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View Full Version : Xbox 2 = Dreamcast, PlayStation 3 = PS2.



clc1986
07-22-2004, 04:07 PM
what happened with the Dreamcast i can see happening with the Xbox 2. Xbox 2 is going to out before PS3 and when the PS3 does come out its going to steal all Xbox 2's fame. that nearly happened with the PS2 but PS2 was to strong to beat, to prove this do you remeber when there were rumors going around that Sony were to release PS3 the year after the Xbox, i know it was just a rumor butyou get the idea...

I dont see N5 (Revolution) being a competition. I see N5 just doing its thing, not really bothered about the console war.

All bets on PlayStation 3 to win the next console war...

Gegenki
07-22-2004, 04:34 PM
the dreamcast wasnt too popular. Some of my friends are thinking of getting the xbox2 because they already have the xbox, none of them are switching to PS.

Also one of my friends is changing to xbox because its out so long before PS3. I'm not sure xbox 2 is just gonna fade away

julps31
07-22-2004, 05:51 PM
Yeah I feel that the x-box will have an advantage being released first just like the PS2. The Saturn wasn't a huge success so its only natural that its succesor wouldn't be that famous and hyped. So I feel the x-box will sell well just like the PS3 and the rivalry will continue.

Deadmeat
07-22-2004, 06:49 PM
Bad analogy.

Dreamcast died not because of its own flaw, but because of depleted cash reserve of Sega.

On the other hand, we are looking at Microsoft which is able to give back $75 billion to its shareholders and still have tens of billions left over. For them, $1 billion/year loss on Xbox is nothing. MS will lose close to $7 billion over the life-span of Xbox1/2. Yet it is a mission accomplished if "MS takes Sony" as predicted by Ballmer.

On the other hand, SCEI has to resort to bond issuing to raise the cash needed for its fabs... There is no way SCEI can last against MS for 10 years. MS can afford to lose billions and still walk away a winner, SCEI can't...

The whole Japanese console industry never faced an enemy as formidable and vicious as Microsoft..... This is why the Xbox domination is a matter of not if but when...

Swordmaster Jehuty
07-22-2004, 07:17 PM
Yeah, but that's only because M$ exploits us with their Windows. The common household that just buys a brand pc such as HP, Packard Bell or Dell also have to pay for the installed Windows OS, it's included in the price. There are more common households then those with a "computer wizz-kid".

Ress Cor
07-22-2004, 07:23 PM
I predict most people, in the 20's and up age bracket will own 2 consoles, X-Box Next and PS3. Will X-Box Next be good? Probably, although I will most likely have a PC by that time that beats X-Box Next into the ground, so really it is not worth my time to own an X-Box Next.

PS2 was a joke, much like the original PSOne, PS2 was almost an experiment with little competition, now Sony has to deal with Microsoft! PS3 will be no joke, it will have power to boot, games better then ever before, and most likely include features that will make X-Box Next dated (remember, Sony will have a year to see what the X-Box Next has on it, and then will counter it)

Sony is not messing around this time, this is war for them.

kevindenoyette
07-22-2004, 07:40 PM
That's bullshit though. Microsoft won't keep on developing consoles if they just keep on losing money in the business. their aim isn't to lose 20 billion dollars, they want to make money, doesn't really matter where or how. If their next x box's sales get dwarfed by the ps3's, they probably won't release a third console.

Kevyn Grams
07-22-2004, 07:57 PM
I don`t know why you guys are so sure of the NX coming out before the PS3 for. If you have been paying attintion to next years E3 MS is the only one of the big three that have not yet annonced that there system will be there. Both Sony and the big N have already announced their systems will be there, plus Sony has aslo hinted at info on the PS3 at the Tokyo Game convetion this september. So lets not jump the gun and say the Xbox next is going the be first out of the gates.

games_ fan
07-22-2004, 08:17 PM
They might have not anounced the Xenon will be at next years e3 but I think they have said that it will be out in 2005.

Gegenki
07-22-2004, 08:20 PM
That's bullshit though. Microsoft won't keep on developing consoles if they just keep on losing money in the business. their aim isn't to lose 20 billion dollars, they want to make money, doesn't really matter where or how. If their next x box's sales get dwarfed by the ps3's, they probably won't release a third console.

He's right you know. At the beginning of the Xbox project, they would have said:

Xbox is designed to make (making up this figure) $1bill in the finacial year.
The Xbox budget is $3Bill
With a $1Bill overdraft.

If the overdraft limit is broken,
Or the xbox does not meet the minimum amount specified per year
the Xbox project will be shut down

Gegenki
07-22-2004, 08:29 PM
Yeah, but that's only because M$ exploits us with their Windows. The common household that just buys a brand pc such as HP, Packard Bell or Dell also have to pay for the installed Windows OS, it's included in the price. There are more common households then those with a "computer wizz-kid".

It's true but thats because Windows is the most:

well known
well advertised
anthetically pleasing (good to look at)
easy to use.

I got linux and windows on my system. What do you think I'm using right now? Windows is so much easier.

LINUX
Download the drivers for this device.
----wiating for it to download......
Goto website.

To install this type in this command
install rpm-linuxatiradeon3.7.2.rpm
Make sure you are root.
Put in this command to come out of grpahical mode !£%!£$£$
Put in this command to configure. $%^"%^
Follow the instructions. If there is an error use these commands to return
£^%"£$^$&£!
"£^"£$^"%^$
"£$%"£$^$%£"




WINDOWS

I get a new graphics card, slap it in, turn on the computer. Install it -
on the cd it says

ATI RADEON 9600 DRIVERS

install, follow step by step instructions. (in other words keep pressing next)
RESTART

DONE!

(and in the unlikely event of an error)
you press F8 on start up and press start using last known good configurations

Deadmeat
07-22-2004, 08:39 PM
That's bullshit though. Microsoft won't keep on developing consoles if they just keep on losing money in the business.
Never heard of Netscape and AOL??? MS poured billions into IE and MSN even though they haven't made a dime from it. Why? Because eliminating competition can be profitable in the long run and secures MS's platform dominance. Eliminating competition is what MS does best, and they have a track record to prove they could.


their aim isn't to lose 20 billion dollars, they want to make money
No, the goal of Xbox is to eliminate any potential candidate to a rival operating system/platform.

Since SCEI has been pushing PSX2 as the home server platform, it has been marked for elimination by Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer.


If their next x box's sales get dwarfed by the ps3's, they probably won't release a third console.
MS will slow down its console release only after all its competition has been eliminated.

imported_The_One
07-22-2004, 08:40 PM
That's bullshit though. Microsoft won't keep on developing consoles if they just keep on losing money in the business. their aim isn't to lose 20 billion dollars, they want to make money, doesn't really matter where or how. If their next x box's sales get dwarfed by the ps3's, they probably won't release a third console.
M$ looks for the "short term loss, long term gain" scenario. They don't care if they lose 10Billion, as long as Sony is gone, they can earn all the money they ever want with no competition, Big N will not be a competition if they actually manage to take down Sony.
What you said about the their aim is correct, they're AIM isn't to lose money, but they CAN sustain loss.

Sony is not messing around this time, this is war for them. Nicely said Ress Cor.

On the other hand, SCEI has to resort to bond issuing to raise the cash needed for its fabs... There is no way SCEI can last against MS for 10 years. MS can afford to lose billions and still walk away a winner, SCEI can't... That's the thing... M$ can't last 10 years against Sony. Sony won't lose any money and they WILL walk away the winner once M$ gives up... It's just a matter of time before M$ realizes it's own flaws and change battle tactics, but by then, it may already be too late for them.
They've already tried releaseing later then PS2, which obviously did not work. Now they're trying to release before PS3, will it work? Who knows, it's anyone's guess. If it doesn't work, then M$ is out of ideas, except one last gambit: Releasing at the same time and hope that Billy Goats holds the bigger poker hand.
So you see, M$ CAN sustain loss, but loss will be meaning less unless they complete their objective. Ever played games which puts you in the same scenario? I'm sure you have, so I'm sure you get the idea.

PS2 was a joke, much like the original PSOne, PS2 was almost an experiment with little competition, now Sony has to deal with Microsoft! Exactly, Sony aren't idoits. They who they're dealing with, and they know what to do. The same applies to M$, so it's more or less on the console's game now.
If one console outsells the other like what we've seen this gen, then say "bye-bye" to the loser of the battle. I believe the War won't end if M$ or Sony loses, I'm sure both of them would come back for another round even if they lose this current round. Remember, Sony and M$ doesn't RELY on the console market, unlike Big N. Sony is one of the biggest electronic distributers, and M$ is THE biggest OS producer. So none of the two corporations are a joke.
@Deadmeat: You seem to have forgotten, Sony IS a multi-BILLION dollar company also, not a mere multi-million dollar company. On top of that, they OWN MGM, Columbia Tristar, and some other entertainment related junks.
They can simply sell franchise license if they run low on money. The reason why they're not selling franchise license is to obtain exclusive games for the PS3, such as James Bond (you'd be surprised at the amount of James Bond game fans out there.... It's figure is so huge that it's utterly disturbing :?).
Now, this takes us to another point, games.
People buys the console for the games (usually), not necessarily the specs. Simply because the "Average Joe" doesn't know too much about console specs, but more about the games. With both Xenon and PS3 both being powerful (not equally, just like how XBox was more powerful then PS2, but both of them were powerful console in its own rights), the games featured on the consoles will ultimately decide the console's fate. Generally speaking, the more games, the better; but it's also no good to have loads of crap. So both corporations are currently seeking out to gain exclusive rights to "future Greatest Hits". Or at least developers who has produced a Greatest Hits game before.
It seems like Sony has got a powerful ally this round: Guerrila (Sorry, can't spell their name).
While M$ might also get a powerful ally to boost their Japanese sales: Square Enix.
While nothing is confirmed, sources are pointing towards that Square Enix WILL go multi-platform, which is good for them and also for M$... Not too great for Sony, who previously had all FF7+ series developed on their console.

Judging from the facts, it's hard to say whether M$'s "release first" strategy will work or not. But one thing is for sure, it'll be one intense battle this up coming round...

kevindenoyette
07-22-2004, 08:43 PM
That's just false information, and you know it. The chances that microsoft will ever eliminate competition in the console market like Sony and Nintendo are very, very slim. We all know this, and so do they.


Your netscape/aol analogy is just wrong because microsoft dominate that market. they have the most used OS and internet browser.

Microsoft didn't enter the console market with the aim of reigning it in a few years, that's ludicrious. They just wanted a piece of the console pie, and so far, they got about a crumb. They might get a slice, but never the entire cake....erm...yeah.


EDIT: this was posted before i saw your post, The_one, so it's directed at deadmeat, not you.

Gegenki
07-22-2004, 08:51 PM
That's just false information, and you know it. The chances that microsoft will ever eliminate competition in the console market like Sony and Nintendo are very, very slim. We all know this, and so do they.


Your netscape/aol analogy is just wrong because microsoft dominate that market. they have the most used OS and internet browser.

Microsoft didn't enter the console market with the aim of reigning it in a few years, that's ludicrious. They just wanted a piece of the console pie, and so far, they got about a crumb. They might get a slice, but never the entire cake....erm...yeah.


EDIT: this was posted before i saw your post, The_one, so it's directed at deadmeat, not you.

lol, you tell em.

There is no way microsoft will be able to eliminate the competition. What will happen if they eliminate sony (which won't happen because so many people thing the Xbox is evil, and so many other people are just going for the more powerful system),
they gonna change their strategy to aim at the younger audience so they can get rid of nintendo too???


And anyway, if sony did go under, i bet there would be a huge riot, hehe

Deadmeat
07-22-2004, 08:52 PM
Bill Gate's Kill List

1. WordPerfect
2. Lotus 1-2-3
3. IBM OS/2
4. Novell Netware
5. Netscape
6. Palm
7. Playstation 3

imported_The_One
07-22-2004, 08:58 PM
Bill Gate's Kill List

1. WordPerfect
2. Lotus 1-2-3
3. IBM OS/2
4. Novell Netware
5. Netscape
6. Palm
7. Playstation 3You missed one: Open Office :lol:. It has the capabilities of office, but it's open source... How nice ;).
Oh, that reminds me, it's also trying to kill Linux. Man, if you subscribe to business magazines such as Business Week, you'd see LOADS of anti-Linux ads posted by Microsoft... It's crazy. Although half the time, the magazine has articles on Linux, so the ad is basically in vain :P.

NickSCFC
07-22-2004, 08:58 PM
I hope that Xbox Next outsells PlayStation 3 and Sony go out of business.

Illmatic
07-22-2004, 08:59 PM
Really the only reason the xbox sold,was because it was the most powerfull console,the majority of people that buy consoles,aren't that clued up on them,they would of heard through word of mouth or from retailers that it was more powerful than the PS2,Therfore those people would have come to the conclusion that it is the best,

The average consumer wants power,When PS2 was released everyone had a reason to buy one,PSone was good and had great games and naturally the PS2 would too,and it was the most powerfull console (for a short time),when the Xbox was released no one had a reason to buy it,no console background,no killer app franchises,so why would people by an Xbox,because it's got more grunt.This time round the roles are reversed but Sony already has a much larger fan base than Xbox,but now Xbox has a fanbase,and Sony will have the most powerful console,great games and everyones friend will have one and realise this and then bling,bling $$$$PS3$$$$,$$$$PS4$$$$.
PS3 is gonna rip away the only thing xbox had going for them.[/b]

imported_The_One
07-22-2004, 09:01 PM
I hope that Xbox Next outsells PlayStation 3 and Sony go out of business. Of course, that's what Ballmer wants too.
Personally, I couldn't care less who'd dominant. But competition is good, without it, people go lazy. So if M$ reigned supreme like they are in the OS market, they'll start slipping and producing crap consoles, just like their crap OS, Windows.... One reason why my Sig makes sense...

NickSCFC
07-22-2004, 09:04 PM
I was taking the piss out of this joke of a thread! Let me be moderator, and I shall rule this place with an iron fist :x

imported_The_One
07-22-2004, 09:14 PM
I was taking the piss out of this joke of a thread! Let me be moderator, and I shall rule this place with an iron fist :x Ah, okay. So what you said was a joke eh? Didn't sound like one... seeing as how you ARE a Pro-Microsoft kinda guy.
Now, about you being a moderator... Can we just leave it at a "No"?
Seeing YOU rule with an iron fist is more disturbing then seeing a gorilla doing a human.... Well, maybe not... But that's the impression I get from your posts :P. Sorry if I offended, I obviously didn't mean to.

Domination
07-22-2004, 09:16 PM
Bad analogy.

Dreamcast died not because of its own flaw, but because of depleted cash reserve of Sega.

On the other hand, we are looking at Microsoft which is able to give back $75 billion to its shareholders and still have tens of billions left over. For them, $1 billion/year loss on Xbox is nothing. MS will lose close to $7 billion over the life-span of Xbox1/2. Yet it is a mission accomplished if "MS takes Sony" as predicted by Ballmer.

On the other hand, SCEI has to resort to bond issuing to raise the cash needed for its fabs... There is no way SCEI can last against MS for 10 years. MS can afford to lose billions and still walk away a winner, SCEI can't...

The whole Japanese console industry never faced an enemy as formidable and vicious as Microsoft..... This is why the Xbox domination is a matter of not if but when...

I agree that Dreamcast died out due to the lack of cash,but if Microsoft continues to keep losing money the way they are while giving their product away for free,eventually they will die out as well.Don't confuse the thought of large pockets equaling more money to throw away.Money is still an issue for Microsoft,that is why they are cutting cost.

When compared to one another,you speak as if Sony is a million dollar company.They,too,are multi billionaires.Combine this with their knowledge and they can get their products a lot cheaper than Microsoft.They have already faced Microsoft once.One more generation and that will equal ten years.Are you telling me they won't survive?

Concerning culture,I don't think Microsoft has faced such a competitor -- not to mention them supporting a product that couldn't establish a profit.

imported_The_One
07-22-2004, 09:37 PM
A few good points Domination... I should've thought of those and put it in my uber long post of mine... :P
Anyways, at the current point, It's really hard to say if M$'s strategy will work or not. Most likely, it may very well work and gain some sale, but that doesn't mean people won't buy a PS3.
I'm personally thinking of getting a Xenon to tide me over until PS3 comes out, which would give them 1 more sales to add. So the sales of the Xenon will increase exponentially.

rev>thanu
07-22-2004, 09:48 PM
not a chance in the world that sony will go bankrupt if the ps3 fails. like the_one said sony is a multi-billion dollar company just like microsoft. what? just look sony is willing to pay 5 billion to have the majority of the shares at mgm and also they invested 4 billion only on research for the cell and building the plants to create the chips. that's not including the investments on the xdram licenses etc. sony must have almost the same amount of cash reserves as microsoft.

also in case you guys didn't know sony is entirely is worth 60 billion dollars.

also these guys think microsoft is going to win hell no. you say they have all these cash reserves. hello they do run out, they just wasted 1.2 billion on xbox to guarantee it stays alive and still counting. then there is the issue that microsoft isn't safe at all, they already lost 1 million subscribers of msn in like 4 months time period and linux is now picking up steam and kicking microsoft in the ASS.

anyways why you think they are experimenting with different markets, because they know that in the long run their numbers will be up. they are now invading the cell phone industry, by releasing a smart phone. so please really microsoft is worring. also why you think XNA is in the making too. lol and sony is making one to battle it out with XNA and will also invade computers. according to what i read here, this software that sony is making will have some of the most advance tools and will include tools that are used on big budget movies, like the matrix, spider man etc.

also some poeple here say that xbox might be good now. that's because those guys are graphics whores. once they see that ps3 is more advanced, has better graphics etc. they will probably turn away from it . To tell you the truth that's the reason why the xbox consoles actually sell. but japanese gamers can careless because they go for what matters and that's the content the console will provide. so really the only thing microsoft had it going for this gen was the graphics take that away and alot of fans will turn away from it.

also what makes these guys think sony will loose. They are coming out with psp next year and they have it there as a back up in case of no cash flow coming in. also what makes you think that after two console wars won sony will do something stupid like nintendo and mess it up. so really playstation fans will stay ps fans as long as in each console wars sony acts with the same strategy. also what makes you guys so sure that microsoft will have such a huge advantage over sony even if they had the head start.

here are the facts why.
you will not see
a true final fantasy game on any microsoft console. you might see rehashes like crystal chronicles but never the main ones.
sony renewed their rockstar contract. so you will definetely not see any GTA on xbox 2 until ps3 comes out and then 1 year later. also you will not see any metal gear game on xbox coming first on it. very doubtfull. it didn't happen with dreamcast. there is also other games like kingdom hearts etc. so really people are going to want to pick up were they left off. sure xbox 2 might come with splinter cell 4, halo 3, project gotham 3 ( might i add the crappiest imitation of the GT series). but really microsoft in terms of games only dominates the first person shooter genre(soon to be thrown by sony with killzone). then sony has the best games for every other genre. also another reason xbox sells is because apparently the majority of US gamers like the FPS genre better. so really once sony builds a stronger hold on that microsoft will go down.

plus there is the chance that once MGM belongs to sony you will not see james bond games on any other console.

deadmeat yes microsoft is good at eliminating competitors but not this time. i'm affraid their time is up. this time they are getting attacked from every angle possibly imaginable.

gegenki i also heard linux doesn't freeze or has as many errors as windows and that is much cheaper too. also don't worrie once the cell is out i bet sony will change all that about linux.

THE_ONE yes that's how you spell guerrilla games. is the spanish word for WAR. also don't get your hopes up either. i read that ps2 sales tripled since the it's price drop. :lol:

really sony is the leading company in innovation. they made the flat pannel TV, the walkman, they basically own hollywood, they have some of the best electronics, they made blue ray CDs, etc. really sony is staying were they at. they have innovation up to their heads and plus they basically have at least a product in every entertainment possibly imaginable.

also that investment on the cell came from SCEI and sony electronics and not SONY corporation it self. the company has many branches and each branch acts as if they were a separate company. each with their own cash reserves. but still they are part of one big company. so that 4 billion dollar investment came from the profits and royalties made from ps1 and hhalf of what the has made and still making ps2.

Ress Cor
07-22-2004, 10:36 PM
I hope that Xbox Next outsells PlayStation 3 and Sony go out of business.

I think its time Nick got banned. Or I can re-educate him, just give me 1 hour in a room with him alone, he'll come out a good little boy :twisted:

ultimategamer2004
07-22-2004, 10:42 PM
Yeah well thats a statement to many aint it you just dont go around saying that Nick! Anyways either we should be on topic or this will be on topic!

Gegenki
07-22-2004, 10:49 PM
If sony uses Blue Ray, developers will either be able to put plenty of detail into the games, or make them mega long.
About 50gig per disk as apposed to 4.7.
Also lets not forget that games could see a price drop as sony have created the Paper CD. 51% paper (Don't ask me how)

Lets all remember the Dark Sector Video (www.darksector.com). Based on next gen console specs.
If sony attain those graphics coupled with the exclusives games they will blow MS out of the water plain and simple.

My mum nearly brought me an Xbox because the guy in game said it is more powerful

kevindenoyette
07-22-2004, 10:53 PM
paper CD? 51 procent PAPER?


Elaborate, someone, now!

ultimategamer2004
07-22-2004, 10:55 PM
Sony made a paper disk a few months back! I would like loads of detail..

Thats what guys in Game say! Or most of them.

Gegenki
07-22-2004, 10:58 PM
The site where i got the info doesnt seem to archive their news

www.cex.co.uk

It said the CD made of Paper.

I thought oh wow.

Turns out its made 51% of paper and 49% of plastic. Its much better than normal cd's becuase you can bend them, and they are cheaper.

ultimategamer2004
07-22-2004, 11:00 PM
Yeah but Matt made a thread about it aswell thats where i first heard.

Deadmeat
07-22-2004, 11:06 PM
Comparing MS's fiance to Sony's fiances is ridiculous.

MS has zero debt, maintains a 88% profit margin on Windows and Office(Better than a drug dealer's margin), has too much cash so they are unloading them onto their shareholders($75 billion in cash plus $25 billion in share buyback), and can afford to lose $7 billion on its console business and not blink.

Sony's net valuation is like only $5 billion after subtracting their debts from their asset, makes in a year what MS makes in three weeks, and is quickly losing its competitiveness in its core electronics market to Samsung, is under a heavy restructuring, and needs to burrow money to invest its fab because its cash reserve has dried up.

It's truely the battle between a prince and a pauper.

Gegenki
07-22-2004, 11:14 PM
Comparing MS's fiance to Sony's fiances is ridiculous.

MS has zero debt, maintains a 88% profit margin on Windows and Office(Better than a drug dealer's margin), has too much cash so they are unloading them onto their shareholders($75 billion in cash plus $25 billion in share buyback), and can afford to lose $7 billion on its console business and not blink.

Sony's net valuation is like only $5 billion after subtracting their debts from their asset, makes in a year what MS makes in three weeks, and is quickly losing its competitiveness in its core electronics market to Samsung, is under a heavy restructuring, and needs to burrow money to invest its fab because its cash reserve has dried up.

It's truely the battle between a prince and a pauper.

BUT:

If sony manage to make a desent OS and manage to make a good set of API's in competition against XNA they may be able to start pulling better profeits.

But i guess its time to come to terms with my worst nightmare.
Good things don't last forever.
But sony will last a little longer :D

I bet in the future. The whole world will be taken over by microsoft.

Either way, I think we are starting to loop in the conversation. Infact we never even got anywhere. We are right a square one.

What does the Xbox2 have that the PS3 doesnt.
anyone?

What has the PS3 got that the Xbox2 hasn't???

rev>thanu
07-22-2004, 11:32 PM
Comparing MS's fiance to Sony's fiances is ridiculous.

MS has zero debt, maintains a 88% profit margin on Windows and Office(Better than a drug dealer's margin), has too much cash so they are unloading them onto their shareholders($75 billion in cash plus $25 billion in share buyback), and can afford to lose $7 billion on its console business and not blink.

Sony's net valuation is like only $5 billion after subtracting their debts from their asset, makes in a year what MS makes in three weeks, and is quickly losing its competitiveness in its core electronics market to Samsung, is under a heavy restructuring, and needs to burrow money to invest its fab because its cash reserve has dried up.

It's truely the battle between a prince and a pauper.

sure deadmeat. that's why sony is trying to buy MGM for 5 billion and that's why they invested on the cell over 4billion and that's why they invested on psp too right and then you say they are in full of debt. that's why sony is also making a direct x type of software for ps3. so please who you trying to fool. sony has cash to invest.

kevindenoyette
07-22-2004, 11:39 PM
"The first thing you will notice is that Microsoft has $31.6 billion in cash and short term investments."

I found that so fast on google it's not even funny, sorry, but there goes your credibility about all numbers.

Gegenki
07-22-2004, 11:39 PM
Comparing MS's fiance to Sony's fiances is ridiculous.

MS has zero debt, maintains a 88% profit margin on Windows and Office(Better than a drug dealer's margin), has too much cash so they are unloading them onto their shareholders($75 billion in cash plus $25 billion in share buyback), and can afford to lose $7 billion on its console business and not blink.

Sony's net valuation is like only $5 billion after subtracting their debts from their asset, makes in a year what MS makes in three weeks, and is quickly losing its competitiveness in its core electronics market to Samsung, is under a heavy restructuring, and needs to burrow money to invest its fab because its cash reserve has dried up.

It's truely the battle between a prince and a pauper.

sure deadmeat. that's why sony is trying to buy MGM for 5 billion and that's why they invested on the cell over 4billion and that's why they invested on psp too right and then you say they are in full of debt. that's why sony is also making a direct x type of software for ps3. so please who you trying to fool. sony has cash to invest.

I found this if it helps and if anyone can understand it http://money.cnn.com/news/companies/research/research.html?pg=sn&symb=SNE

Deadmeat
07-22-2004, 11:57 PM
Tuesday, December 02, 2003

TOKYO - Electronics and entertainment conglomerate Sony Corp issued a 220 billion yen ($2.0 billion) in euroyen convertible bonds on Monday to raise cash to invest in next-generation microchips and devices.

The bond issue will be Sony's largest since a 300 billion yen domestic convertible bond in 1996 and the biggest by a Japanese company since Fujitsu Ltd, Japan's largest computer maker, unveiled a 250 billion yen issue in May of last year.

In October, Sony unveiled a restructuring plan that will reduce its workforce by 13 percent, or 20,000 jobs, over the next three years and focus on cutting-edge semiconductors as it overhauls its struggling electronics business.

Sony plans to invest 500 billion yen over the next three years in semiconductors, including research and development for a high-powered microprocessor codenamed "cell" that it is developing with Toshiba Corp and IBM.

Analysts expect the chip to power Sony's next-generation game console, but the company aims to make "cell" the global standard for consumer electronics in the high-speed Internet era.

"Looking at our strategy and our cash flow, we feel that this capital procurement amount is appropriate for our growth," Chief Financial Officer Takao Yuhara told reporters, adding that Sony could cover its restructuring costs and remaining investments from its cash flow.

The five-year convertible bond does not carry a coupon and matures on December 18, 2008. It will be priced 2.5 percent above par. The offering is for 220 billion yen with a greenshoe option for an additional 30 billion yen.

Sony has set a conversion premium -- the percentage by which the conversion price exceeds the current share price -- at 47.5 percent above Monday's market close of 3,800 yen. That puts the conversion price at 5,605 yen.

DILUTION FEARS

Investors will not be allowed to convert the bonds into shares unless the share price reaches 110 percent of the conversion price for a certain period of time.

Under U.S. accounting rules, dilution of shares is not recognized until the conversion takes place.

In London, Sony's shares fell to 3,685 yen, as of 1600 GMT, down 3.0 percent from the Tokyo close.

If the entire 250 billion yen in bonds were converted into equity, the new shares issued would come to less than five percent of Sony's total shares outstanding. Initially, the bond will inflate Sony's net debt of about 770 billion yen.

Convertible issues are often seen as negative for a company's shares as they dilute per-share values if investors take up the conversion option.

Sony officials said the high premium allowed the company to procure capital at low cost without much worry about dilution, due to the difficult conversion conditions. Investors, on the other hand, were not so sure it was a win-win proposition.

"I don't know why Sony would issue such an unattractive CB. The amount is huge. It will not be good for the CB market," said Kazunori Ohtomo, senior fund manager at STB Asset Management.

For the three years to March 2006, Sony has earmarked restructuring charges of 335 billion yen for its electronics division, which accounts for 65 percent of consolidated revenue.

One of the pillars of Sony's restructuring plan is the convergence of its core business areas -- creating links between its consumer electronics products and its music, movies and games -- with network-enabled chips connecting hardware and software.

The issue is the latest funding move by Japanese electronics makers after NEC Corp said last month it planned to raise nearly $2 billion to repair its balance sheet and for capital spending. Investment banks Merrill Lynch & Co Inc and Goldman Sachs are joint lead managers for the bond issue.
Sony has such a deep pocket that they have to resort to $2 billion bond issuing to build the fab....


"The first thing you will notice is that Microsoft has $31.6 billion in cash and short term investments."
Then where does the remaining $44 billion in cash payout to MS shareholders come from???? Of course MS has stashed away far more money in "long-term" investments; those yield better.

Deadmeat
07-23-2004, 12:06 AM
http://www.hoovers.com/sony/--ID__41885--/free-co-fin-quarterly.xhtml

Ok, the total asset-debt difference is about $19 billion, a bit more than what I remembered. However, the cash reserve for the entire group was only $6 billion in March 2003, and that was before the financial downturn and the massive restructuring...

kevindenoyette
07-23-2004, 12:08 AM
so what if sony borrowed money deadmeat? You're confusing DEBTS with LIABILITIES, i believe.

Just for a figure, microsoft has 11 billion dollars in liabilities. They don't have any debt because they can easily pay it off.

Fact remains that sony's gross profit margin is about 37%, which is the normal amount for most companies, they aren't making any losses, so there isn't really anything to worry about.
Sony isn't as big in the game sector as you think you know, they rely on games to pull in 12% of their totals, whilst movies is 11%, ect.

You're right about microsoft having deep pockets, ect, but the way i see it, it doesn't really matter, and neither does sony's financial state. They know they won't lose money on the ps3.

Domination
07-23-2004, 12:42 AM
Comparing MS's fiance to Sony's fiances is ridiculous.

MS has zero debt, maintains a 88% profit margin on Windows and Office(Better than a drug dealer's margin), has too much cash so they are unloading them onto their shareholders($75 billion in cash plus $25 billion in share buyback), and can afford to lose $7 billion on its console business and not blink.

Sony's net valuation is like only $5 billion after subtracting their debts from their asset, makes in a year what MS makes in three weeks, and is quickly losing its competitiveness in its core electronics market to Samsung, is under a heavy restructuring, and needs to burrow money to invest its fab because its cash reserve has dried up.

It's truely the battle between a prince and a pauper.

Well,it looks that Microsoft is blinking pretty good to me,and they haven't even hit 7 billion.Underestimating these guys should be the last thing on their minds.Sony has proven this before.

NickSCFC
07-23-2004, 01:28 AM
Since when did Sony invest $4 billion in the "Cell" project?

Domination
07-23-2004, 01:52 AM
Since when did Sony invest $4 billion in the "Cell" project?

It's not just on the Cell project.And it's $4.32 billion if I remember right.I don't think these guys plan on playing around with Microsoft.

imported_The_One
07-23-2004, 03:12 AM
The thing is... Sony's gaming market is quite small. Comprising of a mere 12% of overall revenue. So they wouldn't care too much what M$ did. If they lose gasp of the gaming market, they still have the electronic market to fall back on, which makes up 61% of Sony's overall revenue.
My personaly bet is that Xenon will sell like hot cakes simply because it's the first console to come out. Then PS3 will start out selling Xenon once it comes out... Kinda like how XBox and GC started stealing PS2's sales... hehe, it's all fair in love and war.

Ress Cor
07-23-2004, 07:48 PM
Well no suprise Sony is losing to Samsung and other manufacturers, everytime I look at prices Sony electronics are usually the most expensive and offer the least features.

Ie. DVD camcoder for Sony is $1150 CAD, it has 10x Optical
Panasonic sells the same thing for $849, with 18x Optical!

I'm sorry but I would get the Panasonic, no matter how much I love Sony.


Sony 19" LCD is like $1050 CAD, while the competition sells theirs (LG) for like $850 CAD.

Sony is a good company but for someone who has a budget in mine like I do, I can't go around spending more money then I have to.

imported_The_One
07-23-2004, 09:33 PM
Agreed. I wouldn't want to shell out more money then I have to, and especially not on something that has less feature then another piece of the same hardware that costs less.

GUNDAMSEED
07-24-2004, 01:30 AM
Also MS is lossing money there stock went down 3 or 4 percents yesterday when i check stock markets .

Also MS can never get rid of sony for 1 simple reason they will never out sell sony in japan and if you think they will out sell ps3 in japan you will have to be crazy . SE making games for MS i guess when i said that almost every single major gaming site said they said that before even with x box came out there are just being nice . Even if MS gets a SE game it most likly be like GC a semi FF that plays like mana game . look at it this way DQ 7 sold 4.5 million copies in japan that must be almost 10+ times the amount of x boxs over there . Even capcom says making x box games for japan does not make sense .

Also alot of people might get the next x box if come out before sony but it can work 2 ways , some people bought the x box saying it was more powerfull that ps2 that was said in may stores it could be opposite way .

Also alot of people will get piss of if x box next is not backwards compatible i have seen this on so much message boards is not funny .

imported_The_One
07-24-2004, 07:03 AM
Nah, true XBox fans won't be pissed, 'cause they won't be getting rid of their XBox anytime soon anyways :P. I've seen this on so much XBox Next boards that it's not even funny.

Also alot of people might get the next x box if come out before sony but it can work 2 ways , some people bought the x box saying it was more powerfull that ps2 that was said in may stores it could be opposite way . This is where all the tension is now... Was PS2's triumph simply because it was released first? If that was so, then M$ could definately win this round, if not... Then Sony takes it again.

GUNDAMSEED
07-24-2004, 02:07 PM
well i really don't see 20 million plus PS guys getting a x box if comes out first . :)

Any way as i said before MS can never get rid of sony cause even if they won europe and USA markets they will never win japan . There are about 20 million ps2 in japan think about it that's half of whole x box sales world wide .

on side note what i find would be funny is after it comes out in usa first since it's a USA company when they lanuch in japan, ps3 could be coming out same time over there which x box next would be screw .

Guys don't forget USA is not only place that sell and buy systems you have to look at the 3 major areas which are Europe , USA and Japan .

DC did not die because of lack of money only if you were look at gaming news it was doing good in USA with sell games and online play . but was not selling in japan at all they did not even have any RPGs really for it and that really hurt it over there .

If sony wanted before x box comes out they could let square do a vid or demo of lets say FF14 or 15 what ever number they going to be at, you can be certain that at least 5 million people would be getting a ps3 :)

Deadmeat
07-24-2004, 06:24 PM
Japan is pretty much a dead market nowadays so it doesn't matter anymore. The days where the availability of Japanese games dictating the success or failure of a console is over.

In any console generation, the vender with the lowest price, the largest selection of games, and the biggest marketing budget wins. MS is attempting to be that vender by launching a low-cost genetic console first, supporting developers with world-class tools, and the willingness to lose $3 billion over the lifespan of Xbox Next.

imported_The_One
07-24-2004, 06:37 PM
Japan is pretty much a dead market nowadays so it doesn't matter anymore. The days where the availability of Japanese games dictating the success or failure of a console is over.

In any console generation, the vender with the lowest price, the largest selection of games, and the biggest marketing budget wins. MS is attempting to be that vender by launching a low-cost genetic console first, supporting developers with world-class tools, and the willingness to lose $3 billion over the lifespan of Xbox Next. There's one major point you're obviously missing.
Japan = has THE most game dev which actually makes some DECENT games.
Sure, there's loads of devs in NA and Europe, but more then half of them makes CRAP.
No success in Japan = You lose those Devs which COULD have been interested in your console.
Success in Japan DOES dictate whether or not your console will succeed. Why else do you think M$ is Shelling out BIG bucks just to try and make sure that Xenon will succeed in Japan?
Without devs to back up your console, your console is as good as dead. I mean, take a look at XBox's sales in Japan. This obviously shows you that to succeed, you DO need a solid market share in Japan. There's 20 million PS2's in Japan... That number ALONE beats the total sale of XBox WORLDWIDE.

Any way as i said before MS can never get rid of sony cause even if they won europe and USA markets they will never win japan . There are about 20 million ps2 in japan think about it that's half of whole x box sales world wide . No, the worldwide sale of the XBox is around 16-17 million as to date. Possibly 18, but I'm not too sure.

and the willingness to lose $3 billion over the lifespan of Xbox Next. Exactly. ONLY 3 billion. What if they lose more then 3 Billion? See, you're only looking at one side of the argument. Not both. Consoles usually last for 10 years, even if a successor is released. Just take a good look at PSone, and the projected lifetime for the PS2. Both of them are 10 years. So you're saying that in 10 years, M$ is only willing to lose a mere 3 billion? Well, prepare to lose your hopes XBox fans, there won't be another XBox after Xenon if Billy Goats is only willing to lose 3 billion over 10 years :lol:.

GUNDAMSEED
07-24-2004, 08:04 PM
Deadmeat you are missing my point altogether you said MS will beat sony how are going to give them a hard run, if in one country alone sony has more ps2 then x box world wide .

X BOX SALES
worldwide shipment of Xbox has reached 15.5 million units. The breakdown is 1.5 millions in Asia / Pacific; 10.1 millions in North America and 3.9 millions in Europe.

That's near 20 times the amount of x box in japan . To say that x box does not need japanses devs is crazy . MS would love to have a FF on there system even if is a side FF they would still want one . Man you talking like people on gfaqs board that hate japanese that's why they got a x box which i find to be very sad they hate sony and all the companies in japan .

I love games from all over the world but to say that x box only needs USA and europe devs and there system will out do sony your head would have to be to far up your ass .

Unless your going to then tell men that ps3 will be so hard to program for that why all the devs will got to x box next and that's BS .

Japan is not a dead market games don't sell as much as they do before that is true ,but there still alot of cash over there and that why MS is trying there best to get some of the markets share of that so call dead market .

ultimategamer2004
07-24-2004, 08:08 PM
Yeah couldent of put it better but deadmeat has lived up to his name he basically has had a flaming off you guys and when he reads your post hopfully he will realize that he was wrong! :lol:

NickSCFC
07-24-2004, 08:21 PM
I'm sure the release of exclusive Japanese games like Outrun 2, Spikeout and Dead or Alive: Ultimate will boost Japanese Xbox sales.

imported_The_One
07-24-2004, 08:36 PM
I'm sure the release of exclusive Japanese games like Outrun 2, Spikeout and Dead or Alive: Ultimate will boost Japanese Xbox sales. My thoughts exactly... DOA:U.... *drools*... :lol:.

GUNDAMSEED
07-24-2004, 08:43 PM
Not really nick , thoses types of games are not really big sellers in japan , 75000 -100 000 copies if they are lucky . Now if they had a dating sim that's another story . The one game i saw pushing the x box in japan got can hell even i want to see it (talking about TFOL) .

ultimategamer2004
07-24-2004, 08:55 PM
I really doubt that the sales will boost that much not massive anyways Japan have never really liked the xbox :lol: And i doubt seeing how many have sold that they ever will.

games_ fan
07-24-2004, 08:57 PM
They need at least 10 japanise games just to make the x-box noticed in japan so I doupt 3 games will make that big a difference.

ultimategamer2004
07-24-2004, 09:03 PM
Yes that is if they are exclusive to japan if they aint the xbox is buggered i mean there will never be big sales of xboxs in japan i dont think anyways.

NickSCFC
07-24-2004, 09:05 PM
There's plenty more Japanese games coming to Xbox believe me. I just picked those 3 out as they're ones that would appeal to me and the Japanese public.

ultimategamer2004
07-24-2004, 09:07 PM
Yeah but no matter how many i still dont think that a load more xboxs will be sold as a direct cause of all the exclusive's..

games_ fan
07-24-2004, 09:21 PM
They might be bought by the people who already have an x-box and a few more x-boxes sold but most people will just buy a game on another system imo.

imported_The_One
07-24-2004, 09:25 PM
I would get an XBox for a few of those exclusives... Although I don't know if I'd be able to afford XBox Live... :roll:.
It may not boost XBox sales SIGNIFICANTLY, but it will definately boost the sales by at least 10% or so.

ultimategamer2004
07-24-2004, 09:35 PM
Personally i wouldent but a system just for a cople of exclusives or good games especially if the system is over £120 i would have to have more of a reason to get it.

imported_The_One
07-24-2004, 09:36 PM
Personally i wouldent but a system just for a cople of exclusives or good games especially if the system is over £120 i would have to have more of a reason to get it. Not only does the XBox have good exclusives, it's got good online play! That's another thing I'm looking forward to.

ultimategamer2004
07-24-2004, 10:10 PM
I would but i need a new PC and also its the price of the online play if it was cheaper or even free i would think about it.

imported_The_One
07-25-2004, 03:22 AM
I would but i need a new PC and also its the price of the online play if it was cheaper or even free i would think about it. Yeah, that's the only downside: Pay to Play.

Ress Cor
07-25-2004, 12:21 PM
Pay to Play, this is why I stick to PC gaming, its fun, get to use keyboard and mouse, I can upgrade the crap out of my system at any time etc.

X-Box Next will be nothing more then another PC, when it comes out I might buy a couple of them to turn them into extremely cheap servers for my website and hosting services.

To play games I'll stick to PC and PS3.

imported_The_One
07-26-2004, 02:18 AM
Ah yes... Hack them into servers.. A very ingenious idea indeed :D... Lower power consumption, and generally speaking, smaller then a server PC in size...
Now, I hope you don't mind Klaw, I took this from your sig at the PS3Land forum :P. Enjoy guys:
http://www.ps3portal.com/Pictures/xboxlive.jpg

KlawHammer
07-26-2004, 11:54 AM
Lol my old sig...yea in the world of Xbox - that too as Ress Cor says, is why i stick to PC gaming - CS is free, that is all i care about.

playstation_suxors
07-26-2004, 09:14 PM
You're all talking about how much money Microsoft is budgeting to lose. 3 Billion Dollars. Lets imagine for a minute... that they MAKE money on the nextbox. (They will never call it xenon... wanna know why? it's phoenetically spelled zee-non no 'ex' in it) Microsoft is doing a lot of things right these days. RPG's is not one of them. Ever heard of a game called Fable? Well Japan has, and so has everybody else unless you live under your POS~2...

Fable is going to make a line. All other RPG's can stand behind it because it will be the greatest RPG ever. Game of the Year is either going to be Fable or Halo 2. Do you realize how much money Game of the Year games pull in for systems? Xbox lost money on it's console... not the games.

Sony is also going to be losing a lot of money on it's PSP. What a horrible idea. "lets make a ps2... portable, and give it a bigger screen than Nintendo's stuff" Nintendo at least has the right idea by trying something new with their hand held... With PS3 comming in less than a year after the release of the PSP... why would you want a portable ps2 game? Wouldn't you rather have something that could port ps3? Right but... it's not going to happen.

Claims of ps3 being 30x faster than today's current PC's are quite unbelievable. If they really do claim 30x... that would make them 90gHz right? At least Microsoft's claims of 2-3x faster is feasable. Not only that but Microsoft has been rumored to have thoughts of making the nextbox compatable with PC games. Good bad? Either way it's going to please the PC folks. My vote... if not obvious enough is nextbox, ps3... best of luck.

NickSCFC
07-26-2004, 09:23 PM
I'm more bothered about OutRun 2, DOA Ultimate and Doom 3 for Xbox this year.

Don't get dragged into these petty arguments though, it won't go down well here, and you could do with a new name too :mrgreen:

ultimategamer2004
07-26-2004, 09:26 PM
Sony is also going to be losing a lot of money on it's PSP. What a horrible idea. "lets make a ps2... portable, and give it a bigger screen than Nintendo's stuff" Nintendo at least has the right idea by trying something new with their hand held... With PS3 comming in less than a year after the release of the PSP... why would you want a portable ps2 game? Wouldn't you rather have something that could port ps3? Right but... it's not going to happen.

Its obivous that you dont understand have you seen specs/pics of a psp its an extremly good idea i mean come on you havent done any research have you! Dont know WTF your on about ps2 games on it for i take it you know it takes UMD's?

Welcome to PS3i.... :lol:

Deadmeat
07-27-2004, 12:00 AM
What a horrible idea. "lets make a ps2... portable, and give it a bigger screen than Nintendo's stuff"
Exactly. I had been asking Sony fans this question and heard no acceptable answer to this date. Why would SCEI be using 2.6 GFLOPS PSP ASIC when 1 TFLOPS CELL ASIC was coming only one year later? This confirms 2.6 GFLOS is considered good enough even in CELL era...

kevindenoyette
07-27-2004, 12:22 AM
Say whatever you want about the playstation portable, but you brats should be thankful sony even ventured into the handheld world, if only for the sake of pushing nintendo to make a new handheld - one that's not a drab successor to its predecessor, like i has been for fifteen years.

as for the lower flop count, why would you even compare the cell with the psp? i don't see any point in it. I guess it's logical for you to agree with a poster called "playstation_suxorz".

gaming ultima
07-27-2004, 12:23 AM
You're all talking about how much money Microsoft is budgeting to lose. 3 Billion Dollars. Lets imagine for a minute... that they MAKE money on the nextbox. (They will never call it xenon... wanna know why? it's phoenetically spelled zee-non no 'ex' in it) Microsoft is doing a lot of things right these days. RPG's is not one of them. Ever heard of a game called Fable? Well Japan has, and so has everybody else unless you live under your POS~2...

Fable is going to make a line. All other RPG's can stand behind it because it will be the greatest RPG ever. Game of the Year is either going to be Fable or Halo 2. Do you realize how much money Game of the Year games pull in for systems? Xbox lost money on it's console... not the games.

Sony is also going to be losing a lot of money on it's PSP. What a horrible idea. "lets make a ps2... portable, and give it a bigger screen than Nintendo's stuff" Nintendo at least has the right idea by trying something new with their hand held... With PS3 comming in less than a year after the release of the PSP... why would you want a portable ps2 game? Wouldn't you rather have something that could port ps3? Right but... it's not going to happen.

Claims of ps3 being 30x faster than today's current PC's are quite unbelievable. If they really do claim 30x... that would make them 90gHz right? At least Microsoft's claims of 2-3x faster is feasable. Not only that but Microsoft has been rumored to have thoughts of making the nextbox compatable with PC games. Good bad? Either way it's going to please the PC folks. My vote... if not obvious enough is nextbox, ps3... best of luck.
With your name aside the fact that you don’t even know what Hz measures or even how to write it correctly kind of makes you look dumb and therefore taking the weight out of anything you say, no matter how valid it might be.

stanDarsh
07-27-2004, 02:24 AM
What a horrible idea. "lets make a ps2... portable, and give it a bigger screen than Nintendo's stuff"
Exactly. I had been asking Sony fans this question and heard no acceptable answer to this date. Why would SCEI be using 2.6 GFLOPS PSP ASIC when 1 TFLOPS CELL ASIC was coming only one year later? This confirms 2.6 GFLOS is considered good enough even in CELL era...

IT IS A HANDHELD! Geez! When it is released it will be the most powerful portable gaming device, isn't that enough for you guys?

If Sony handn't entered the handheld market I doubt Nintendo would have even made the DX, I mean why bother when Gameboy monopolises the handheld gaming market and has been doing so for many years!

If they made PSP too powerful, sort of a PS2.5, then it could potentially take away sales from PS3, and I really doubt Sony would wanna risk that. Just be thankful it is basically on par with current generation consoles!

imported_The_One
07-27-2004, 05:10 AM
You're all talking about how much money Microsoft is budgeting to lose. 3 Billion Dollars. Lets imagine for a minute... that they MAKE money on the nextbox. (They will never call it xenon... wanna know why? it's phoenetically spelled zee-non no 'ex' in it) Microsoft is doing a lot of things right these days. RPG's is not one of them. Ever heard of a game called Fable? Well Japan has, and so has everybody else unless you live under your POS~2...

Claims of ps3 being 30x faster than today's current PC's are quite unbelievable. If they really do claim 30x... that would make them 90gHz right? At least Microsoft's claims of 2-3x faster is feasable. Not only that but Microsoft has been rumored to have thoughts of making the nextbox compatable with PC games. Good bad? Either way it's going to please the PC folks. My vote... if not obvious enough is nextbox, ps3... best of luck. Why oh why... Does NO Xbox fanboys out there know ANYTHING about console hardware specs? Guess not... :roll:. First of all, the CELL will not, and CANNOT run at anything close to 90Ghz. Why? Power consumption, heat radiation, and basic silicon vibration. At 90Ghz, this mere silicon chip dubbed the "CELL" will be vibrating 90 billion times per second, will it break? In my opinion, yes. And second of all, Hertz has nothing to do with processing power... once again, I must roll my eyes :roll:.
Now, let's take the CPU (not the GPU, STRICTLY CPU) of the XBox and compare it to the CPU (EE) of the PS2... Which is more powerful? PS2's CPU. Why? It's 2 times more powerful. The XBox CPU produces approx 3GFLOp/s, while the PS2 CPU produces approx 6GFLOp/s. Now, if you don't understand what FLOp/s is... Seriously, don't argue with us about the Xenon being stronger then the PS2 :lol:. It'll be a damn amazing machine, but it won't be more powerful then the PS3. Afterall, the PS3 WILL be released 1 year after the Xenon, just like how the XBox capitalized on the PS2's GPU weakness.
30x more powerful then a high end spec? I can see that happening... A 2.5Ghz P4 produces approx 2GFLOp/s... hahahaha... SAD piece of crap for gaming. The only thing that makes a PC better is it's continual developement of "better" GPU Cores. Is it truly better? Yes, but you can only start to see this "improvement" 1 to 2 years after the original release of a console, just like the PS2.
I hope you realized something.

Fable is going to make a line. All other RPG's can stand behind it because it will be the greatest RPG ever. Game of the Year is either going to be Fable or Halo 2. Do you realize how much money Game of the Year games pull in for systems? Xbox lost money on it's console... not the games. Uh.... no ONE game loses money... That's why ONE frekin' DVD-ROM sells for 50 bucks upon release.... :lol:. Man, your lack of knowledge in the business/marketing field amazes me... Just like how Deadmeat amazes me with his lack of overall knowledge...
If you're talking about a game losing money OVERALL, that's very possible. Seeing as how a HIT game would take approximately 13 million dollars to make. Yes, that's A LOT of money.
Greatest RPG ever? You do know that there WILL be Fable 2 right? And it's gonna crush Fable down to the ground with better almost everything... :lol:. Nothing last forever in this material world... I hope you realize that; if not, have fun in your little "dream world".
Now, all you XBox owners seems to forget a few other good competitors:
MGS3 and Killzone. They are definately not in the same category (except for Killzone, both are FPS), but either of them could snatch the title of GAME OF THE YEAR from Halo 2. I'm just telling you in advance, so you won't have to cry to your mommy when it happens.

Sony is also going to be losing a lot of money on it's PSP. What a horrible idea. "lets make a ps2... portable, and give it a bigger screen than Nintendo's stuff" Nintendo at least has the right idea by trying something new with their hand held... With PS3 comming in less than a year after the release of the PSP... why would you want a portable ps2 game? Wouldn't you rather have something that could port ps3? Right but... it's not going to happen. They will most likely lose money... but MAYBE not a lot (Who knows, I've had my doubt on the PSP earning anything... :roll:). There's is no way we can know how the events will turn out... But with PSP selling at a loss, just like XBox, it may actually be quite cheap and affordable for the "average Joe". If that is so, then I highly dout they will lose any money from this "investment", since just like you said, they may lose money on the console itself, but not on the games ;).
Now, what you XBox Owners don't know about the PSP is that it will NOT be a portable PS2. Performance-wise, yes, pretty close. But it'll have a whole different library of games, since Sony has officially said NO to PS2 ports. Even GT4 Mobile is gonna be different then GT4 for the PS2.
On top of that, unlike Big N's DS, this is NOT a simple gaming machine, it's a music player, cell phone (there's an add on for it), movie player, and possibly some other add on that will come later.
Now, I respect your patriotism for XBox and M$, but the truth is, the next gen console war will be one of the biggest of the century, and the out come is simply unpredictable. The chances of Xenon beating PS3 is just as likely as the PS3 beating the Xenon. So before you go around saying that the PS3 will lose money, know this:
The future is unpredictable, same with reality.

IT IS A HANDHELD! Geez! When it is released it will be the most powerful portable gaming device, isn't that enough for you guys? Uh... they are XBox Fans. Generally accepted as lesser mortals, and they will bash anything related to the PS franchise and Sony/SCEI as much as possible.

I'm more bothered about OutRun 2, DOA Ultimate and Doom 3 for Xbox this year. Nah... Now that he mentioned Fable, I might as well put that on my "XBox 'Must Get' Game List". Now... that's as soon as I get Killzone, MGS3, and GT4 first... hehe.

Don't get dragged into these petty arguments though, it won't go down well here, and you could do with a new name too Don't bother about his name... Those XBox fans will probably just come here once and post spam and never come back again... If he does come back again, a change in name would be appreciated, not that I really care :lol:. 'Cause I mostly agree with his name :P. PlayStation DID Suck... compared to it's competitor: N64 :lol:.

KlawHammer
07-27-2004, 11:04 AM
Another thing. The err "Pentium III/Celeron Hybrid" found in the Xbox is only 32bit. The EE is 128bit...that speaks nice and loud M$ fanboy...

bRoNx
07-27-2004, 11:39 AM
What a horrible idea. "lets make a ps2... portable, and give it a bigger screen than Nintendo's stuff"
Exactly. I had been asking Sony fans this question and heard no acceptable answer to this date. Why would SCEI be using 2.6 GFLOPS PSP ASIC when 1 TFLOPS CELL ASIC was coming only one year later? This confirms 2.6 GFLOS is considered good enough even in CELL era...

Silly buggers!

Oh well, good luck packing your XBLOCK + an LCD screen + a generator + your muesli bars + whatever else you'll need, just to be able to take that so-called "beast" of a machine to the mall...while I just whip this baby around my neck, and taa-daa...a PORTABLE PLAYSTATION! hmmm...I think I'll call it...PSP!

PS: I can see M$ making a handheld...called XP (XBLOCK Port-A-Loo...sorry, a little typo there...I meant Portable)
Consumer Focus Group feedbacks:
"...my child broke his back when he tried to carry one of these XP handheld thingees around his neck! But still...nice graphics..."
"...I love the way I can reuse my old briefcase as a carrycase for this thing...perfect fit!"
"...yeah, and it can double up as a dumbell! Look! *starts doing bicep curls with it!*"
"...and I just love the look on people's face when they say...Nice laptop, is that a new model?...and I say...No, it's my XBLOCK Portable!"
"...oh boy, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!!! *whispers* Did I say that correctly?"

Domination
07-27-2004, 01:07 PM
What a horrible idea. "lets make a ps2... portable, and give it a bigger screen than Nintendo's stuff"
Exactly. I had been asking Sony fans this question and heard no acceptable answer to this date. Why would SCEI be using 2.6 GFLOPS PSP ASIC when 1 TFLOPS CELL ASIC was coming only one year later? This confirms 2.6 GFLOS is considered good enough even in CELL era...

Say that again;I don't think I understood you clearly.

First of all,Sony hasn't released all the information on the PSP,which explains why we are just now hearing about the language translator.

Secondly,you ask why would Sony build a PSP console with 2.6 GFLOPS when the PS3 will have 1TFLOPS.I told you this before,but,for some reason,you act like you have a basic understanding with this stuff: we don't know if the PS3 will do one tereflop.It is only possible that it will do this and maybe even beyond.Sony building the PSP to slightly compare to its PS2 console is no different from Nintendo doing this with their handheld you bias individual.The PSP is also a portable device.Meaning one thing and that's playing games portably.None of this factors in with the PS1,PS2,or PS3 sales.It is an entirely different market by itself.Why do you think the GBA continues to out-sale the Game Cube?People could give a care less what the PS3 has.If they are looking for something to entertain them while not at home,a handheld is what they'll be looking for or vice-versa.

rev>thanu
07-28-2004, 06:10 PM
also a handheld for this generation doesn't require that much power considering how small the screen is. plus i think that sony has forced nintendo to jump a huge stage on the handheld market. having a mini ps2 from a GBA that could only handle super famicon graphics is a huge step in the handheld business.

yes sony only put 2.6gflops on the CPU of the psp, but in the process they added much more to the GPU. why? to make development for the handheld as easy and fast as possible. i mean why would they want developers to invest huge amount of money to find out how the unit works and how to access more of it's power. sony want's development for the handheld to be easy to attrack developers and to rapidly build a fan base and a concrete line up.

imported_The_One
08-02-2004, 06:15 PM
also a handheld for this generation doesn't require that much power considering how small the screen is Not the screen size, the resolution.
Smaller the resolution, the less polygon it takes to create the same effect on a higher resolution screen -- Well, in general anyways.

playstation_suxors
08-02-2004, 09:16 PM
hmm, so anyways I did decide to come back... simply because I've got a little more to say, a little humbled but still for teh xbox. fanboy just doesn't seem to fit... it's impressed and loving it

well, I'm going to say that I still think the PSP is a bad idea... and I hope it fails horribly. that's all for that

I would like to reiterate that it's not going to be called xenon... it's not the Zbox... it's the xbox

I doubt that You'll see a Fable 2 either... at least not for xbox. They're doing this all in one shot. If they do make a sequel however. That will then be the greatest RPG. Until then... I'm just waiting for the first Fable. I don't think there's any way that GOTY will go to anything but halo 2 or Fable... sure metal gear has it's shot and GTA:SA has potential... but that's just me again...

lets say that I did change my name? for all you ps ppl... how would I do so so that I no longer offended you all?

Domination
08-02-2004, 11:31 PM
hmm, so anyways I did decide to come back... simply because I've got a little more to say, a little humbled but still for teh xbox. fanboy just doesn't seem to fit... it's impressed and loving it

well, I'm going to say that I still think the PSP is a bad idea... and I hope it fails horribly. that's all for that

I would like to reiterate that it's not going to be called xenon... it's not the Zbox... it's the xbox

I doubt that You'll see a Fable 2 either... at least not for xbox. They're doing this all in one shot. If they do make a sequel however. That will then be the greatest RPG. Until then... I'm just waiting for the first Fable. I don't think there's any way that GOTY will go to anything but halo 2 or Fable... sure metal gear has it's shot and GTA:SA has potential... but that's just me again...

lets say that I did change my name? for all you ps ppl... how would I do so so that I no longer offended you all?

http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/squint.gif

kevindenoyette
08-03-2004, 01:13 AM
It doesn't matter what your damn screen name is. You just come accross as a closed-minded fool, not open to any suggestion and just living inside his own world (one where x-box rules the console world, i presume). You need to change your ways or no one will take you seriously here.

imported_The_One
08-03-2004, 05:28 AM
You need to change your ways or no one will take you seriously here. I think he IS trying to change his ways, well, at least a bit at a time.

lets say that I did change my name? for all you ps ppl... how would I do so so that I no longer offended you all? Go to profiles, the first thing you should see is "User Name". Change that and you can change your screen name.

well, I'm going to say that I still think the PSP is a bad idea... and I hope it fails horribly Your wish just might come true :roll:. Last time I checked, the poll on gamefaqs.com showed that over 25% of the people would get a DS, and only over 13% would want to get a PSP. That's almost a 2-1 ratio. If the poll somehow reflect more then just the people who goes to gamefaqs.com... Well, Sony got a BIG problem.

I doubt that You'll see a Fable 2 either... at least not for xbox. Same, I doubt we'll see it for the XBox... But I was just saying that it could happen :lol:.

don't think there's any way that GOTY will go to anything but halo 2 or Fable Come again? I don't particularly understand what you're trying to say in this sentence. By the way, what's GOTY?

@Domination: What's that smily suppose to mean?? :?

stanDarsh
08-03-2004, 07:28 AM
don't think there's any way that GOTY will go to anything but halo 2 or Fable Come again? I don't particularly understand what you're trying to say in this sentence. By the way, what's GOTY?

GOTY stands for Game Of The Year.

imported_The_One
08-03-2004, 07:38 AM
Ah, I see. Well then, on my GOTY list for consoles only:
MGS3
Halo 2
Fable
Killzone
GT4 (That's IF it's released this year)
Yup, those are the 5 GOTY IMO in no particular order.

KlawHammer
08-03-2004, 11:18 AM
GT4 GOTY Edition...for me...

kevindenoyette
08-03-2004, 12:30 PM
You need to change your ways or no one will take you seriously here. I think he IS trying to change his ways, well, at least a bit at a time.

lets say that I did change my name? for all you ps ppl... how would I do so so that I no longer offended you all? Go to profiles, the first thing you should see is "User Name". Change that and you can change your screen name.

well, I'm going to say that I still think the PSP is a bad idea... and I hope it fails horribly Your wish just might come true :roll:. Last time I checked, the poll on gamefaqs.com showed that over 25% of the people would get a DS, and only over 13% would want to get a PSP. That's almost a 2-1 ratio. If the poll somehow reflect more then just the people who goes to gamefaqs.com... Well, Sony got a BIG problem.

I doubt that You'll see a Fable 2 either... at least not for xbox. Same, I doubt we'll see it for the XBox... But I was just saying that it could happen :lol:.

don't think there's any way that GOTY will go to anything but halo 2 or Fable Come again? I don't particularly understand what you're trying to say in this sentence. By the way, what's GOTY?

@Domination: What's that smily suppose to mean?? :?



A big problem? how? Sony doesn't aim to sell half of nintendo's DS. Their aim is to sell between 5 and 10 million psp units in a year. how much will the ds sell? 25 mill? 30?

my prediction is a 7:3 ratio for nintendo.

rev>thanu
08-03-2004, 07:16 PM
polls are just that polls. when people see the thing in action and they see what games each has to offer then we will see how each handheld performs. in my belief i think that more than 50% of current playstation 2 owners would want to own a psp. so that's a pretty huge crowd. also psp is targeted at many different markets(handheld: gaming, music, movies, phone, etc.). to be honest i think the psp will spice things up on the handheld industry and the psp just like the Gameboy, will create and attrack it's own market share apart from nintendo's. so really i see neither handheld failing at. i see them each having their respective market share. i do believe this though, in japan i see psp taking most of the Gameboy fans from nintendo. but also i see i alot of people owning both simply because you will never get a look of pokemon, mario, zelda and certain games on the psp.

imported_The_One
08-03-2004, 09:30 PM
but also i see i alot of people owning both simply because you will never get a look of pokemon, mario, zelda and certain games on the psp. Who in their rightful mind would still want to play Pokemon in this age and day :lol:. And I think we got enough of mario already... Man, I've been playing Mario ever since Mario 1 to 3, then Yoshi's Island and all those other stuff that was out for SNES.

A big problem? how? Sony doesn't aim to sell half of nintendo's DS. Their aim is to sell between 5 and 10 million psp units in a year. In that case, then maybe they don't have a problem :mrgreen:.

PseudoChron
08-09-2004, 09:57 PM
I can see M$ making a handheld...called XP (XBLOCK Port-A-Loo...sorry, a little typo there...I meant Portable)
XBP - Xbox Portable (http://www.playstation3insider.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3079)

dragonlance
08-10-2004, 11:13 PM
I think PseudoChron is confused, that is just an XB controller some graphic artist made wider, and put a black square in the mid :roll: people are so gullable these days.

richjwild
08-10-2004, 11:15 PM
..........................................

PseudoChron
08-11-2004, 02:04 AM
I think PseudoChron is confused, that is just an XB controller some graphic artist made wider, and put a black square in the mid
OMG u mean its fake??? Holy shitz i never would have guessed!!!!



... yeah I made it.

LaLiLuLeLo
08-11-2004, 03:42 AM
ok. how were psone and 2 a joke? Am I on some shit, or did saturn get put out of the market, and did n64 die and early death, and did they just now retire the psone, laying claim to the most robust and impressive game library in console history? PS2? Joke? You must be joking. This console war is over, as Kaz Hirai so adequately said. Sony not only ran off the momentum of the PSone but managed to build another number one gaming library and break the console war curse, leading two consecutive hardware generations. And that my friend, is no joke.

welcome_to_the_3rd_place
08-14-2004, 11:49 AM
I am going to hold my hands up i read post one, post two, missed a few and got to the end.

However.

Microsoft is absolutely MILES behind sony when it comes to loyal fanbase and installed users. I don't care who says who is "switching" to microsoft. Ignore windows, ignore MSN Messenger and I.E. SONY has the equivelant position of microsoft in the console industry - total domination. Microsoft are the Linux of the console industry, except with more corporate evil.

There is no advantage for microsoft to release XBOX2 before or after. They are figthing with nintendo for 2nd place in sales. Nothing more or less.

Debate it until you're dead. The PS3 will outsell the XBOX2 regardless of release dates.

That is assuming it is released before the PS3. All microsoft seem to be capable of announcing about the XBOX2 is "yep... there'll be one... it might be 2005.... no wait... it might not"

Ferrismc
08-14-2004, 12:08 PM
Xenon will be a flop. I know some people who bought themselves a xbox because of the modding capabilities , playing back any media etc. but they definitely change if this would be not possible on the xenon.
xenon like the xbox will flop because now Sony will implement full online support and smash out xbox which has advatages beacuse of the ethernet /modem connection /XboxLive.
Sony no problem guys. MS wil always loose money. Here in Germany many town are preparing to change from Windows to Linux their PC System. MS would again loose a lot of money.

migo
08-14-2004, 01:58 PM
Claims of ps3 being 30x faster than today's current PC's are quite unbelievable. If they really do claim 30x... that would make them 90gHz right? At least Microsoft's claims of 2-3x faster is feasable. Not only that but Microsoft has been rumored to have thoughts of making the nextbox compatable with PC games. Good bad? Either way it's going to please the PC folks. My vote... if not obvious enough is nextbox, ps3... best of luck.

Seriously, you believe the GHz myth? Obviously it's not going to be 30x faster, but it still will be faster. A PS2 running at 292MHz with 32MB RAM can handle games than need 4X the CPU clock speed and 8X the system RAM and 2X the graphics RAM to run on a PC - and that's minimum system requirements. And it's still got plenty of power that can be worked out of it as the full potential of the EE still hasn't been realised with the PS2. Then you consider that when the PS2 was released, the fastest system was 1GHz which will no longer run modern video games. The PS2 will still be playing top end games well when 2GHz systems are needed


Say whatever you want about the playstation portable, but you brats should be thankful sony even ventured into the handheld world, if only for the sake of pushing nintendo to make a new handheld - one that's not a drab successor to its predecessor, like i has been for fifteen years

LOL, that's true. Of course it also shows that the PSP won't win, 'cause even though the Gameboy was never the best system, it still outsold every other system and pushed them out of the market. On two counts - price and battery life. The GB lasted 10 hours because of its monochrome screene, the Lynx lasted 2 hours. That looks surprisingly similar to the projected battery life of the DS and PSP.

threepac3
08-14-2004, 06:41 PM
[quote]LOL, that's true. Of course it also shows that the PSP won't win, 'cause even though the Gameboy was never the best system, it still outsold every other system and pushed them out of the market. On two counts - price and battery life. The GB lasted 10 hours because of its monochrome screene, the Lynx lasted 2 hours. That looks surprisingly similar to the projected battery life of the DS and PSP.

U must realize that its a different time ok?.? First off ppl didn't think that an upstart Sony Playstation could match the experianced Nintendo did they? If u want to use history to prove ur point... theres a history point. I could give u a lot of different reasons why PS beat Nintendo 2 generations now, but ill only give u 3(im Lazy).

1. Nintendo is nolonger capable matching other platforms 3rd party support, they just can't. Sure Nintendo has the most popular first party games/characters, but for a long time Nintendo has been alienating most of its 3rd party support away.

2. Nintendo nolonger appeals to ppl that enjoyed there products in the early years of these things. Fact is we just GOT OLD and because of that we prefere more mature games and platforms that Nintendo just can't provide us(and for that matter does not want to provide us). It seems that Nintendo wants to keep there influence on kids which will hurt them because Sony is intrested in Kids and Adults and has designed the PSP to do that.

3. Nintendo does not have the $$$ to match Sony in the comercial advertizement department. Sony will advertize this portable like a portable has never been advertized before. And PSP will be the "Hip" thing to have by the time Sony's done with it.

So theres my 3 little points why Nintendo will not just blow Sony out of the water, becuase of past events that might have been in there favor.

imported_The_One
08-14-2004, 07:42 PM
Xenon will be a flop. I know some people who bought themselves a xbox because of the modding capabilities , playing back any media etc. but they definitely change if this would be not possible on the xenon.
xenon like the xbox will flop because now Sony will implement full online support and smash out xbox which has advatages beacuse of the ethernet /modem connection /XboxLive.
Sony no problem guys. MS wil always loose money. Here in Germany many town are preparing to change from Windows to Linux their PC System. MS would again loose a lot of money.
Well, Xenon being a flop is pretty much guaranteed, since M$ themselves have already said that the expected loss of Xenon is 3 BILLION. Now THAT's a LOT of money to bleed, even for M$.

Sony will implement full online support and smash out xbox which has advatages beacuse of the ethernet /modem connection /XboxLive. There isn't any confirmation of a Full online support such as "PS Live" for PS... yet. Hopefully, Sony will come up with something that's equally as good, if not better. Although I, personally, am satisified with FREE online service with PS2's external network adapter.

Microsoft is absolutely MILES behind sony when it comes to loyal fanbase and installed users. I don't care who says who is "switching" to microsoft. Ignore windows, ignore MSN Messenger and I.E. SONY has the equivelant position of microsoft in the console industry - total domination. Microsoft are the Linux of the console industry, except with more corporate evil. Haha, totally agreed :mrgreen:.

migo
08-14-2004, 11:10 PM
U must realize that its a different time ok?.? First off ppl didn't think that an upstart Sony Playstation could match the experianced Nintendo did they? If u want to use history to prove ur point... theres a history point. I could give u a lot of different reasons why PS beat Nintendo 2 generations now, but ill only give u 3(im Lazy).

It's no different than the past 15 years where Nintendo has successively beaten every hand held offering from other companies (including Sega, and Atari which was well established in the home console market) despite the fact that they were superior machines in every aspect other than battery life in price.


1. Nintendo is nolonger capable matching other platforms 3rd party support, they just can't. Sure Nintendo has the most popular first party games/characters, but for a long time Nintendo has been alienating most of its 3rd party support away.

That's only consoles. They have no competition in the handheld market, and the DS is backwards compatible with all GB games. It has the same headstart that the PS2 has on other systems due to backwards compatibility. They have plenty of 3rd party support in the handheld market, and that's not about to change.


2. Nintendo nolonger appeals to ppl that enjoyed there products in the early years of these things. Fact is we just GOT OLD and because of that we prefere more mature games and platforms that Nintendo just can't provide us(and for that matter does not want to provide us). It seems that Nintendo wants to keep there influence on kids which will hurt them because Sony is intrested in Kids and Adults and has designed the PSP to do that.

You're acting as if there aren't new kids coming along. Furthermore, the GBA SP was quite well received by the adult comunity, and the new design of the DS follows. The PSP hasn't been designed with kids in mind. It's going to be very easy to damage, while the DS' clamshell design makes it a lot more sturdy. And Sony isn't going to get the Pokémon franchise. Sony might be trying to target the adult audience, but then again, so did Sega and Atari. It didn't help them.


3. Nintendo does not have the $$$ to match Sony in the comercial advertizement department. Sony will advertize this portable like a portable has never been advertized before. And PSP will be the "Hip" thing to have by the time Sony's done with it.

Only problem with that is Nintendo doesn't need advertisment. Everyone's been using a Gameboy for the last 15 years, and those who haven't are using one now. By all accounts, the DS will be out by the end of the year, and it will have gotten more mindhsare simply on account of people using it than the PSP will get through advertising.


So theres my 3 little points why Nintendo will not just blow Sony out of the water, becuase of past events that might have been in there favor.

And past events are still in their favor. It's unlikely that Sony will be able to get the price point of the PSP to match the DS, as Sony will be unwilling to tarnish their high quality image by selling a product at a reduced price even though they're perfectly capable of doing so. Also, the PSPs battery life is 2-3 hours, the DS is going to be able to pull of 10-12 hours. 2-3 hours just isn't enough for a portable system, that's what killed the Lynx and the Game Gear, you couldn't take it with you on an extended trip and play it. You'd have to leave it at home and recharge it. If you want to get more than a couple hours of gameplay in each day the PSP is a completely unviable option. Sony also isn't going to do too well pushing the memory stick format. It's cute that they try to push it into every product that really doesn't need it (such as the MPDA20U), but it's really easier to just save to the cartridge - especially since that's what people have been doing for 15 years. As for the movie watching capabilities, who wants to watch a movie on the small screen? I know plenty of people who don't care to watch movies on laptops or PCs just because of the screen size compared to the TV. The only reason laptops get use for watching movies is because you can't carry a 20" TV with you everywhere. Even the 5" TVs get little use despite their convenience. Also, having to buy every movie twice, once on UMD and once on DVD is going to get really tiresome. Sony's going to have to release a dual format DVD/UMD player to make it worthwhile. The DS also has features with the touch screen that PSP can't match at all, and with the DS being based on the ARM-9, how long do you think it'll be before someone hacks Windows CE or Palm OS to run on it?

Those three factors you listed, aside from being off base aren't going to change the fact that the PSP just isn't adequate as a portable gaming system. Low battery life + fragile + high price is a really awful combination. Nintendo's going to have high battery life + sturdy + low price.

kevindenoyette
08-15-2004, 12:22 AM
[quote=threepac3] the PSP just isn't adequate as a portable gaming system. Low battery life + fragile + high price is a really awful combination. Nintendo's going to have high battery life + sturdy + low price.



Those points are so fallacious, as is most of your post. I hate speculation more than anything, especially speculation this drastic.


1. the psp's battery life is, once again, to be revealed. There have been ambiguous statements concerning the battery life, but nothing really official, so this can't be used in a discussion, but of course everyone uses it because they just assume it will have bad battery life. I think sony won't allow that.
2. High price: while the price will probably be a fair bit higher than the ds, you are not one to define 'high price', and secondly, you don't know what the price will be. therefore this point is redundant.
3. fragile: what's your reason to think the psp will be that fragile? additionally, more fragile than the ds?

By fragile, i don't mean screen scratches, i mean drop and break.


Anyways, i'm not mad at your or something, but you shouldn't really assume a lot of those things, they are not definite at all.

imported_The_One
08-15-2004, 06:07 AM
Hmm... How did this thread get turned into a DS vs PSP thread?

threepac3
08-15-2004, 06:40 AM
U must realize that its a different time ok?.? First off ppl didn't think that an upstart Sony Playstation could match the experianced Nintendo did they? If u want to use history to prove ur point... theres a history point. I could give u a lot of different reasons why PS beat Nintendo 2 generations now, but ill only give u 3(im Lazy).

It's no different than the past 15 years where Nintendo has successively beaten every hand held offering from other companies (including Sega, and Atari which was well established in the home console market) despite the fact that they were superior machines in every aspect other than battery life in price.


1. Nintendo is nolonger capable matching other platforms 3rd party support, they just can't. Sure Nintendo has the most popular first party games/characters, but for a long time Nintendo has been alienating most of its 3rd party support away.

That's only consoles. They have no competition in the handheld market, and the DS is backwards compatible with all GB games. It has the same headstart that the PS2 has on other systems due to backwards compatibility. They have plenty of 3rd party support in the handheld market, and that's not about to change.


2. Nintendo nolonger appeals to ppl that enjoyed there products in the early years of these things. Fact is we just GOT OLD and because of that we prefere more mature games and platforms that Nintendo just can't provide us(and for that matter does not want to provide us). It seems that Nintendo wants to keep there influence on kids which will hurt them because Sony is intrested in Kids and Adults and has designed the PSP to do that.

You're acting as if there aren't new kids coming along. Furthermore, the GBA SP was quite well received by the adult comunity, and the new design of the DS follows. The PSP hasn't been designed with kids in mind. It's going to be very easy to damage, while the DS' clamshell design makes it a lot more sturdy. And Sony isn't going to get the Pokémon franchise. Sony might be trying to target the adult audience, but then again, so did Sega and Atari. It didn't help them.


3. Nintendo does not have the $$$ to match Sony in the comercial advertizement department. Sony will advertize this portable like a portable has never been advertized before. And PSP will be the "Hip" thing to have by the time Sony's done with it.

Only problem with that is Nintendo doesn't need advertisment. Everyone's been using a Gameboy for the last 15 years, and those who haven't are using one now. By all accounts, the DS will be out by the end of the year, and it will have gotten more mindhsare simply on account of people using it than the PSP will get through advertising.


So theres my 3 little points why Nintendo will not just blow Sony out of the water, becuase of past events that might have been in there favor.

And past events are still in their favor. It's unlikely that Sony will be able to get the price point of the PSP to match the DS, as Sony will be unwilling to tarnish their high quality image by selling a product at a reduced price even though they're perfectly capable of doing so. Also, the PSPs battery life is 2-3 hours, the DS is going to be able to pull of 10-12 hours. 2-3 hours just isn't enough for a portable system, that's what killed the Lynx and the Game Gear, you couldn't take it with you on an extended trip and play it. You'd have to leave it at home and recharge it. If you want to get more than a couple hours of gameplay in each day the PSP is a completely unviable option. Sony also isn't going to do too well pushing the memory stick format. It's cute that they try to push it into every product that really doesn't need it (such as the MPDA20U), but it's really easier to just save to the cartridge - especially since that's what people have been doing for 15 years. As for the movie watching capabilities, who wants to watch a movie on the small screen? I know plenty of people who don't care to watch movies on laptops or PCs just because of the screen size compared to the TV. The only reason laptops get use for watching movies is because you can't carry a 20" TV with you everywhere. Even the 5" TVs get little use despite their convenience. Also, having to buy every movie twice, once on UMD and once on DVD is going to get really tiresome. Sony's going to have to release a dual format DVD/UMD player to make it worthwhile. The DS also has features with the touch screen that PSP can't match at all, and with the DS being based on the ARM-9, how long do you think it'll be before someone hacks Windows CE or Palm OS to run on it?

Those three factors you listed, aside from being off base aren't going to change the fact that the PSP just isn't adequate as a portable gaming system. Low battery life + fragile + high price is a really awful combination. Nintendo's going to have high battery life + sturdy + low price.

Just a repeat of what NIntendo fan boys have been saying since psp was annoused, always saying things like psp will have 2-3 hours battery life when it was reported that it would have around 10 hours of battery life. I dare u to make a list of what each portable has to offer and u'll see that gamers want psp, and no one said list had to be here.

IGN did a PSP vs. NDS review type vote, and guess what by the end the majority if not the whole crew voted for the psp. U seem to beleave that what Nintendo had to offer 10 - 15 years ago is acceptable now to win out a portable war. U can throw out all this Nintendo Fan boy propaganda, but what it comes down to is how many units each portable sells.

----NOW I RETURN U TO UR REGULARY SCHEDULED THRED-----

imported_The_One
08-15-2004, 06:47 AM
but what it comes down to is how many units each portable sells. If that is the case, the PSP would get MURDERED... SLAUGHTERED... ASSASINATED... Sony wouldn't even know what hit them... except a letter from their assasin signed "N-DS".

bRoNx
08-15-2004, 07:26 AM
but what it comes down to is how many units each portable sells. If that is the case, the PSP would get MURDERED... SLAUGHTERED... ASSASINATED... Sony wouldn't even know what hit them... except a letter from their assasin signed "N-DS".

I don't know if I can agree with your "MURDERED .. SLAUGHTERED .. blah" analogy. I mean, everyone says that the most important thing when it comes to consoles/handhelds are the games. Now, I believe PSP will offer a better gaming library quality-wise, as it'll be based off the PS2 library (plus new franchises exclusive to the PSP). Then there's gameplay. I think you'd agree that Sony have provided the best gameplays thus far. And then for the graphic-nuts, the PSP will look alot better than the DS. When I think about it, I'd rather play the PSP on the bus/train than a DS that just doesn't look "cool".

I think that N-DS will win saleswise, but the PSP will attract "new" gamers to the market, instead of stealing Nintendo's fanbase. Plus, the PSP is an all-in-one device, as opposed to the DS which only plays games, and makes toast! :lol:

games_ fan
08-15-2004, 10:47 AM
Instead of saying one is better that wins at polls blah blah blah why don't you just wait until they're both out and let the gamers decide. If you think one is better or is going to sell more thats your opinion it's not the same as the millions of gamers out there. And this isn't meant to be a ds v psp thread :roll:

migo
08-15-2004, 12:41 PM
Just a repeat of what NIntendo fan boys have been saying since psp was annoused, always saying things like psp will have 2-3 hours battery life when it was reported that it would have around 10 hours of battery life. I dare u to make a list of what each portable has to offer and u'll see that gamers want psp, and no one said list had to be here.

'Cept I'm not a Nintendo fanboy, I'm more of a Zodiac fan. Anyone who believes Sony's specs on anything they put out is a moron. They didn't deliver anywhere near the specs they promised with the PS2, it'll be the same with the PSP and the PS3. And show me anywhere that has solid confirmation on the PSP supposedly having 10 hours of battery life.


IGN did a PSP vs. NDS review type vote, and guess what by the end the majority if not the whole crew voted for the psp.

So?


U seem to beleave that what Nintendo had to offer 10 - 15 years ago is acceptable now to win out a portable war.

It is, it always has been. Despite the fact that other companies put out systems that at the time were far better than the GameBoy in terms of gameplay and technology they still got slaughtered by Nintendo. It took until the GBA for them to put out a system as powerful as the Atari Lynx - this was close to 10 years after the Lynx was released, and they didn't do it because of competition, they did it because they wanted access to the SNES game library. Yes, the fact that they're putting a new system out in response to the PSP is significant, but they're still going to be selling the GBA alongside the DS. The DS is backwards compatible with the GBA and all previous games, so it has access to the GBAs already extensive library, and like the PSone continued to get development well after the PS2 was released, the GBA is going to get continued development well after the DS is released. People with GBAs aren't going to be clamoring to buy a DS or a PSP as they'll continue to get support, and people buying a DS won't have to worry about not having access to enough games because they'll have the GBA library as well. It's exactly the same as PS2 vs Xbox. The Xbox has better graphics capabilities (real world, the processing potential of the PS2 is irrelevant if developers can't make use of all of it), but the PS2 is established and has backwards compatibility with an already extensive game library. Sony was able to get top spot with the PS1 against the N64 because it had a comparable library - the N64 had no backwards compatibility, and although the Saturn had backwards compatibility it wasn't popular enough in its own right, had a crappy library so the Dreamcast was coming in fresh as well. It's a whole different type of competition for Sony this time.


U can throw out all this Nintendo Fan boy propaganda, but what it comes down to is how many units each portable sells.

Yeah, and the DS is going to outsell the PSP, it's got a nice and comfortable head start on it.


Instead of saying one is better that wins at polls blah blah blah why don't you just wait until they're both out and let the gamers decide. If you think one is better or is going to sell more thats your opinion it's not the same as the millions of gamers out there. And this isn't meant to be a ds v psp thread

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm saying one's going to sell better than the other. It's exactly the same as the PS3 is going to outsell the other consoles, except this time it's Nintendo's ballgame instead of Sony's.

Ibanez32
08-15-2004, 05:57 PM
Instead of saying one is better that wins at polls blah blah blah why don't you just wait until they're both out and let the gamers decide. If you think one is better or is going to sell more thats your opinion it's not the same as the millions of gamers out there. And this isn't meant to be a ds v psp thread :roll:
Fair enough but once there both out it kinda defeats the object of discussion as there would be nowt to discuss :P

imported_The_One
08-15-2004, 06:15 PM
Yeah, and the DS is going to outsell the PSP, it's got a nice and comfortable head start on it. Yup, exactly what I meant. Although the goal of Sony isn't to outsell the DS, that's why I said the PSP would get murdered under this comparison. Sony has another goal for the PSP...

GUNDAMSEED
08-15-2004, 08:18 PM
'Cept I'm not a Nintendo fanboy, I'm more of a Zodiac fan. Anyone who believes Sony's specs on anything they put out is a moron. They didn't deliver anywhere near the specs they promised with the PS2, it'll be the same with the PSP and the PS3. And show me anywhere that has solid confirmation on the PSP supposedly having 10 hours of battery life.

It is, it always has been. Despite the fact that other companies put out systems that at the time were far better than the GameBoy in terms of gameplay and technology they still got slaughtered by Nintendo. It took until the GBA for them to put out a system as powerful as the Atari Lynx - this was close to 10 years after the Lynx was released, and they didn't do it because of competition, they did it because they wanted access to the SNES game library. Yes, the fact that they're putting a new system out in response to the PSP is significant, but they're still going to be selling the GBA alongside the DS. The DS is backwards compatible with the GBA and all previous games, so it has access to the GBAs already extensive library, and like the PSone continued to get development well after the PS2 was released, the GBA is going to get continued development well after the DS is released. People with GBAs aren't going to be clamoring to buy a DS or a PSP as they'll continue to get support, and people buying a DS won't have to worry about not having access to enough games because they'll have the GBA library as well. It's exactly the same as PS2 vs Xbox. The Xbox has better graphics capabilities (real world, the processing potential of the PS2 is irrelevant if developers can't make use of all of it), but the PS2 is established and has backwards compatibility with an already extensive game library. Sony was able to get top spot with the PS1 against the N64 because it had a comparable library - the N64 had no backwards compatibility, and although the Saturn had backwards compatibility it wasn't popular enough in its own right, had a crappy library so the Dreamcast was coming in fresh as well. It's a whole different type of competition for Sony this time.

From migo
.................................................. .................................................. ........

There is where you are wrong , sony did not lie about anything when came to ps2 . If your ones of those people that think ps2 was going to do FF8 cg in realtime well to bad for you .Also no company has push the ps2 to it's limts which is also fact, if any company can get done that be great . also the processing potential of the PS2 is not irrelevant . why because devs are now able to use more of the ps2 so i don't see how it can be irrelevant . Maybe your one of thoses guys that are going to say ps3 was supose to be 1TLOP where sony never said that which is what happen with ps2 alot of people said stuff but it was not from the mouth of sony . a

Alot of people said sony would have not done good in system world well guess what they now the leader.

Not that i am saying sony is going to win the hand held market from nintendo but you can bet they did not want sony to be in . here are some of the reason why nintendo can be in trouble .

1 .
There has never been a company that went into the handheld market vs the Nintendo that hand money or brand name that sony has .

2.
Think to your self do think the are going to be alot games on the gba like before .Before it was only GBA but now there GBA , DS and PSP devs are going to have to chose which handheld there are going to make games for. Unlike GBA it will take some money so small dev won't have money for both DS and PSP.

3.
There has never been a handheld that had so much backing from 3rd party devs other gba well this has change with the psp. The backing for the N gage and sega system was crap already compare to psp and it's not even out yet .

4.
Also don't say that some GBA people won't buy a psp they will before they had no choice but to buy a gba for gaming out side the home and there are people who would have love to play current games on the bus ,plane etc etc they now have that choice .

5.
Nintendo has alot to fear from psp, why do think that so many BIG N fans are trashing the psp . The handheld market is where big n makes the most of it's money . GBA is to nintendo like what windows in to MS .Sony has nothing to lose from the psp will it sell maybe not as much as the DS. Even if cuts into Nintendo sales only 10% that's profit form nintendo .

I can name many more . Is psp going to beat DS and GBA i don't think so , is it going to cause trouble from the BIG N in the long run this is question you should ask your self .

sorry about going way off topic .

SunDevil
08-15-2004, 08:53 PM
Good Bye

imported_The_One
08-15-2004, 10:30 PM
PS: In what way did the SEGA Saturn have backwards compatibility? I think he meant Dreamcast having backward compatibility with Saturn :??

migo
08-15-2004, 11:27 PM
There is where you are wrong , sony did not lie about anything when came to ps2 .

They claimed it would be magnitudes more powerful than the PS1 than it ended up being. This was before they had specs, but the closer it got to release date the more realistic it became.


Also no company has push the ps2 to it's limts which is also fact, if any company can get done that be great . also the processing potential of the PS2 is not irrelevant .

You missed the point. The point was despite the processing potential of the PS2, the Xbox has more of its potential realised and is therefore the more powerful system for all intents and purposes.


Alot of people said sony would have not done good in system world well guess what they now the leader.

They were working with Nintendo that time though, they did a whole lot of research into a disc system and when Nintendo decided against it they went ahead and finished it. This time they're not working with Nintendo, which clearly has the experience in the handheld market.


1 .
There has never been a company that went into the handheld market vs the Nintendo that hand money or brand name that sony has .

Money maybe not, but brand name: Sega, Atari.


2.
Think to your self do think the are going to be alot games on the gba like before .Before it was only GBA but now there GBA , DS and PSP devs are going to have to chose which handheld there are going to make games for. Unlike GBA it will take some money so small dev won't have money for both DS and PSP.

DS has the head start, it's already got a lot more titles than are projected for PSP and Nintendo has a lot of big name third party publishers backing them. I'd be willing to bet that a small time dev is more likely to develop for the GBA or DS than the PSP as the PS is notoriously hard to program for - it's easy to port from PS and PS2, but developing entirely new games is going to be just as hard as it was the first time around. Then when you consider that technologically the DS has much lower expectations for games than the PSP, the DS is definitely a lot more friendly to small time developers.


3.
There has never been a handheld that had so much backing from 3rd party devs other gba well this has change with the psp. The backing for the N gage and sega system was crap already compare to psp and it's not even out yet .

Yeah, that's before it's release. We'll see what happens after it gets released and the DS gets released.


4.
Also don't say that some GBA people won't buy a psp they will before they had no choice but to buy a gba for gaming out side the home and there are people who would have love to play current games on the bus ,plane etc etc they now have that choice .


I never said anything to that effect, and it's not the point anyway.


5.
Nintendo has alot to fear from psp, why do think that so many BIG N fans are trashing the psp . The handheld market is where big n makes the most of it's money . GBA is to nintendo like what windows in to MS .Sony has nothing to lose from the psp will it sell maybe not as much as the DS. Even if cuts into Nintendo sales only 10% that's profit form nintendo .

They have nothing to fear as long as they aren't caught sleeping like they were last time.


nor have they lied about the power of the PSP

How would you know? It's not going to be out until next year. :roll:


most likely aren't lieing about the PS3.

Considering they haven't made any solid claims yet, no, but they're undoubtably exaggerating the capabilities.


None of the specs SONY stated are outside the realm of possibility, or outside of what's already been achieved on the hardware.

Doesn't mean it's actually going to happen.


Zodiac is a piece of trash. It's a hollow attempt at being a me-too in the hand-held gaming market.

It's not targetting the handheld gaming market, it's targeting the PDA as gaming system market by making a PDA that's actually comfortable to use to play games.


It's overpriced, underperforming, and underspeced.

Umm, Motorola ARM9 200MHz is not underspeced for a Palm OS device.


It is basically about the power of a PSOne in something the size of a PDA with a PDA price, and is therefore not a serious contender in the hand-held gaming market.

And guess what, it's a PDA. It costs as much as a PDA, does everything a PDA does, and plays games better than any PDA out there. Now is it starting to make sense? It's a PDA with gaming capabilities, not a handheld gaming system with PDA capabilities. It's not trying to be a contender in the handheld gaming market, it's trying to be a contender in the PDA market.


Then we have the games, all five or so of them. There are maybe fifteen games now and next year there will be how many.... fifteen did you say

It's primary appeal is as an emulator (for most people) so it has a huge library of emulated titles to work with, plus all the standard Palm OS games. As for Zodiac specific games it's already at 34 games. No other Palm OS or PPC device has that many exclusive games.


They're almost all ports or freeware quality knock-offs of better titles did you say?

Only about half of them, but that's really not the point.

The Zodiac is a PDA first (as should be obvious by the fact that it runs Palm OS 5.2) and a gaming device second. It seems a lot of gamers don't realise that simple fact, which is quite all right as they're not the target audience anyway.



I'm sorry, but that post had absolutely no validity

You're right, your post did have absolutely no validity.


I think he meant Dreamcast having backward compatibility with Saturn

No I'm talking about the fact that it supported Genesis cartridges

GUNDAMSEED
08-16-2004, 02:24 AM
No I'm talking about the fact that it supported Genesis cartridges
From migo

man do some damn reading up i had a SS still have one and it was not backwards compatiable with the Genesis.

i don't want to go off topic any more but sega and Atari having the same type of brand names as SONY . WHAT WORLD are you living in . you talk alot of trash like how the psp is going to be hard to program for so it makes no sense trying to tell you anything .

SunDevil
08-16-2004, 05:01 AM
Good Bye

Xeno
08-16-2004, 05:06 AM
Migo,

I've never been interested in handhelds but the PSP and it's gaming list make me want to buy one.GT4 for PSP alone will own the DS if you look at it's predecessor GT3 ,13 million units sold(bundle packs included). Graphics wise this handheld can hold it's own with the PS2 and that could mean a possible GTA:SA or version to be ported to it!Could you imagine PSP sales with a GTA titles announced who wouldnt want to play this game anywheres possible.Sony can easily persuade Rockstar since they got them out of trouble recently.

http://www.digitalbackspin.com/adm/templates/news-tmp.asp?articleid=1208&zoneid=1



Sony unveils 70 new PSP titles; Full list now exceeds 100!
Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - Staff

We won't bore you with stats and facts, we'll just let you peruse the ever growing list of games, and their developers.


AC Formula Front (Agetec)
Action Girlz Racing (Data Design)
Activision Anthology (Activision)
AI Series: Igo (Marvellous)
AI Series: Mahjong (Marvellous)
AI Series: Shougo (Marvellous)
Ape Escape (SCEE)
ATV Offroad Fury (Sony)
Autobahn Crossroads (Resolution)
Axel Impact International (SCEK / Axis)
Azaya: Jungle Bowl Champions (Jungle Peak)
Battle Blades (Data Design)
BBG (Seed9)
Big Choppers (Eutechnyx)
Big Mutha Truckers 2 (Eutechnyx)
Board Game Gallery (Phoenix Games)
Burnout (Criterion)
Bust-A-Move (Taito)
Car Jacker (Eutechnyx)
Card Shark 3 (Phoenix Games)
Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion
Cloud of Verruca (Success)
Clusterball 2 (Resolution)
Crazy Racing Kart Rider (Nexon)
Dance Mat Challenge (Data Design)
Darkstalkers Chronicle (Capcom)
Death Jr (Sony)
Derby (SCEI)
Doko Demo Issyo
Doraslot (Dorat)
Dynasty Warriors (Koei)
Everybody's Golf (Sony)
Fighting Spirits (SCEA)
Formula One 04 (SCEE/Evolution)
Free Running (Eidos)
Frogger (Konami)
Generation of Chaos (Idea Factory)
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (SCEI)
Gran Turismo 4 (also referred to as Gran Turismo Mobile)
Habitrail Hamster Ball (Data Design)
Hard Corps (SCEE)
Harvest Moon (Natsume)
Infected (Planet Moon)
Intelligent License (Now Production)
Joe (HumanSoft)
Junior Sports Basketball (Data Design)
Junior Sports Hockey (Data Design)
Koron (CyberFront)
Legend of River King (Marvellous)
Mahjong Kakutou (Konami)
Mahjong Taikai (Koei)
Makai Wars (Nippon Ichi)
Medieval (SCEE)
Mercury (Ignition)
Metal Gear Acid (Konami)
Metal Shell (Tantalus)
Myth Makers Karting (Data Design)
NBA Shootout 2005 (SCEA)
NBA Street (EA)
Need for Speed Underground (EA)
NFL Street (EA)
NHL Face Off 2005 (SCEA)
Ninja Bunny Warriors (Data Design)
Offroad Xtreme (Data Design)
Pilot ni Narou (Marvellous)
Popolocrois Monogatari (SCEI)
Powerful Pro Yakyuu (Konami)
Professional Wrestling (Yuke's)
Project S (Sega)
Puyo Pop Fever (Sega)
Ren Goku: The Tower Of Purgatory (Hudson)
Ridge Racer (Namco)
Rig Racing (Data Design)
Romance of Three Kingdoms (Koei)
RS Revolution (Spike)
Shin Mojibittan (Namco)
Shin Tenmakai (Idea Factory)
Shingata (Sunrise)
Sparrow Merit (Success)
Spiderman 2 (Sony)
Sprint Madness (Resolution)
Sticky Balls (Warthog)
Super Star Studio (Coong)
Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow (SCEA)
Tales of Arcadia
Talkman (SCEI)
Technic Cute (Arika)
Tengai Makyou (Hudson/Red)
Ten-No-Kagi-Chi-No-Mon
TGM-K (Arika)
The Gaghary (Bandai)
This is Football 2005 (SCEE)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour (EA)
Tokyo Xtreme Racing (Genki)
Tony Hawk's Underground 2 (Activision/Neversoft)
Transformers (Atari/Melbourne House)
Twisted Metal: World Tour (SCEA/Incog)
Vegas Casino 2 (Phoenix Games)
VIVA Football (DC-Studios)
Volcanus Online (Zepetto)
Wipeout Pure (SCEA)
World Soccer Winning Eleven 8 (Konami)
World Tour Soccer 2005 (SCEE/Studio Soho)
WRC (SCEE/Evolution)
Ys VI: The Arc Of Antipasti (Konami)
Zero Hour (Argonaut)
Zooo (Success)

Ok, so TWO facts.

PSP Now boasts 32MB of Ram. The same as the PS2.

A new title, "Talkman" was shown that will be available at PSP launch. This title is a "universal translator". It takes spoken words in through a microphone and then translates them, out putting the results through the system's speaker. The demostration given at Playstation Meeting 2004 was "very impressinve" according to sources who witnessed the software in action.

*edit*


To me PSP looks more appealing to mainstream POP culture NA,Europe and Japan,the areas with the greatest gaming sales.

PSP
http://www.gamesarefun.com/e3/e3photos/psp/11.jpg
http://www.gamesarefun.com/e3/e3photos/psp/13.jpg
http://www.gamesarefun.com/e3/e3photos/psp/08.jpg

Nintendo DS
http://www.nintendo.com/ds/img/games/main_DSoverview_lrg.jpg

migo
08-16-2004, 10:24 AM
i don't want to go off topic any more but sega and Atari having the same type of brand names as SONY . WHAT WORLD are you living in .

In the gaming world they did. It doesn't matter what name they have outside of it. Both were big in the console market but that didn't help them get a piece of Nintendo's pie. Panasonic's brand name didn't help them much with the 3DO either.


you talk alot of trash like how the psp is going to be hard to program for so it makes no sense trying to tell you anything .

It'll be just as hard to program for as the PS2 as it's based on the same platform.


First off, Zodiac is targeting the handheld gaming market, otherwise it wouldn't play games, and it wouldn't advertise itself as a gaming device in gaming magazines (EGM for example).

If playing games means it's targeted at the handheld gaming market then most cell phones, PPCs and Palms are targeted at the handheld gaming market. It's targeted at PDA users who want better gaming capabilities, who usually have a PDA and a GBA as previously the only PDAs which had decent gaming ergonomics were the Casio E1xx and E-200.


Second, an Arm9 CPU is indeed not under-speced for a Palm device, but it doesn't change the fact that it is still only on par with ten year old technology.

You say that like it has significance. It's a Palm OS device, it only has to be on par with 10 year old technology.


Third, PSP is due out this year in Japan (is it not?),

End of the year.


and people have played them. People have touched them. The hardware is final, and the specs are final and apparent as games are almost in final development stages. WYSIWYG it's reality, deal with it.

If the hardware is final it's not a good sign, they still have work to do on power consumption to make it a decent handheld gaming system.


Sixth, I said that everything SONY stated for the PS2 has happened, not that everything for the PS3/PSP would happen. Furthermore, SONY never made any false claims of how powerful the PS2 was in comparrison to the PSOne, only statements of what they would like in the future (Not PS2!!!).

Riiiight, so you think that before the PS2 was out they were talking about the PS3 with their power claims? Get a grip.


Seventh, and final as this is overstepping the line that I like to call welcome, I don't argue with children, the mentally ill, or those whose egos are swelled either by stimulants by gaul or by idiocy, consider this argumant over.

This concludes my tainting of this thread with this petty squabble. I think I have thoroughly proven you invalid.

Whatever makes you feel better. :roll:


I've never been interested in handhelds but the PSP and it's gaming list make me want to buy one.GT4 for PSP alone will own the DS if you look at it's predecessor GT3 ,13 million units sold(bundle packs included). Graphics wise this handheld can hold it's own with the PS2 and that could mean a possible GTA:SA or version to be ported to it!Could you imagine PSP sales with a GTA titles announced who wouldnt want to play this game anywheres possible.Sony can easily persuade Rockstar since they got them out of trouble recently.

And you think that Metroid, Zelda and Mario won't have equal appeal on the DS? Not to mention that Nintendo owns the handheld market right now. Even a fraction of GBA users buying the DS would beat what GT and GTA would bring to the PSP.


Sony unveils 70 new PSP titles; Full list now exceeds 100!

DS already has over 120, and it's backwards compatible with all previous GB games.


To me PSP looks more appealing to mainstream POP culture NA,Europe and Japan,the areas with the greatest gaming sales.

Yeah, but money talks, the DS is likely to go for $200, the PSP is likely to go for $300. Not to mention the fact that the DS has a much more sturdy design. PSP is going to need something like a glasses case to protect it, the DS can just be closed and it's all protected. It has a much better design for portable gaming. The PSP is a PS2 that happens to be easily transportable, just like the Zodiac is a PDA that can play games well, the DS is designed from the ground up to be portable. It has good battery life, no moving parts and it's not easily breakable.

threepac3
08-16-2004, 11:01 AM
This thread is already waaay off target, and I'm not sure of the validity of it to begin with, but it still feels bad to fight in it. Sorry about that guys, and ladies as I suppose you're here too.


Notice i stopped arguing with him, there is noway in hell hes ever going to change his mind. hmmm sure reminds me of someone else... :?

Domination
08-16-2004, 03:35 PM
It'll be just as hard to program for as the PS2 as it's based on the same platform.

How are you so sure of this,Migo?Can you explain this to me?What I have read about the PSP is some of its hardware being more powerful than even the PS2,some hardware being as powerful as PS2,and some hardware being less powerful than the PS2.I have also read that some developers claimed it being easier to prgram for than the PS2.

This was before the developers commented on the friendly access Sony provided for PSP:

To promote early development of games, SCE plans to distribute development kits for the PC that will emulate the PSP at about a 10th of its actual speed. A more complete hardware-based developer kit will be released in spring 2004.SCE aims to make programming software for the PSP as easy to develop as the original PlayStation, and it also aims to provide programmers with a number of libraries and middleware to support development.

Now,I would just like to know how you saw different.I am awaiting you comment on this.

You are absolutely right about the PS3 launching later,but how can you consider its specs being wrong if you haven't seen them,therefore claiming Sony as a fraud?That is what you are basically saying,right?That would be considered pessimism,wouldn't it?As a matter a fact,just answer this for me: Do you believe the PS3 processor will be the weakest of the three competitors?If so,then how so?If not,then explain your answer.I am awaiting your comment on this.

SunDevil
08-16-2004, 08:40 PM
Good Bye

Xeno
08-16-2004, 08:57 PM
Yeah, but money talks, the DS is likely to go for $200, the PSP is likely to go for $300. Not to mention the fact that the DS has a much more sturdy design. PSP is going to need something like a glasses case to protect it, the DS can just be closed and it's all protected. It has a much better design for portable gaming. The PSP is a PS2 that happens to be easily transportable, just like the Zodiac is a PDA that can play games well, the DS is designed from the ground up to be portable. It has good battery life, no moving parts and it's not easily breakable.


As you said money talks:

PS2 units sold = 75+ million

GT3 units sold = 12.9+ million (including bundles)

Since sales make the money it would mean sales do the talking.So im guessing PSP will be a huge success considering so many people own PS2s and love the GT series.

Who the hell wants to play games like Mario or Metroid?Sales numbers show nobody in contrast to PS games. :wink:

Well here's a feature the Nintendo Ds won't support.

http://psp.ign.com/articles/516/516093p1.html?fromint=1




E3 2004: Wi-Fi Online Games


May 15, 2004 - Sony made a big deal out of the PSP this year -- for good reason, of course -- but still didn't make quite as big a deal as we had hoped. For instance, the Wi-Fi online capabilities of the PSP, through use of the IEEE 802.11b networking protocol built into the system, were hardly touched upon. The interface wasn't shown, and no game was actually shown with wi-fi play in action. The PSP can actually play games online against other players -- not just infrared with somebody in the same room, but actually online against another player on the globe so long as you have a wi-fi hotspot in the area to logon to a network -- via this feature, so that's a very big deal, but Sony was apparently not yet ready to make a big splash with the wi-fi functionality.

Oh yea! go check out the PSP online titles. GT4 is among them. :twisted:

Domination
08-16-2004, 11:05 PM
This guy is most likely, Dead_Meat as we haven't seen him in a while, and seems to have the same writing type, and passion for angering people with stupidity, but oh well, as I said, water under the bridge. Ads in gaming mags touting it as the first hand-held gaming system with console power doesn't defend your argumant very well I'm afraid.

Developers have stated that it actually is quite easy to develop games for the PSP, and it's quite apparent if you consider that some of the games and demos at E3 were made in under six weeks. Not too shabby from a developers standpoint. Good thing though, because two generations have passed and it really can be a chore to develop for either the PSOne or the PS2. It's good to see SONY taking the initiative to provide a friendly programming and development environment this round. Guess it's kind of a necessity though.




Later


Iridius Dio

I'm thinking this guy is Deatmeat,too.When I first read his post,that immediately popped in my head.It seems as if he is trying to hide his identity to keep from getting banned.

And yes,I remember reading that issue.Actually,that is how I knew the PSP was easy to program for.

axia777
08-16-2004, 11:43 PM
XBN will most likely, from all public info avaliable, come in 2005. If Microsoft is lucky and everything works out. One thing that annoys the hell out of me is Xbox Fanboys seem to think XBN is in the bag, that no problems could possibly come up. Yah, right. Same could be said for PS fanboys and PS3 though. PS3 is mostly likely going to come out 2006. If Sony is again luck and all works out. I predict that most people will wait for PS3, just like PS2 and Dreamcast. XBN will be the new Dreamcast, in that it will sell a few million units, but PS3 is gonna blow the roof off the house, in a manner of speaking.

imported_The_One
08-17-2004, 04:28 AM
Good thing SOMEONE is being on topic ;) (I'm talking about you Axia).

Migo being Deadmeat is not a good sign... But, just to add to this stupid little argument of yours, Migo:
the PSP and the DS are not direct competitors. PSP is aimed at older audience, with it's moving watching capabilities and confirmed Cell Phone add on. While DS is a pure gaming handheld.
The sale of the DS would greatly out number the PSP for sure, but that doesn't really matter, since Sony isn't looking to eat the entire pie in one bite.

Hmm... anything else? Nope, have a nice day ladies and gentlemen.

migo
08-17-2004, 04:05 PM
As you said money talks:

PS2 units sold = 75+ million

GT3 units sold = 12.9+ million (including bundles)

Since sales make the money it would mean sales do the talking.So im guessing PSP will be a huge success considering so many people own PS2s and love the GT series.

You're assuming that everyone who's bought it for the PS2 will want to buy it for the PSP. I know quite a lot of people who say they don't want to play console games on the go, so it's certainly not going to sell as well as the PS2 version did.


Who the hell wants to play games like Mario or Metroid?Sales numbers show nobody in contrast to PS games. :wink:

Mario's one of the biggest franchises out there, and Metroid is also very popular. If Metroid was on the PS2 I wouldn't be surprised to see it outsell most other games. The fact that it's on the GC is holding it back.


Well here's a feature the Nintendo Ds won't support.

http://psp.ign.com/articles/516/516093p1.html?fromint=1


Oh yea! go check out the PSP online titles. GT4 is among them. :twisted:

Last I heard the DS had both WiFi and bluetoothesque capabilities (although they're not using BT but their own proprietary format).


How are you so sure of this,Migo?Can you explain this to me?What I have read about the PSP is some of its hardware being more powerful than even the PS2,some hardware being as powerful as PS2,and some hardware being less powerful than the PS2.I have also read that some developers claimed it being easier to prgram for than the PS2.

Those developers have already programmed on the PS2 so they have some experience with it. I just don't see a platform with the same hardware base as the PS2 being significantly easier to program for than the PS2.


This was before the developers commented on the friendly access Sony provided for PSP:

To promote early development of games, SCE plans to distribute development kits for the PC that will emulate the PSP at about a 10th of its actual speed. A more complete hardware-based developer kit will be released in spring 2004.SCE aims to make programming software for the PSP as easy to develop as the original PlayStation, and it also aims to provide programmers with a number of libraries and middleware to support development.

Yeah, they AIM to make it as easy to program for, doesn't mean it is.

kevindenoyette
08-17-2004, 04:12 PM
It's pretty much generally accepted that the psp is easier to develop for than the ps 2. It's on a lot of sites, simpler architecture and stuff.

Xeno
08-17-2004, 04:39 PM
Miyamoto replied, "That's right. Well, what Nintendo has always been pursuing is mostly the connection of DS systems. But, if you had wireless LAN in your home, and an application or an OS was released that connected to it, it would be possible to use the DS as an Internet terminal."


Playing DS online is like only being able to use a cell phone in the washroom.


You're assuming that everyone who's bought it for the PS2 will want to buy it for the PSP. I know quite a lot of people who say they don't want to play console games on the go, so it's certainly not going to sell as well as the PS2 version did.


You know 75 million PS2 users? I didn't say everyone who owns a PS2.I think a few million people will buy into the PSP over time because it will have games like MGS and GT4.


Mario's one of the biggest franchises out there, and Metroid is also very popular. If Metroid was on the PS2 I wouldn't be surprised to see it outsell most other games. The fact that it's on the GC is holding it back.


I agree Mario is a very popular and successful franchise but it's a rated E series for 10 year olds like most Nintendo games.I grew out of jumping on plants and turtles a decade ago and moved on to burning down the city like in GTA which millions of other gamers have also done apparently.If Mario was still the success it was 20 years ago GC would have sold well over 15 million consoles but it didn't.

Domination
08-17-2004, 05:20 PM
How are you so sure of this,Migo?Can you explain this to me?What I have read about the PSP is some of its hardware being more powerful than even the PS2,some hardware being as powerful as PS2,and some hardware being less powerful than the PS2.I have also read that some developers claimed it being easier to prgram for than the PS2.

Those developers have already programmed on the PS2 so they have some experience with it. I just don't see a platform with the same hardware base as the PS2 being significantly easier to program for than the PS2.


This was before the developers commented on the friendly access Sony provided for PSP:

To promote early development of games, SCE plans to distribute development kits for the PC that will emulate the PSP at about a 10th of its actual speed. A more complete hardware-based developer kit will be released in spring 2004.SCE aims to make programming software for the PSP as easy to develop as the original PlayStation, and it also aims to provide programmers with a number of libraries and middleware to support development.

Yeah, they AIM to make it as easy to program for, doesn't mean it is.

You are definitely Deadmeat.Not only have you dodged my last question,not only have you not defended your current screen name,but you didn't even pay any attention to what I wrote.Either that or you're ignoring them.

I have already mention the developers praising the PSP more friendly tools/easy programmability AFTER Sony was aiming to make the PSP easy to work with,not before this time.Which means Sony must have succeeded if developers thought it was easier to program for than the PS2.If not,then those same developers would have said something alone the lines of,"We have worked with the PS2's hardware before;so working with the PSP hardware (which is basically the same) only required minor adjustments".But,they didn't say this or anything to its caliber.They said it was much easier to develope for than the PS2.

threepac3
08-17-2004, 06:22 PM
Told ya that this guy reminds me of someone, he also reminds me of a stalker. Deatmeat just wont leave the board alone... This guy does not recognize other ppls ideas and or points just gives an opposing one to support his.

This thread will never be back on topic fully--might as well be locked.

imported_The_One
08-17-2004, 08:58 PM
Just get Matt to do an IP check on him... If the IP's are the same... IP BAN. Unless, of course, Deadmeat is too poor too afford Broadband internet :twisted:.

migo
08-20-2004, 08:12 PM
Just get Matt to do an IP check on him... If the IP's are the same... IP BAN. Unless, of course, Deadmeat is too poor too afford Broadband internet :twisted:.

Finally someone suggests it. I already said once that I'm not him, I don't need to keep answering the same stupid questions regarding it. Last I checked UBC doesn't use static IPs for wireless though.

Domination
08-21-2004, 12:37 AM
Just get Matt to do an IP check on him... If the IP's are the same... IP BAN. Unless, of course, Deadmeat is too poor too afford Broadband internet :twisted:.

Finally someone suggests it. I already said once that I'm not him, I don't need to keep answering the same stupid questions regarding it. Last I checked UBC doesn't use static IPs for wireless though.

So that's how you kep getting so many new accounts over at Beyond 3D after then banned you.