a wireless headset. Unless of course there was a speaker on the controller or responses came through the Tele's speakers along with all of the games audio-- two awful soloutions IMO...

Not quite true. Allow me to explain...

It would be possible for your system to recognize whether you have a wireless headset connected via bluetooth. If there is none then you would still be able to use the mic on the controller. In that case you would hear the other people talking to you through either you tv or stereo speakers. The other reason for this would be the video conferencing, unless the new eyetoy has a built in mic.

Wouldnt it be cool to have wireless hotpots in your house that are connected to you ps3 (re-chargeable of course) allowing you to continue to talk to those you are conferencing with if you wanted to go to the kitchen to make a sandwich or make a pitstop in the bathroom for a number 2? :lol: In which case you would have the option to turn them on or off.
Of course, the wireless headset just would add another element the mix of "gaming". I think that if they were to release 7 blutooth controllers for connectivity on one system then they should do the same with Wireless Headsets (7 at once).

The point is, there should still be an option for a mic in the controllers. They are inexspensive. Unless of course, costs are already too high to consider such a thing.

yea I laid out both possibilites in my post above. A rephrasing of what I said>>

1> you would talk to the controller and hear response through sepearate headphones (which wouldnt make sense because if your wearing a headphone to hear you may as well have a MIC attached to it.)

2> you talk to the controller and peoples responses are heard all mashed up along with the game audio coming from your T.V. (I couldnt imagine that would work too well though unless you have a nice home theater system with multiple speakers and not everyone has that).

But the best soloution would be a wireless headset or like martel said use something like the Xbox360's setup and just plug a short wired headset into your controller through like a stereo mini input or something.

[Domination]

IGN has a talent for stating the obvious... a key example being what was written above.

I'd personally prefer to have an HDD within the system, but if it doesn't then no big loss for me.

Also Sony just might release the system in Japan with no HDD included, but come Amercian / European release time, one could very well be included. There are so many ways to play with the HDD feature that we won't be able to tell until Sony either states it officially or the system is actually launched.

With respect to the controller comment... until I hold one in my own hands... I'm opposed to what they showed us at E3.

This is VERY true. The BB navigator for the PS2 is a good example. It was only launched in Japan while we across seas only got a simple HDD. So yes, I believe this solution is more than possible, if not completely, plausible for a flexible launch.


will be anywhere as good as the Dual Shock 2? Apart from looking horrific, and looking incredibly uncomfortable, why would Sony change a good thing? I mean, lots of people like the DS2. If you want to change the DS2 for the better, making it into this ugly thing isn't they way to do that. (Triggers + Swapping the DPad and Left Analog Stick)

If Sony releases the PS3 with this controller, I swear, I will not get the PS3. No matter if it has every game I want, I would rather get the Xbox360. (Even though nothing really interests me) I mean, if anything, they made a good looking, and extremely comfortable controller. I'll boycott ya' Sony! (I did it with Microsoft, and then they released the great Controller S.)

And how does Sony expect to rival Xbox Live without a HDD?

I'm still pissed off about the controller...

LOL! Who do you think you're fooling here? All you've done was describe the exact design of the Xbox 360 controller. Are you implying something we don't know? If so, why don't you just get yourself a 360 controller, that way both sides are satisfied. :wink:

Also, there is not one instant where you can recall Sony copying any part of Microsoft's Duke controller design; yet it worked out perfectly for the consumer. But I would be lying if I said the same for Microsoft - esspecially with thier latest design for the 360. It might as well be a Dual Shock in a different color. It's obvious Microsoft must have seen some greatness in Sony's design from the begining for them to use such a design.

To add to that, you haven't even held this controller? You're basing your judgement off looks and looks alone. This design they are getting ready to use doesn't really differ much at all from the original PlayStation controller or the Dual Shock. From what I see is a slight improvement in which I didn't really care for with the last controller. And judging by some of the sources we are getting from members of this board, the controller, in which Sony's design kinda resembles, is said to be extremely comfortable. Infact, I am looking at rating of this controller and they are extremely empressive.

Design: 9.5
It looks as though they threw every preconceived design of a normal controller out the window and started from scratch. What they ended up with is a little piece of brilliance.

Quality: 9.5
This is a solid controller that's manufactured very well.

Comfort: 10
There has never been a controller that even comes close to the comfort of the Alps Interactive.

Diversity/Playability: 7.5
Some games may benefit from analog control, or special functions, but anything the standard Sony gamepad can do, the Alps Interactive can do better.
(Note: that Sony's controller has analog functionality)

Overall: 9.5
With the wave of dual analog controllers that will hit soon, this may not be your best choice for a new controller. However, as far as digital controllers go, the Alps Interactive gamepad is one of the best on the market.

Source (http://www.game-assault.com/reviews/alpsreview.shtml)

Now, if Mirosoft's controller nears very close to Sony's Dual Shock, yet Sony's new Dual Shock controller nears very close to this Alps Interactive Controller, which is said to be more comfortable than the Dual Shock, what can you gather or hypothesize of this "banana" design that Sony is using? That's right. The controller is also a prototype that Sony will SLIGHTLY improve in richness. Therefore, it can only get better. So while many are laughing at its banana like design, the controller seems ready to crush the recent Dual Shock's design, and THAT'S what's gonna to matter to the consumer.

[Grandia]

This is coming from a Xbox fanboy who's probably been playing Halo with the Controller S for ages by now :roll:.

The truth is, the majority of gamers prefer the DS2 over the Controller S and it wouldn't be wise for Sony to change it just because a "few" gamers want something.

The only problem with the DS controllers are the grip, but personally, only my friends whine and complain about it, I have no problem gripping it... I wonder why :roll:.
I don't own an Xbox. (I did, but I sold it.)

Having triggers allow developers to create games that are not possible on the DS2, that's all I'm saying. For FPS games, Flight games, Racing games, etc. etc. etc. having triggers are very useful, much more than buttons.


The HDD: of course every gamer wants an HDD. The thing is, the manufacturer is the one that doesn’t want one. You see, it will cost too much to include with the standard box. I do not see any problem getting one as an add-on. MS suffered much due to the fact they bundled an HDD with their box. Even though it was a mere 8G, it still hurt them. Sony did the correct move that is done with any new peripheral and that is making it as an add-on. They made this with their 40G HDD and EyeToy. Add-ons do not cost as much for a manufacturer and it gives them control in case the thing fails or succeeded. They can up or lower production dependently. That is why I do not think X2 nor PS3 will have a built in HDD out of the box. But why is this even a topic of discussion? Both WILL support HDD, so buy one. It is as simple as that. Another point is not everybody will be content with a standard HDD. Some want an exceptionally bigger capacity, thus they feel it is a waist to pay for a standard one when they will immediately replace it before even turning on the machine. Those who do no want an HDD will feel the same. Nobody wants to pay for something they wouldn’t or do not want to use.
Microsoft has already stated that the HDD in the X360 is standard.



Finally, for those who don’t want it, simply get a connector and use what ever controller you want from any console.
And for the guy who is ‘threatening’ not to get a PS3 because of the new designed controller and instead going with X2, do you really think Sony even cares? Go ahead, play you Tekken, DMC, GT, AC, God of War, Killzone and others on your little X2. the rest of the world will be far to immersed in their next level of entertainment to notice you.
Am I saying that Sony should care? I know that one person not getting a PS3 because of the controller will have little affect on it. But trust me, I am not the only person who is thinking about not getting a PS3 because of the controller. Go to other forums, this controller is not liked. It has not been well accepted. It has been getting as much, if not more negative responses as the original Xbox controller. Aesthetically, this controller is ugly. In fact, calling it ugly is an understatement. It is a step back from the awesome DS2. Of course that's just my opinion, but it's also the opinion of many, many who have seen the DS3.


LOL! Who do you think you're fooling here? All you've done was describe the exact design of the Xbox 360 controller. Are you implying something we don't know? If so, why don't you just get yourself a 360 controller, that way both sides are satisfied. :wink:

Also, there is not one instant where you can recall Sony copying any part of Microsoft's Duke controller design; yet it worked out perfectly for the consumer. But I would be lying if I said the same for Microsoft - esspecially with thier latest design for the 360. It might as well be a Dual Shock in a different color. It's obvious Microsoft must have seen some greatness in Sony's design from the begining for them to use such a design.
I have no problem admitting that I want the 360 controller as the PS3 controller. I have no plans on buying a 360, but it's controller is just amazing. Not just aesthetically, but in terms of functionality and usuability. I mean, honestly, I've yet to hear any complaints from people who have used it. Also, it doesn't look like the DualShock/2. It looks like the next logical step from the Controller S.

I dislike Microsoft very much, but one thing I'll give them is, they listen. The original PlayStation controller was heavily influenced by the SNES controller. Sony again took cues from Nintendo with the analog sticks. Micrososft is taking cues from all of them, combining them together into the wonderful Controller 360. I swear, I can't think of a game that I couldn't play with this controller. It's perfect for FPS', Racing games, Flight games, even action/adventure games. Not sure about Fighting games though, but that's mainly because of the DPad it uses. (But the Controller S was pretty good for fighters so I can expect the same for the 360 controller.)

I love the DualShock 2. It's not the best for a wide variety of games, but it looks good and plays well. Love the Controller S. Absolutely adore the 360 controller, but I hate the PS3 controller. But this is just my opinion. (Of course, I'm not in the minority in the issue.)

[xbdestroya]

I'm kind of liking the look of the controller actually - I understand I'm in the minority, but I feel it looks like it'll control some sort of futuristic vehicle for me. 8)

[Coded-Dude]

its a BATERANG damnit, not a banana! :?

j/k - Like I said when they released the first photos.......
I don't care what it looks like, but it looks like it will be the most comfortable, ergonomically correct controller ever created.
I can't wait to wrap my hands around that!
{thats what she said} :wink:

[FerrianX]

its a BATERANG damnit, not a banana! :?

j/k - Like I said when they released the first photos.......
I don't care what it looks like, but it looks like it will be the most comfortable, ergonomically correct controller ever created.
I can't wait to wrap my hands around that!
{thats what she said} :wink:

LOL nice end comment... I can see the adds going up on bus stops and subways round the world as we speak! :)

Honestly, I still maintain the look of the Ps3 and it's controller aren't to my complete liking, but they are steadily growing on me. The controller DOES look like a Baterang and I can see alot of good times gaming with friends going very VERY wrong with that hehehe.

Again... if you want something done right do it ur damn self... so until I hold that controller in MY OWN HANDS I will not approve of it :)

[Z]

Microsoft has already stated that the HDD in the X360 is standard.

can you give a link please?

[Domination]

I have no problem admitting that I want the 360 controller as the PS3 controller. I have no plans on buying a 360, but it's controller is just amazing. Not just aesthetically, but in terms of functionality and usuability. I mean, honestly, I've yet to hear any complaints from people who have used it. Also, it doesn't look like the DualShock/2. It looks like the next logical step from the Controller S.

I dislike Microsoft very much, but one thing I'll give them is, they listen. The original PlayStation controller was heavily influenced by the SNES controller. Sony again took cues from Nintendo with the analog sticks. Micrososft is taking cues from all of them, combining them together into the wonderful Controller 360. I swear, I can't think of a game that I couldn't play with this controller. It's perfect for FPS', Racing games, Flight games, even action/adventure games. Not sure about Fighting games though, but that's mainly because of the DPad it uses. (But the Controller S was pretty good for fighters so I can expect the same for the 360 controller.)

I love the DualShock 2. It's not the best for a wide variety of games, but it looks good and plays well. Love the Controller S. Absolutely adore the 360 controller, but I hate the PS3 controller. But this is just my opinion. (Of course, I'm not in the minority in the issue.)

I think you need to take a another look at the 360's controller. It's look just like the Dual Shock.

It is your opinion. You're right. But again, you are basing this opinion on visuals of the controller. You haven't had any hands one experience with neither controller in person. Yet, you are already making judgement about how comfortable they are, and maybe you're right. Maybe the controller won't be as comfortable when you finally get your hands on it, but as I said before, why don't you just get yourself an Xbox controller since that seems to be what you've hinted at thus far in comparison to the original Dual Shock and its changes in YOU thought would have suited the consumer better thanthe previous layout.

Lastly, there's really nothing you've brought up in your defense about this controller that didn't already carrying over to the current design except for it being ugly, and that's an opinion. It's ugly, so it's not confortable. That's not very convincing at all. Here's the original Dual Shock:

http://home.nycap.rr.com/mantor/jason/psx/dual_shock1.jpg

The formula is identical. The design is what seems to be different.

[JetBlackRX89]

deleted this cuz it was a rant :roll:

sorry

[FerrianX]

CAN'T ANYBODY KEEP ON TOPIC? ENOUGH WITH THE CONTROLLER ALREADY. THIS IS A TOPIC ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF SONY INCLUDING A HDD.

TAKE YOUR WHINING ABOUT THE BANANA CONTROLLER SOMEWHERE ELSE

*takes a breath* God... seriously

go re-read the article, it talks about both the HDD and the Controller... so deal with it.

[JetBlackRX89]

deleted this cuz it was a rant :roll:

sorry

[FerrianX]

Yeah that's the problem. If the word "controller" pops up once in any topic on these forums, it gets totally off topic about the controller. They mentioned things about an online plan briefly, but nobody's ranting on and on in this topic about the online plans, are they?

Tell me what the topic is when ur browsing the forums. I do believe it was "Sony undecided of PS3 having hard disk."

Like I said, I'm sorry but I've sick and tired of hearing people talking about the controller when there's nothing they can do. I could really care less about another 5 paragraph post ranting about their personal opinions on the banana controller.

You are correct, but you also have to understand that since the article itself hits on a few other issues non-hdd related, they are bound to be talked about. Also there is only so much you can say on the HDD issue, from size to external / internal / etc. Also a Topic is the lure, what's in the main post is the bait, so long as people don't stem outside of the main post it's not all 'that' bad.... and speaking of such i'm done on this issue.... back to the topic at hand ;)

[imported_The_One]

Having triggers allow developers to create games that are not possible on the DS2, that's all I'm saying. For FPS games, Flight games, Racing games, etc. etc. etc. having triggers are very useful, much more than buttons. What games are not possible with the DS2? Did you forget that ALL buttons (exclusing start, select, R3/L3 and the D-pad) on the DS2 are pressure sensitive? If nothing else, MGS2 should convince you of this.
As for Flight games, go play AC5, the R buttons work very well for the throttle. Personally though, I hate using the R buttons for throttle, but even I can't argue with the masses that think it's perfect.
Racing games is another point... Why the heck would you want to use a trigger for racing games? GT3/4 works very well with the pressure sensitive X button. I don't see any advantage by using a trigger.
FPS games, this is actually one of the worst arguments ever. Truthfully, gun triggers are pressure sensitive (Most are around 2-4 pounds), but not in games, so it makes no difference by using a trigger or the R/L buttons. Of course, it's much "cooler" using a trigger, but hey, who are you fooling? Both of them works the same way.

Okay, enough of my ranting, back on topic :P.

[Grandia]

I think you need to take a another look at the 360's controller. It's look just like the Dual Shock.
http://electronictheatre.co.uk/shop/images/Dual%20Shock2(Black).jpg

http://gearmedia.ign.com/gear/image/article/613/613588/xbox-360-wireless-controller-20050513052445499.jpg

I don't see them looking all that similair.

It is your opinion. You're right. But again, you are basing this opinion on visuals of the controller. You haven't had any hands one experience with neither controller in person. Yet, you are already making judgement about how comfortable they are, and maybe you're right. Maybe the controller won't be as comfortable when you finally get your hands on it, but as I said before, why don't you just get yourself an Xbox controller since that seems to be what you've hinted at thus far in comparison to the original Dual Shock and its changes in YOU thought would have suited the consumer better thanthe previous layout.
Everyone I have spoke to who have used the 360 controller, has commented on how great and comfortable it is. Just the appearance of the two controllers, for me, show which one is the superior. The X360 controller is capable of playing a lot of games more efficiently than the DualShock 3. (I hope they don't call it that, let's not ruin the name)
The analog sticks of the 360 controller seem to be the same as the Controller S, which are great. The Dual Shock 3 seems to take the same sticks of the Dual Shock 2, which aren't on par, IMO.

What I'm saying is, with the 360 Controller, it shows that Microsoft is actually trying to make their controller even better than their previous great controller. Microsoft listened to the negative feedback, and adapted it to the controller. Sony, on the other hand, took a great controller, and did nothing to help improve it's use, making it as ugly as they could.

I can use a 360 controller with the PS3? :shock: Holy crap! Then screw that Sony, make your controller as bad as you want.

Z:


Will Xbox 360 have a hard drive? How big will it be?
Yes, there is a removable 20 gigabyte hard drive included with every console. Players can remove the drive and carry it to a friend's house to transfer large amounts of information.
http://gear.ign.com/articles/613/613266p2.html

[imported_Amadeus]

*Ahem* Well, I guess i'll be the first one to get back on topic. :P




Since the console comes with USB 2.0 support, SONY could allow
any USB external harddrive to act as the harddrive for the unit.

There are some very sexy looking external hard drives out there and it wouldn't be very hard to find one that would sit perfectly beside the PS3 in a living room setting and not look good.

Sony has opened the doors by including SD Cards and Compact Flash,
so why not this?

Excellent point, Haggis.


Allow me to go "off-topic" here for a moment. ::

Regarding using the Xbox360 controller with the PS3: You know there's going to be some kind of hack to do this, it's inevitable.


Sony's saying the same thing that Microsoft said about the first Xbox, that they have the best security, and no one will be able to crack it. In something like 72 hours after the launch, Linux was booted on it, and games were ripped.

Here's to hoping the I.T pros go to work on this one, too!

[Coded-Dude]

Why not:

I would say.......becuase the internal drive is allegedly removable.
They would have to have a lot of drivers for all the possible external brands.

Of course they could just offer one external drive brand(with a nifty ps3 matching case), but that would defeat the purpose of the internal removable drive.
Not only is it portable, but its hidden!

my 2 cents

[LiquidEagle]

*Ahem* Well, I guess i'll be the first one to get back on topic. :P


Allow me to go "off-topic" here for a moment. ::

Regarding using the Xbox360 controller with the PS3: You know there's going to be some kind of hack to do this, it's inevitable.


Sony's saying the same thing that Microsoft said about the first Xbox, that they have the best security, and no one will be able to crack it. In something like 72 hours after the launch, Linux was booted on it, and games were ripped.

Here's to hoping the I.T pros go to work on this one, too!

The difference between Sony getting cracked and MS getting cracked? Sony actually makes Linux kits so people can run Linux on their PS2s :lol:

In regards to the 360 v. PS3 comparison: I played a few 360 games at E3, so I have more hands-on experience with it than probably anybody here. It took me awhile to get used to them copying the DualShock and putting in four total shoulder buttons, since him used to using my index fingers for the triggers. Using my middle fingers for the triggers felt pretty weird, but it's a pretty solid controller -- Leaps and bounds above the original and the Controller S, but that's not saying much :lol: From what I saw though, it doesn't look like the 360 controller has pressure sensitive face buttons. I could be wrong on that one, but the DS2 has had them since day one. The pressure-sensitivity really comes into play in games like MGS2 & 3, ZOE2, GT3, and SOCOM 2 (just look at the stance changing and grenade systems). I've never seen the XBox triggers used in such a way. I came this close to a PS3 controller, and it not only looks better in person, but it looks very comfortable. Like I said before, what place do you think you have to criticize Sony? $50 says you could never think to design a controller like the DS, nor could just about anybody else here. Yet, Sony made it, and it was amazing. You're dissing Sony like they don't know what they're doing. Like they're taking stabs in the dark and don't know how good the Dual Shock was. Everything points towards this controller being ultra-comfy, yet you can't get over how it looks in a few pictures. Grow up, man.

[imported_The_One]

Yet, Sony made it, and it was amazing. You're dissing Sony like they don't know what they're doing. Like they're taking stabs in the dark and don't know how good the Dual Shock was. Everything points towards this controller being ultra-comfy, yet you can't get over how it looks in a few pictures. Grow up, man. Totally agree 8).

In regards to the Xbox 360 controller, I've heard that the D-pad is ULTRA comfortable, is that true?

[Grandia]

I came this close to a PS3 controller, and it not only looks better in person, but it looks very comfortable. Like I said before, what place do you think you have to criticize Sony? $50 says you could never think to design a controller like the DS, nor could just about anybody else here. Yet, Sony made it, and it was amazing. You're dissing Sony like they don't know what they're doing. Like they're taking stabs in the dark and don't know how good the Dual Shock was. Everything points towards this controller being ultra-comfy, yet you can't get over how it looks in a few pictures. Grow up, man.
I've seen real pics of it, it doesn't help it any IMO.
The bottom line is, the controller they have shown has much positive responses. Quite the opposite. I've heard negative things about the controller from people who work at SCEA. (The good news is though, Sony is heavily thinking about changing the controller, which would make me a happy ps3 owner.)
I'll end this though. If the controller is that sorry thing they showed, then, I'll either buy third party or, if it's possible to use a 360 controller, I'll use it. (I'll chuck the poor boomerang right out of the box, hopefully, it doesn't come back though. :D )

[Z]

just don't use it. simple.
I have seen MANY gamers that use the DS for Cube and Box since it is the best controller out there. 3rd party controllers will be out as soon as the PS3 hits the streets. get one of them. I am sure the sales clirck will rush at the opotrunity to exchange it for another controller of your choice in a hear-beat.

[Domination]

I came this close to a PS3 controller, and it not only looks better in person, but it looks very comfortable. Like I said before, what place do you think you have to criticize Sony? $50 says you could never think to design a controller like the DS, nor could just about anybody else here. Yet, Sony made it, and it was amazing. You're dissing Sony like they don't know what they're doing. Like they're taking stabs in the dark and don't know how good the Dual Shock was. Everything points towards this controller being ultra-comfy, yet you can't get over how it looks in a few pictures. Grow up, man.
I've seen real pics of it, it doesn't help it any IMO.
The bottom line is, the controller they have shown has much positive responses. Quite the opposite. I've heard negative things about the controller from people who work at SCEA. (The good news is though, Sony is heavily thinking about changing the controller, which would make me a happy ps3 owner.)
I'll end this though. If the controller is that sorry thing they showed, then, I'll either buy third party or, if it's possible to use a 360 controller, I'll use it. (I'll chuck the poor boomerang right out of the box, hopefully, it doesn't come back though. :D )

http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/shake.gif You haven't even used the controller nor have any of the people criticizing it.The controller is being judged on its appearance alone. I don't know how many times that has to be pointed out to you. It's like pulling teeth. Something this simple should not be this difficult to comprehend. Your debate has little to no value without heavily applying to the current controller. The appearance of something is just not enough to prove a point, esspecially when only stills are involved.

As for the new 360 controller, the formula is about indentical to the Dual Shock. I don't see why you're setting ther denying this when it's so obvious. :?

Well, I'm a little tired, but I'm glad we can finally agree on one thing and that's you getting yourself an Xbox controller, or console, which ever comes first. That way no one is left out.

[FLCL]

I had this controller for the playstation 1. It was by far the most comfortable peice of hardware I have ever touched. I was also able to find a review of it online. The reviewer stated, "Hands down the best feel of any controller out there! Coolest design, too! Super smooth directional pad and a great rubber grip makes it a breeze to use. If you have great hands, look no further, this controller is for you. Perfect? Not quite, the directional pad is so smooth it is sometimes a bit tricky to pull off diagonals. Oh well, practice makes perfect."


Well jags, firstly welcome to the forum, and secondly thanks for that info! 8)

I personally think the controller looks workable, and as long as it's not too big, I'd definitely be willing to give it a shot.

i think it was stated by the press that the controller is actually quit small

[LiquidEagle]

In regards to the Xbox 360 controller, I've heard that the D-pad is ULTRA comfortable, is that true?

Honestly, I never touched the D-Pad. I played Full Auto and Condemned, and didn't even bother with the D-Pad in either one. I played one race-worth of Full Auto (which I wouldn't say really renders a whole city since I didn't get to go off track in the least, those arrows telling me which way to go made sure of that!), and significantly less Condemned. I was walking around in Condemned and beat somebody down with a pipe. As I was hitting his corpse to mess with the physics, I knocked half of his body through the ground, and he clipped through in a funny-looking way. One of the Sega guys (probably a developer) was like "Nice!" as a joke, and I just said "Okay, I don't think I can top that" and moved along.

The controller worked well for both games, but like I said it'll take some getting used to for the shoulder buttons. As much as I'm used to using 4 shoulder buttons on the DS2, I found my fingers placing themselves in Xbox 1 positions, which I never fully changed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/LiquidEagle/E3%202k5/Picture036.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/LiquidEagle/E3%202k5/Picture036.jpg)

That picture that I took should give you an idea of how close I got to the controller, I put my hands up by it to get an idea of how it would fit in my hand, and it was fine. I was hoping one of my friends would put their hands next to it to give people a good idea for the scale of it, but I guess I forgot to ask them or something :lol: .

Moving back to the hard-drive... I'm really hoping Sony includes it. Somebody mentioned memory cards earlier as getting dev. support despite being an add-on peripheral. I think that's an unfair comparison since memory cards are complete necessities. There's really no way to get around that. Those have been established as console necessities, and were the only way to save your game on PS1 & PS2. If you're going to use a memory card as an example, I'd use the XBox memory card as more of an example. Everybody who wanted to save their game on XBox already had a hard-drive (let's just equate this to everybody who wanted to save their PS2 game buying a memory card at or near launch), and the memory card was an additional unit to buy. That thing has probably never sold well, despite its advantages. I guess you could argue that no games ever needed the XBox memory card, but then again, FFXI and SOCOM 2 are like the only PS2 games in North America that use the Hard-drive, and S2 barely uses it! It's practically no games :lol:

I'd be willing to pay the extra money if Sony put a hard-drive in there from the get-go, I don't want a PS3 HDD to be viewed like a premium peripheral or limited penetration add-on that would have any chance of being overlooked by developers. Either way though, I think Sony's being very ambitious with the PS3's multimedia functions, so I'm guessing the Hard-Drive will have a lot of support behind it should it end up being an optional add-on. It would just be great to have the security of knowing that it's there from the start and something everybody can use.

[GUNDAMSEED]

But you see i don't want SONY to put in a HDD, if they put in lets say a 20gb like MS after 3 games the HDD is dead . i don't want to pay for that . I much rather buy my system and when i want a HDD i buy a 120 or 160 something like that . i am a rpg person XS ep 2 is 2 dvds same for SO3 after thoses 2 games the HDD has almost no space left . Everyone i know that has a xbox don't even have the HDD it came with, they took out and put in something much bigger .

[imported_Tacitblue]

Not to be a fanboy, but XBox hard drive utility has been as much to do with bug fixes as adding gameplay material on. They need better quality control in their testing phase IMO.

[Grandia]

http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/shake.gif You haven't even used the controller nor have any of the people criticizing it.The controller is being judged on its appearance alone. I don't know how many times that has to be pointed out to you. It's like pulling teeth. Something this simple should not be this difficult to comprehend. Your debate has little to no value without heavily applying to the current controller. The appearance of something is just not enough to prove a point, esspecially when only stills are involved.

As for the new 360 controller, the formula is about indentical to the Dual Shock. I don't see why you're setting ther denying this when it's so obvious. :?

Well, I'm a little tired, but I'm glad we can finally agree on one thing and that's you getting yourself an Xbox controller, or console, which ever comes first. That way no one is left out.
I'm sorry, appearance is a big thing for me and plenty of other people. I am sick of the whole controller thing. Do you know how many photoshops of this controller I've seen? It's getting ridiculous now. In my opinion, again, my opinion, I do not see this controller being comfortable. That is my opinion. My other point is, I don't see this controller improving on the issues that I feel that Sony should have focused on. There was nothing wrong with the shape of the Dual Shock 2. If they wanted to improve the controller, I feel that they should have added things that would have improved the playability of certain games. I am purchasing the PS3. I have every right to complain about the controller. Have I felt it? No. But what's going to change when I do? Is it suddenly going to stop looking ugly? Is it going to help improve the usuability? I don't think so.

The formula? Exactly what is the formula? I mean, couldn't we say the Dual Shock's "formula" is almost identical to that of the SNES controller? I'm not denying the fact that it takes some cues from the DS2, what I'm saying is, I don't see it being all that identical to it. In my opinion, it seems as if it's the next logical step for controllers.

I don't want an Xbox 360. I do want the controller. If Sony is stupid enough to release this controller, I hope that a third party controller actually releases a great PS3 controller, or an adapter, where I can get a 360 controller.

Anyway, on topic, if Sony doesn't bother to include a HDD standard, what's going to stop it from ending up like the PS2 HDD?

[Coded-Dude]

the dual shock was too small for most peoples hands.
Say what you want, but no one I know can grasp the DS2 with their entire hand
(besides my buddies 6 year old of course)

I can undertand how it might be hard to SEE the comfortableness of the new design, but its there....trust me!
I think most people are just comfortable with the "look" of the DS2, not its ergonomic function(or lack thereof)

Anywho, I hope they keep it the way it is(the E3 concept demo)

[LiquidEagle]

I'm sorry, appearance is a big thing for me and plenty of other people. I am sick of the whole controller thing. Do you know how many photoshops of this controller I've seen? It's getting ridiculous now. In my opinion, again, my opinion, I do not see this controller being comfortable. That is my opinion. My other point is, I don't see this controller improving on the issues that I feel that Sony should have focused on. There was nothing wrong with the shape of the Dual Shock 2. If they wanted to improve the controller, I feel that they should have added things that would have improved the playability of certain games. I am purchasing the PS3. I have every right to complain about the controller. Have I felt it? No. But what's going to change when I do? Is it suddenly going to stop looking ugly? Is it going to help improve the usuability? I don't think so.

The formula? Exactly what is the formula? I mean, couldn't we say the Dual Shock's "formula" is almost identical to that of the SNES controller? I'm not denying the fact that it takes some cues from the DS2, what I'm saying is, I don't see it being all that identical to it. In my opinion, it seems as if it's the next logical step for controllers.

I don't want an Xbox 360. I do want the controller. If Sony is stupid enough to release this controller, I hope that a third party controller actually releases a great PS3 controller, or an adapter, where I can get a 360 controller.

Anyway, on topic, if Sony doesn't bother to include a HDD standard, what's going to stop it from ending up like the PS2 HDD?

Well I'm glad you finally apologized for placing so much importance in the look of a controller. :P Also, there's photoshops of just about everything, are you taking a cue from the morons that think they're clever by putting two pictures together? Is that what decides how good a controller is? And you said, in your opinion, you don't see the controller being comfortable. We're all reminding you how uninformed this opinion really is. No offense, but you've never been within several hundred miles of this controller, nor have you seen anybody holding it in their hand (besides Crocodile Dundee :lol:). Really though, what right do you have to complain about a controller? Far as I can tell you haven't designed a better one, nor has anybody else on the planet. I know I could never think of something near as good as the Dual Shock. Of course, the exception is apprently Alps Interactive, whose controller concept had marked improvements over the Dual Shock, and is curiously enough the apparent inspiration for the PS3 controller.

So let's look at some facts here: You've never seen the controller in real life, nor have you met anybody who's touched the controller, yet you're saying it's crap because it doesn't look good and doesn't look comfortable. On the other side, we have several similarities this controller has to what many reviews hail as the most comfortable controller ever designed, something that is incredibly ergonomic. Also, never say never about being converted when you hold the controller in your hand. I'm not going to say for sure that you'll have a change of heart as soon as the controller graces your fingers or something, that would probably jinx it :lol: . However, it wouldn't be the first time it would happen.

And lastly, you're basing this opinion on little to no facts. You're also comparing this controller you've never touched or seen up close to another controller you've never touched or seen up close (360 controller). So, why do you insist on calling Sony stupid? It seems rather harsh that you'd insult the creator of the greatest controller of all time because your uninformed opinion clashes with their new design. Okay I'm done :lol:

[Grandia]

Well I'm glad you finally apologized for placing so much importance in the look of a controller. :P Also, there's photoshops of just about everything, are you taking a cue from the morons that think they're clever by putting two pictures together? Is that what decides how good a controller is? And you said, in your opinion, you don't see the controller being comfortable. We're all reminding you how uninformed this opinion really is. No offense, but you've never been within several hundred miles of this controller, nor have you seen anybody holding it in their hand (besides Crocodile Dundee :lol:). Really though, what right do you have to complain about a controller? Far as I can tell you haven't designed a better one, nor has anybody else on the planet. I know I could never think of something near as good as the Dual Shock. Of course, the exception is apprently Alps Interactive, whose controller concept had marked improvements over the Dual Shock, and is curiously enough the apparent inspiration for the PS3 controller.
No, but it's getting rather annoying with the entire photoshops.
I shouldn't criticize because I've yet to design a controller? I'm going to be the one who has to use the darn thing, if it's not comfortable, I believe I have every right to complain. I may not have designed a better controller but I think it's an opinion whether or not some has designed a better controller. I personally adore the Controller S as much as the DS2, and the Xbox360 controller improves on it.


So let's look at some facts here: You've never seen the controller in real life, nor have you met anybody who's touched the controller, yet you're saying it's crap because it doesn't look good and doesn't look comfortable. On the other side, we have several similarities this controller has to what many reviews hail as the most comfortable controller ever designed, something that is incredibly ergonomic. Also, never say never about being converted when you hold the controller in your hand. I'm not going to say for sure that you'll have a change of heart as soon as the controller graces your fingers or something, that would probably jinx it :lol: . However, it wouldn't be the first time it would happen.
It's my opinion that Sony could have done a much better job designing the controller. This is my opinion though. You state that it has many things in common with the Alps controller, but, it also has things in common with plenty of those crappy PC controllers which look similair. (Some sidewinders, etc. etc. etc.) And trust me, most of those are not good. I will say never, because I never plan on touching the controller. If Sony doesn't have the common sense to design a great controller, I'll be buying a 3rd party controller, or, if there is an adaptor, a 360 controller. I kid you not, when I say I will throw the controller away out of the box.


And lastly, you're basing this opinion on little to no facts. You're also comparing this controller you've never touched or seen up close to another controller you've never touched or seen up close (360 controller). So, why do you insist on calling Sony stupid? It seems rather harsh that you'd insult the creator of the greatest controller of all time because your uninformed opinion clashes with their new design. Okay I'm done :lol:
I've seen an Xbox360 controller up close, I just haven't touched it. But everyone I have spoken too who have touched the controller, have said that Microsoft created a controller that is perfect for any type of game, and how it just feels natural in your hand. I've yet to see anything but negative press on the PS3 controller. No, people haven't used it. But it won't offer the same adaptability as the Xbox360 controller will.

Why don't we just agree to disagree? I think this is monstrosity should never have happened, but that is just my opinion.

(Since you were at E3, how big is the PS3 compared to the PS2?)

[lip2lip]

I don't think either system is going to use the hdd for prefetching. rom drives are pretty much on par with laptop harddisk for access speed. I don't understand why anyone is worried about this.

[Domination]

http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/shake.gif You haven't even used the controller nor have any of the people criticizing it.The controller is being judged on its appearance alone. I don't know how many times that has to be pointed out to you. It's like pulling teeth. Something this simple should not be this difficult to comprehend. Your debate has little to no value without heavily applying to the current controller. The appearance of something is just not enough to prove a point, esspecially when only stills are involved.

As for the new 360 controller, the formula is about indentical to the Dual Shock. I don't see why you're setting ther denying this when it's so obvious. :?

Well, I'm a little tired, but I'm glad we can finally agree on one thing and that's you getting yourself an Xbox controller, or console, which ever comes first. That way no one is left out.
I'm sorry, appearance is a big thing for me and plenty of other people. I am sick of the whole controller thing. Do you know how many photoshops of this controller I've seen? It's getting ridiculous now. In my opinion, again, my opinion, I do not see this controller being comfortable. That is my opinion. My other point is, I don't see this controller improving on the issues that I feel that Sony should have focused on. There was nothing wrong with the shape of the Dual Shock 2. If they wanted to improve the controller, I feel that they should have added things that would have improved the playability of certain games. I am purchasing the PS3. I have every right to complain about the controller. Have I felt it? No. But what's going to change when I do? Is it suddenly going to stop looking ugly? Is it going to help improve the usuability? I don't think so.

The formula? Exactly what is the formula? I mean, couldn't we say the Dual Shock's "formula" is almost identical to that of the SNES controller? I'm not denying the fact that it takes some cues from the DS2, what I'm saying is, I don't see it being all that identical to it. In my opinion, it seems as if it's the next logical step for controllers.

I don't want an Xbox 360. I do want the controller. If Sony is stupid enough to release this controller, I hope that a third party controller actually releases a great PS3 controller, or an adapter, where I can get a 360 controller.

Anyway, on topic, if Sony doesn't bother to include a HDD standard, what's going to stop it from ending up like the PS2 HDD?

I have no problem with your opinion of the controller. I respect it, infact. What seems to trouble me, though, is you thinking that Sony messed a prefectly good controller up for the dozens of consumers getting ready to purchase the console, and your only defense to it all is the fact that you think its ugly. Not only do you feel this way, but other do as well. But the fact is neither of you actually held the controller to even determine such a thing even if it were true. The negatives for this controller were based on visuals alone - most were stills. Sometimes there's more than it seems.

The positives, however, are coming from hands on experience of a controller extremely similiar to this one. Not only that, but this controller is a prototype of the actual model. Not that Sony will be making any major changes before launch, but the overall look could become slightly more attractive than the design we are currently looking at.

While were still on the design of the controller, let me point out that the shoulder buttons on the original Dual Shock weren't as comfortable as I would have liked when playing certain titles that require continueous shoulder mashing. I also managed to loose grip of the handles on more than a few occasions when using the shoulders. Now it looks as if some of those main pet-peeves of mine were solved. The only thing left is to try it out to see it it actually works.

But, anyhow, I would assume that I wasn't the only one to expeience these uncomfortable moments for the last Dual Shock.

More on the 360's controller....

Just where are you going with this, Grandia? Of course Sony copied Nintendo's SNES controller. They also improved it, too without having to make a last minute decision for a knew controller that rivals their competitors in order to appeal to the market. But, that's not what we're debating here. This contraversy is touching on points to why Microsoft would copy Sony's Dual Shock formula and not the other way around. It's a simple explination, really. Sony's formula worked for the market while Microsoft's formula didn't. The only thing really different about the Xbox controller is the D pad in a different position and the shoulders having two triggers instead of two buttons. Nothing differs much from what the Dual Shock originally offered. Having said that, Sony seems fine by themselves with their own decisions for a new controller without the likes of an unproven Microsoft solution. However blunt and acrid that may sounds, it's very true.

My advice, let the professionals work. They have proven themselves capable more than twice before in design.

[Grandia]

I have no problem with your opinion of the controller. I respect it, infact. What seems to trouble me, though, is you thinking that Sony messed a prefectly good controller up for the dozens of consumers getting ready to purchase the console, and your only defense to it all is the fact that you think its ugly. Not only do you feel this way, but other do as well. But the fact is neither of you actually held the controller to even determine such a thing even if it were true. The negatives for this controller were based on visuals alone - most were stills. Sometimes there's more than it seems.

The positives, however, are coming from hands on experience of a controller extremely similiar to this one. Not only that, but this controller is a prototype of the actual model. Not that Sony will be making any major changes before launch, but the overall look could become slightly more attractive than the design we are currently looking at.

While were still on the design of the controller, let me point out that the shoulder buttons on the original Dual Shock weren't as comfortable as I would have liked when playing certain titles that require continueous shoulder mashing. I also managed to loose grip of the handles on more than a few occasions when using the shoulders. Now it looks as if some of those main pet-peeves of mine were solved. The only thing left is to try it out to see it it actually works.

But, anyhow, I would assume that I wasn't the only one to expeience these uncomfortable moments for the last Dual Shock.
I've got a friend who works for SCEA. He said that there is still a lot of controversy within Sony about the controller. He, personally does not like the new controller. All I'm saying is, I would have preferred if they did something else with the controller. That's it. There are a lot of controllers that resemble the Boomerang, and a lot of them are not good. I personally will be very happy if they change the controller, for the better.


More on the 360's controller....

Just where are you going with this, Grandia? Of course Sony copied Nintendo's SNES controller. They also improved it, too without having to make a last minute decision for a knew controller that rivals their competitors in order to appeal to the market. But, that's not what we're debating here. This contraversy is touching on points to why Microsoft would copy Sony's Dual Shock formula and not the other way around. It's a simple explination, really. Sony's formula worked for the market while Microsoft's formula didn't. The only thing really different about the Xbox controller is the D pad in a different position and the shoulders having two triggers instead of two buttons. Nothing differs much from what the Dual Shock originally offered. Having said that, Sony seems fine by themselves with their own decisions for a new controller without the likes of an unproven Microsoft solution. However blunt and acrid that may sounds, it's very true.

My advice, let the professionals work. They have proven themselves capable more than twice before in design.
They did change the controller once Nintendo introduced Analog Sticks.
Lots of people like the Controller S. But the one issue that people had was the position of the Black and White buttons. So, Microsoft took those comments and placed them in a more comfortable spot, in other words, shoulder buttons. Microsoft actually spoke to the consumers and the developers about the controller, which I personally think is a great thing. I don't think that Sony did the same. Microsoft took the best things of the best controllers, and added them together to create an awesome controller.

[Domination]

I have no problem with your opinion of the controller. I respect it, infact. What seems to trouble me, though, is you thinking that Sony messed a prefectly good controller up for the dozens of consumers getting ready to purchase the console, and your only defense to it all is the fact that you think its ugly. Not only do you feel this way, but other do as well. But the fact is neither of you actually held the controller to even determine such a thing even if it were true. The negatives for this controller were based on visuals alone - most were stills. Sometimes there's more than it seems.

The positives, however, are coming from hands on experience of a controller extremely similiar to this one. Not only that, but this controller is a prototype of the actual model. Not that Sony will be making any major changes before launch, but the overall look could become slightly more attractive than the design we are currently looking at.

While were still on the design of the controller, let me point out that the shoulder buttons on the original Dual Shock weren't as comfortable as I would have liked when playing certain titles that require continueous shoulder mashing. I also managed to loose grip of the handles on more than a few occasions when using the shoulders. Now it looks as if some of those main pet-peeves of mine were solved. The only thing left is to try it out to see it it actually works.

But, anyhow, I would assume that I wasn't the only one to expeience these uncomfortable moments for the last Dual Shock.
I've got a friend who works for SCEA. He said that there is still a lot of controversy within Sony about the controller. He, personally does not like the new controller. All I'm saying is, I would have preferred if they did something else with the controller. That's it. There are a lot of controllers that resemble the Boomerang, and a lot of them are not good. I personally will be very happy if they change the controller, for the better.


More on the 360's controller....

Just where are you going with this, Grandia? Of course Sony copied Nintendo's SNES controller. They also improved it, too without having to make a last minute decision for a knew controller that rivals their competitors in order to appeal to the market. But, that's not what we're debating here. This contraversy is touching on points to why Microsoft would copy Sony's Dual Shock formula and not the other way around. It's a simple explination, really. Sony's formula worked for the market while Microsoft's formula didn't. The only thing really different about the Xbox controller is the D pad in a different position and the shoulders having two triggers instead of two buttons. Nothing differs much from what the Dual Shock originally offered. Having said that, Sony seems fine by themselves with their own decisions for a new controller without the likes of an unproven Microsoft solution. However blunt and acrid that may sounds, it's very true.

My advice, let the professionals work. They have proven themselves capable more than twice before in design.
They did change the controller once Nintendo introduced Analog Sticks.
Lots of people like the Controller S. But the one issue that people had was the position of the Black and White buttons. So, Microsoft took those comments and placed them in a more comfortable spot, in other words, shoulder buttons. Microsoft actually spoke to the consumers and the developers about the controller, which I personally think is a great thing. I don't think that Sony did the same. Microsoft took the best things of the best controllers, and added them together to create an awesome controller.

I'm not calling you a lier, but it's kinda strange how you have just now brought this up before your last attempts with the pictures and media, but ok. I guess if it makes you happy, then I'm happy. :wink:

Also, this is a prototype. Lets's not ofget that. Smaller changes will still be made.

As for the PlayStation controller, Sony never changed the actual design or formula in any way. All they did was add two, and not one, analog sticks,which includes R3 and L3, and with added motors to allow the controller to rumble. Infact the orginal controller was still being sold. I picked up twin white ones five years later at Best Buy. Have you seen the Duke compared to the S controller? Not the same at all. The controller was completely revamped in design and in formula.

[Grandia]

I'm not calling you a lier, but it's kinda strange how you have just now brought this up before your last attempts with the pictures and media, but ok. I guess if it makes you happy, then I'm happy. :wink:

Also, this is a prototype. Lets's not ofget that. Smaller changes will still be made.

As for the PlayStation controller, Sony never changed the actual design or formula in any way. All they did was add two, and not one, analog sticks,which includes R3 and L3, and with added motors to allow the controller to rumble. Infact the orginal controller was still being sold. I picked up twin white ones five years later at Best Buy. Have you seen the Duke compared to the S controller? Not the same at all. The controller was completely revamped in design and in formula.
I didn't just bring that up, I believe I already mentioned that in a previous post.

Hopefully the changes are not that small.

I can still buy the Duke...
The Controller S is just the Japanese version of the Xbox controller. Microsoft knew that the Duke would not appeal to the Japanese market, so they hired a Japanese company to revise the controller for that market. People started to complain about the Duke, so Microsoft just shipped it as the Controller S.

[Z]

also, by looking at a pic, one can say it ‘looks’ good or bad. But the strange thing is that some people actually scrutinizes the controller to the lowest level and accuse Sony of doing a huge mistake…all that based on a pic. On the other hand a pic is all you got for the X2’s. that controller is evidently a DS design. switching the D pad with the analog stick doesn’t change that fact. They ‘added’ the idea of replacing the R2, L2 buttons with triggers. Look at PS2 3rd party controllers, some do that. There is also one where you can switch and change all for parts; D pad, both stick and the right thumb buttons. In fact, it looks just like a 3rd party DS.
Having said that, that doesn’t necessarily mean a bad thing mind you. In fact, that is a good thing because they copied the best, and DS is certainly the best.

About PS3 DS; I don’t see what is the issue here. What differs from the current DS? It changed the angled industrial shape to a more natural organic curve. That is a wonderful idea. Now you won’t feel those edgy curbs and pointy corners when holding it. Other than that, it is still a DS in design in general. Again, it could be passed as a 3rd party DS.

In any case, whining again and again is unnecessary, as is praising again and again. We gave our thoughts and when we try them, we will still have different opinions. No big deal. That is what 3rd party is for. ;)

[Grandia]

also, by looking at a pic, one can say it ‘looks’ good or bad. But the strange thing is that some people actually scrutinizes the controller to the lowest level and accuse Sony of doing a huge mistake…all that based on a pic. On the other hand a pic is all you got for the X2’s. that controller is evidently a DS design. switching the D pad with the analog stick doesn’t change that fact. They ‘added’ the idea of replacing the R2, L2 buttons with triggers. Look at PS2 3rd party controllers, some do that. There is also one where you can switch and change all for parts; D pad, both stick and the right thumb buttons. In fact, it looks just like a 3rd party DS.
Having said that, that doesn’t necessarily mean a bad thing mind you. In fact, that is a good thing because they copied the best, and DS is certainly the best.
The only thing they're doing is moving the Black and White buttons. The controller is obviously an evolution to the Controller S. It's not as if they took the DS2 and evolved it into that, they based the new controller on the Controller S. They didn't add that idea, they kept it from the Controller S, which took it from the Dreamcast. They took elements from the DS2, yes, but I wouldn't call it a copy of the controller. I could understand if you said they merged the Controller S with the Dual Shock 2 though. (Which is what I hope Sony does...)
The pic shows a controller that seems to be great for a wide variety of games. Next we have users who have used the controller, who have commented that it is perfect.


About PS3 DS; I don’t see what is the issue here. What differs from the current DS? It changed the angled industrial shape to a more natural organic curve. That is a wonderful idea. Now you won’t feel those edgy curbs and pointy corners when holding it. Other than that, it is still a DS in design in general. Again, it could be passed as a 3rd party DS.

In any case, whining again and again is unnecessary, as is praising again and again. We gave our thoughts and when we try them, we will still have different opinions. No big deal. That is what 3rd party is for. ;)
The only thing I ask for from the 3rd party is for an adaptor, so I can use a great controller to play my PS3 games.