Toshiba and Sony to agree on Blu Ray standard

[Domination]

TOKYO (Nikkei)--In ongoing negotiations between Sony Corp. (SNE) and Toshiba Corp. (6502.TO) toward developing a unified standard for next-generation DVDs, the two sides are hammering out a format in which Toshiba's software technology would be coupled with Sony's disc structure, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun reports in its Tuesday morning edition.

The Blu-ray Disc format proposed by Sony and Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. (6752.TO) is incompatible with the HD DVD standard supported by Toshiba. The three firms have been in talks to craft a common standard, and a detailed plan could be finalized within the week.

While Toshiba would be forced to make concessions on disc structure, it is considering accepting the arrangement after assessing such factors as production costs. Sony and Toshiba could secure the backing of participating members as early as May 16, when both are scheduled to hold meetings.

The two camps are focusing on the Sony format for the optical disc structure, in which data is recorded 0.1mm from the disc's surface. Toshiba's software, which offers efficient data transfer and copyright protection, would be incorporated into the unified format.

The Sony standard allows for stacked recording layers, paving the way for increased capacity. However, it requires advanced production technology. The Toshiba-format discs, which use the same structure as current DVDs, can be produced at lower cost than their Sony counterparts.

Toshiba had proposed the use of its own recording format, which records data at a depth of 0.6mm, in conjunction with Sony's high-capacity technology. But Sony and Matsushita expressed reservations, saying major Hollywood studios - such as Walt Disney Co. (DIS) - as well as the computer and video game industries were calling for a high-capacity recording medium.

In recent talks, Toshiba has taken a more flexible stance, noting that the Sony disc structure may be inevitable in light of various considerations. The company is seeking proof that the discs based on the Sony format can be mass-produced at low cost.

The chances of the rival camps failing to reach a unified standard are seen as low. But given that Time Warner Inc. (TWX) and parts manufacturers that have prepared software under the Toshiba standard are expected to resist the revised format, the negotiations could take more time.

Source (http://ranobe.com/up/updata/up36772.jpg)

[xbdestroya]

Well, this time we posted it the EXACT same minute Dom - so we'll consider this round a tie. 8)

[imported_The_One]

Well, this time we posted it the EXACT same minute Dom - so we'll consider this round a tie. 8) And I'm always left in the dust :(.

The two camps are focusing on the Sony format for the optical disc structure, in which data is recorded 0.1mm from the disc's surface. Toshiba's software, which offers efficient data transfer and copyright protection, would be incorporated into the unified format. On the bright side, at least we'll still have the higher storage capacity and transfer rate associated with Blu-Ray 8).

[Domination]

:lol: fair enough.

This is great news, though. I really didn't want to settle with Toshiba's idea: way too inferior for my taste. It is said by Toshiba that Sony's Blu Ray solution seems to be inevitable to turn down. But first they'll have to make sure their solution will be profitable. Hopefully something will turn up before E3. :D That's means cheaper discs and DVD drives.

[xbdestroya]

Sony, Toshiba to agree on new DVD format -paper
Mon May 9, 2005 5:25 PM ET

SEATTLE (Reuters) - Japan's Sony Corp. (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research)
and Toshiba Corp. (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) are close to finalizing
a plan to develop a common standard for next-generation DVDs to resolve a
three-year-long battle over formats that threatened the industry's growth, a
Japanese newspaper reported on Monday.

A detailed plan could be unveiled ahead of a key meeting of manufacturers
involved in the manufacture of next-generation DVDs scheduled for May 16,
the Nihon Keizai Shimbun said.

Sony, along with Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. Ltd. (6752.T: Quote,
Profile, Research), maker of Panasonic brand products, had been pushing for
the standard it calls Blu-ray, while Toshiba, with NEC Corp. (6701.T: Quote,
Profile, Research) and Sanyo Electric Co. Ltd. (6764.T: Quote, Profile,
Research), has been promoting a technology called HD DVD.

Both sides have indicated that a new, unified format will use Sony's
technology for recording information onto an optical disk while Toshiba will
supply software that will handle efficient data transfer and copyright
protection.

(Reuters)

[indie85]

If you think about it this is a win-win situation for sony, instead of blu-ray we're getting blu-ray+ which is compatible with HD-DVD. Good news. I just wanna see some pics now of what this thing can do, I've been waiting for soooooo long.

[senas8]

Yeaaaaahhhhhhh....not that I profit from it. :)

[cpiasminc]

Hmmm... "in light of various considerations..." I'm wondering what sort of strings Sony pulled there.

Let me see if I can make that out -- Sony offered Toshiba a chance to get their hooks deeper into PS3 than simply their part in CELL (perhaps the audio processor? Toshiba does have a good DSP line) so long as Sony gets to stick by Bluray for PS3. And now Toshiba is deciding to concede that Bluray will have an immediate customer base thereby perpetuating it in the longrun... now that they're probably getting a larger profitshare of PS3, anyway.

[FerrianX]

Hmmm... "in light of various considerations..." I'm wondering what sort of strings Sony pulled there.

Let me see if I can make that out -- Sony offered Toshiba a chance to get their hooks deeper into PS3 than simply their part in CELL (perhaps the audio processor? Toshiba does have a good DSP line) so long as Sony gets to stick by Bluray for PS3. And now Toshiba is deciding to concede that Bluray will have an immediate customer base thereby perpetuating it in the longrun... now that they're probably getting a larger profitshare of PS3, anyway.

I'm not so sure it was due to Sony pulling strings as opposed to various backers of BluRay putting their foot down. In the end everyone has to relize BluRay is the superior product... Toshiba IMHO is lucky to be getting this good a deal.

[lilkoy123]

Yeaaaaahhhhhhh....not that I profit from it. :) :lol:
Well... we're going to profit from all gaming and entertainment goodness it's going to give us. 8)

[the legendary ice man]

Wasn't the Blu-Ray - HD-DVD split right between to the main industries.

Gamers for Blu-Ray and Film makers (not including MGM and Sony) for HD-DVD?

[Z]

actually BD has the most support in every market- most notably the PC manufacturers. The only one which is a tie is the movie industry. I still scratch my head asking why Sony compromised. Maybe they are playing it safe.

[Pina]

Nobody wants another VHS Betamax thing, one format to rule them all! is better for everyone.

[anthonyp0696]

I'm glad that they settled on an all purpose system, because until blu ray is proven a lot of companys will stsill resist. SO now even if hollywood still chooses hd dvd we still pay out in the end. By we I mean those hopin to get their clutches on a PS3.

[FerrianX]

I'm glad that they settled on an all purpose system, because until blu ray is proven a lot of companys will stsill resist. SO now even if hollywood still chooses hd dvd we still pay out in the end. By we I mean those hopin to get their clutches on a PS3.

As Z stated the gaming and PC Industry almost all back Bluray. That makes the only people whom are opposed to this merger the other half hollywood since they are split 50/50. Even that I only think it's Time Warner whom are complaining since they have already agreed to launch some titles on the hd-dvd format. Give it time the remaining half of Hollywood will see the 'blu' light :lol:

[anthonyp0696]

lol time warner is always messing something up for everybody. O well let em be stubborn all they want eventuall when they figure out that dvd is old tech an not worth the discs they pressed on the will change their minds.

[lilkoy123]

:x Darn it. Toshiba's too stubborn.

Toshiba Denies Blu-ray
The high definition soap opera continues as reports of Blu-ray's victory are denied.
by Anoop Gantayat

May 10, 2005 - Sony and Toshiba have issued statements on today's Nihon Kiezai Shimbun report of a settlement in negotiations for a single high definition DVD standard. Both parties deny the report, which suggested that an agreement had been forged to adopt Sony's 0.1 millimeter Blu-ray disk technology and Toshiba's software technology for the new format.

Toshiba, a major backer of the HD-DVD next generation format, acknowledged that, under the belief that a single format would most benefit customers, negotiations are still under way with Matsushita and Sony, Blu-ray's primary backers, but denied that a settlement has been reached. In addition, the company revealed plans to show off the current HD-DVD format at the Media Tech Expo, set to kick off in Las Vegas on 5/11.

Sony offered a similar denial, stating that while a single format is ideal, there have been no major advancements since negotiations were first announced on April 21. "The only true aspect of this report is that Sony, Matsushita and Toshiba are currently engaged in negotiations," a Sony representative stated.

The Nihon Keizai Shimbun has had breaking news stories denied and then proven correct many times before. Is this a case of Toshiba and Sony trying to take control of a bit of hot information that leaked out ahead of schedule, or have there truly been no advancements in negotiations for a single format next generation DVD? We expect more details to surface shortly (and be subsequently denied).

[xbdestroya]

Yeah, PR departments from both are in denial today, but I have a feeling something serious is up. :wink:

Afterall, the Nihon Keizai is a major newspapr that wouldn't just report on stuff unless they felt they had a decent line.

[O.D.S]

By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service

Toshiba Corp. has developed a prototype HD-DVD disc that increases the format’s storage capacity by 50 percent and brings it much closer to that of the rival Blu-ray Disc, the company said Tuesday.

The new disc has a capacity of 45GB, which is just under the 50GB offered by a dual-layer Blu-ray Disc, and will give content producers additional space to store longer high-definition movies or extras such as trailers, out-takes or interactive features.

Toshiba accomplished the capacity jump by adding an extra data storage layer to the disc. Each HD-DVD layer has a capacity of 15GB and the new disc packs three such layers.

Good news or Bad News? :?

[indie85]

By Martyn Williams, IDG News Service

Toshiba Corp. has developed a prototype HD-DVD disc that increases the format’s storage capacity by 50 percent and brings it much closer to that of the rival Blu-ray Disc, the company said Tuesday.

The new disc has a capacity of 45GB, which is just under the 50GB offered by a dual-layer Blu-ray Disc, and will give content producers additional space to store longer high-definition movies or extras such as trailers, out-takes or interactive features.

Toshiba accomplished the capacity jump by adding an extra data storage layer to the disc. Each HD-DVD layer has a capacity of 15GB and the new disc packs three such layers.

Good news or Bad News? :?
Hah, ok pack another layer on a blu-ray disc and you've got 100GB. Toshiba is really being stupid if it wants to go alone.

[xbdestroya]

Good news or Bad News? :?

Well, if you want blu-ray to win, it's not good news - but maybe it's good news on the whole? I don't know. In the end we'll see I guess if Sony and Toshiba are able to reach an accord - obviously both companies are not ceasing R&D on their respective formats though until that time comes.

[FerrianX]

Toshiba is acting like a spoiled brat... I sometimes wonder if they decide to go through with this deal, what will they have to offer Sony afterwards? The impression they give me is that they are going to burn the remaining cash they have towards R&D for HD-DVD, and then sign the deal with Sony and ride on their back claiming "oh but we gave you the disc software for Bluray... what more do you want from us???".... bunch of parasite bastards Toshiba are.

[O.D.S]

ive read somewhere (cant remember the exact place) but the article stated that BOTH formats will be on show for some conference this Friday.

This and the Quote i posted above makes you wonder how long Sony are willing to drag out this process of selecting a medium for the PS3.

Now,Will this impact what sony will be able to show at E3?, will it push PS3 1 or 2 months down the track until they build a new laser?

[xbdestroya]

ive read somewhere (cant remember the exact place) but the article stated that BOTH formats will be on show for some conference this Friday.

This and the Quote i posted above makes you wonder how long Sony are willing to drag out this process of selecting a medium for the PS3.

Now,Will this impact what sony will be able to show at E3?, will it push PS3 1 or 2 months down the track until they build a new laser?

Well, everythign else aside, the default format for the PS3 at the moment is, supposedly (at least from Sony's mouth) blu-ray. So, whether that changes or not is what we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully whatever happens, it won't delay launch, and it will work as a solid HD-player for the next-gen, with a format that will be widely supported.

[n1n9tean]

Sony, Toshiba deny next-gen disc pact

Despite Japanese press reports of a unified Blu-ray-HD-DVD format, the companies behind the respective technologies say they've yet to agree.
According to the Nikkei Journal, Sony and Toshiba are finalizing plans to develop a unified disc format. The newspaper reported today that the two companies have agreed to combine Sony's 0.1mm protective layer and Toshiba's interface software. The reported agreement could be revealed as early as next week, says the paper, but both Sony and Toshiba are vehemently denying that any compromise has been reached.


Despite these denials, the Journal offered up some specifics on the alleged new format agreement. Chief among them is the supposed decision to adopt the Sony Blu-ray's 0.1mm protective layer.

Normal DVDs have a 0.6mm protective layer of plastic spread across their data-bearing surfaces, but Sony's Blu-ray disc format sacrifices durability in favor of more storage space. Use of this 0.1mm coating would require disc manufacturers to purchase new equipment, whereas Toshiba's 0.6mm coated HD-DVD discs can be laminated and polished with existing equipment.

The Nikkei Journal also alleges that Toshiba has agreed to create the software and copy-protection schemes to be used in the compromise disc format. If true, this means that Toshiba would author the code that tells disc drives how to read and write the data encoded on the discs.

But despite the Nikkei Journal article, both Sony and Toshiba have issued statements denying that any agreement has been reached. "We are still continuing our discussions for a unified disc format that will benefit our users," said a Sony spokesperson. "Although a single format would be ideal, there has been no significant progress since [the last coverage by the media on] April 21. There has been absolutely no decision made for the 0.1mm [Blu-ray] format to be adopted [for the unified next-generation disc standard]."

"At this point," said a Toshiba spokesperson, "nothing has been decided, and absolutely no decision has been made for unification on any basis. The indication that a unification agreement on the basis of a 0.1mm disc system is imminent is unfounded and erroneous. Given this, Toshiba does not intend to make any proposal on unification to the members of the HD-DVD Promotion Group."

Both Toshiba's HD-DVD and Sony's Blu-ray formats have been gearing up for battle since 2002. The formats have since divided the film, software, and game industries for what was expected to be a holy war between the two formats. In February, it was announced that Sony and Toshiba were meeting to discuss the creation of a compromise disc format that would avert such a war and prevent format war akin to the Betamax-versus-VHS video cassette conflict in the 1980s.

Sony and Toshiba have both acknowledged that a uniform standard is essential for market penetration. Media outlets, including GameSpot, had reported last month that the two companies were close to making a deal, but as yet, none has been announced.

Both Sony's and Toshiba's next-generation discs use blue lasers to read and write the data. Until now, most reflective disc technology has relied on red lasers, but that color has a relatively large wavelength (605 nanometers) when compared to colors further down the spectrum. Blue lasers offer a wavelength of only 405 nanometers, allowing the bumps that make up the ones and zeros on a disc's surface to be smaller than those on a red laser-read disc.

Sony's Blu-ray discs are said to offer 25GB of storage space in their single-layer form and are supported by MGM, Sony Pictures, and Disney, although Disney's agreement with Sony is nonexclusive. Blu-ray discs are also designed to work with the PlayStation 3.

Toshiba's HD-DVD format can hold 15GB of information in a single layer. The format is supported by Paramount Pictures, Warner Bros., and New Line Cinema. While some rumors say the Xbox 360 will use HD-DVDs, no announcement has been made about the console's media format.

By Staff -- GameSpot
POSTED: 05/10/05 01:10 PM PST

[the legendary ice man]

I thought Xenon was still using Double Layer DVD's.

[Junox50]

I thought Xenon was still using Double Layer DVD's.

It apprently is. The article said it was just a rumor that microsoft is going to use HD-DVD.

[Domination]

I don't believe this news not one bit. With common knowledgeable sense, I'm tell you that Sony and Toshiba are playing the nVidia/Sony game with the media to direct the attention away from them. I'm sure something leaked out that neither side meant to happen. Now, they're trying to cover it up.

Just imagine it for a second, Sony is using a higher capacity format in their next console to leap frog over the competition. Microsoft doesn't launch their console until late this year, and Nintendo is launching right side of Sony, as rumors predict. Either competitor, not including Sony, could easily implement this technology into their console before launch and negate Sony's advantge IF they knew it was a gauranteed deal that the format would be final before time, cheaper to produce, and a 98% chance of it succeeding on the market. If I were in their shoes, I would have done the samething.

[gnznroses]

i think the reports of the unification will end up true, but it doesn't really matter. if they stay seperate blu-ray will win because of the large user base ps3 will have. if they do merge tho, and do it real soon like, i wonder if MS would put a blu-ray drive in the x360, or stay with regular dvd. if they go with the bluray, that'd be pretty funny, cause it's been hyped for a long time now by sony. and if they keep regular dvd then the're full of shit when they brag about the "hd era"...

[the legendary ice man]

Toshiba are pushing HD-DVD storage up.

Tri-layer is their current level.

[Mordecai]

Blu-Ray still has faster transfer rates and still has more overall storage capacity. Blu-Ray is still the winner! :D

[TidusX]

Sony holds much of the technology rights to BluRay so I doubt they will let MS use it for the 360. Talks are underway but no set thing has come out.

[Z]

X2 will use standard DVD.

BD can reach 8 layers to reach a shocking capacity of 200G! that is aside of more capabilities that HD_DVD doesn’t even have like online interactions and what not. There is simply no comparison between BD and HD-DVD.

The ‘only’ advantage for HD-DVD is price. It only requires little adjustments to current DVD production methods and will cost a little extra. But that is a very disappointing near-sighted way of thinking. We are not ‘beefing up’ current platforms. We are using totally new technology. It is time that we moved on. We don’t want to loose much just to end up with something not as practical in a few years time. We want something that will take on what’s coming for along and more reliable time line.

This is nothing to do with Sony or anyone else. This is purely judging who is the better and more advance platform that we should adopt for the future. I don’t care if Daffy Duck invented BD as long as it is - by far- the better technology.

[verticalslik]

from what ive been reading, blu-ray disks have seemed to be ruled out, as these disks limit the capabilities if they were to use them, yea they hold a sh!t load of data, but there are limits, and i think HD-DVD will rule the best for these kind of systems

[Z]

from what ive been reading, blu-ray disks have seemed to be ruled out, as these disks limit the capabilities if they were to use them, yea they hold a sh!t load of data, but there are limits, and i think HD-DVD will rule the best for these kind of systems
limits? BD is limited compared to HD-DVD?
I think too much spinning has gotten you off track.

[F089/H]

Someone will answer my question!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:

If you have companies out their like EA and Rockstar..If you have 2 different formats of a medium (discs) like for X2 we have HD-DVD wich will hold somewhere of about 15-25 gigs and for the PS3 we have whatever maybe Blu-ray you get 50GB.Hella lot of difference in terms of capacity! :twisted:

Say EA makes a NFS,which it does happen to have one in devfor X2,How can they make it for atleast 2 of the next-gen consoles? SERIOUS compromises here
Hopefully someone will answer this ..The future for games might be like a war or something???:twisted:

[Handycrap101]

I cant answer your question but rumors have been going around that Xbox has scrapped using the Dual-layered DVD and has switched to the almighty CD-ROM.

[xbdestroya]

Someone will answer my question!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: :evil:

If you have companies out their like EA and Rockstar..If you have 2 different formats of a medium (discs) like for X2 we have HD-DVD wich will hold somewhere of about 15-25 gigs and for the PS3 we have whatever maybe Blu-ray you get 50GB.Hella lot of difference in terms of capacity! :twisted:

Say EA makes a NFS,which it does happen to have one in devfor X2,How can they make it for atleast 2 of the next-gen consoles? SERIOUS compromises here
Hopefully someone will answer this ..The future for games might be like a war or something???:twisted:

Well, the easy answer is they put the game on the system with lower capacity media onto two or more discs.

[Mordecai]

Putting certain games onto 2 discs is ABSOLUTELY NOT feasible... for example, can you imagine putting Madden 2006 on 2 discs? "We're sorry, you cannot play those 2 teams on this field because they are on different discs, please choose a different field"... The XBOX 1.5 will seriously be limiting what devs can do on certain games because they won't have as much storage... PS3 will have the ability for higher resolution textures and more of them, so I see this as a big advantage for the PS3 this gen.

[xbdestroya]

Putting certain games onto 2 discs is ABSOLUTELY NOT feasible... for example, can you imagine putting Madden 2006 on 2 discs? "We're sorry, you cannot play those 2 teams on this field because they are on different discs, please choose a different field"... The XBOX 1.5 will seriously be limiting what devs can do on certain games because they won't have as much storage... PS3 will have the ability for higher resolution textures and more of them, so I see this as a big advantage for the PS3 this gen.

That is a very good point Mordecaii, but at the same time, a game like Madden is exactly the kind of game that would never come close to using that level of storage.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big blu-ray fan, but other than the lack of HD-movie playback on a next-gen format, I just don't see how games-wise Microsoft will suffer for the lack of it.

At the same time though, I think Sony will benefit from the blu-ray player inclusion, or that of whatever victorius format gets adopted.

[Mordecai]

Well, here's an example... EQ2, an MMO on the PC, uses 10 CD's or 2 DVD's... it's another game where you couldn't swap out discs in the middle of it. And the thing is, next-gen will be using even more textures with higher quality than that. So I actually do see this as being a problem, and I think it will limit devs on some things... I think we'll be able to see some games done on PS3 that can't be done on XBOX 360... Much like Morrowind couldn't have been done on the PS2. Huge RPG's like that will not be able to have discs swapped out.

[the legendary ice man]

EQ2 is an absolutely massive game though ;)

[Mordecai]

EQ2 isn't nearly as big in terms of landmass as EQ1, and plus the textures and the voicework take up tons of space... If Microsoft wants all the bells and whistles on their games, they're going to need more than one DVD for some of the larger games, and for some games it just won't work. All I'm pointing out is that this WILL be a disadvantage for XBOX 1.5 on some games. :)

[verticalslik]

from what ive been reading, blu-ray disks have seemed to be ruled out, as these disks limit the capabilities if they were to use them, yea they hold a sh!t load of data, but there are limits, and i think HD-DVD will rule the best for these kind of systems
limits? BD is limited compared to HD-DVD?
I think too much spinning has gotten you off track.
im saying the drive itself in the ps3, it will only be limited to playing blu-ray disks. no dvds, cds. unless sony coaxes u into buying blu-ray movies and sh!t for way more $

[Rallyracr420]

from what ive been reading, blu-ray disks have seemed to be ruled out, as these disks limit the capabilities if they were to use them, yea they hold a sh!t load of data, but there are limits, and i think HD-DVD will rule the best for these kind of systems
limits? BD is limited compared to HD-DVD?
I think too much spinning has gotten you off track.
im saying the drive itself in the ps3, it will only be limited to playing blu-ray disks. no dvds, cds. unless sony coaxes u into buying blu-ray movies and sh!t for way more $The current Blu-Ray read head already reads DVDs and CDs

[Z]

there isn’t a problem in releasing a game on the two new formats if both do indeed end up appearing separately. A publisher that wants to release a game on both of them just needs to utilize the game on the platform with the lesser capacity - HD-DVD. Then, they will just port it and code it for BD.
But this isn’t the question here, what is is that PS3 is looking to be the only console with a new platform. Since X2 will be using everyday DVD, there is a strong chance Rev will follow suit. If that happens, you can bet that any game that truly begins to exploits BD’s potential will never appear on another console. You may have a stripped down version for the other two, but it won’t have the same ‘umph’.

I think Rev will actually use BD as well just to have another advantage over X2. if so, X2 will be even in further trouble.