PS3 12x more power, any spec speculations

[shaudeus]

If the goal of Ps3, which most probably is overhyped is 12 times the power of ps2 and the emotion engine im just wondering what people think would be the specs if they were able to achive this, assuming the cell would truly reach 1 tflop/sec?

[SevenDesigns]

Hopefully they can pull it off. I'm tired of all these Xbox fanboys putting down the PS2.

If they can do this, i'll be happy. But wasn't the number a bit higher? Either way, this is great news if they actually do it.

Peace

[psychogenicscc]

I predict that it will be alot more than 12x since the original specs called for 1000x the performance of PS2.

[RichardCypher101]

Thats 1000X the performance of its current Processor. That is NOT overall performance.

-Rich

[Paul]

Thats 1000X the performance of its current Processor. That is NOT overall performance.

This is wrong. It's total performance of the Playstation 3 over the PS2. That being said, don't expect Broadband Engine at 50Ghz, or shit like that. You don't times everything by 1000, it all adds up. For Example, BE could very well be 400 times the overall power of EE by itself. The rest will add in.

[gaming ultima]

i expect the cpu to be roughly 200x (if u do the math u will work out why)
and the XDR it says in the ps3i faq it will be over 100GB/s and even if thts wrong and its only say 50GB/s thts a dam lot
the gpu will prob be a graphical version of cell so it will be very very powerful (visualiser anybody?) as for the rest it is only speculation
anyways there is no 1 distinct way of saying how many x for performance of the ps3 is from the ps2, u just carnt look at overall system performance u got to look at individual bits
and paul i dont know if u know but the clock speed isnt a measurment of processing power
if u didnt know theb follow this link

http://www.playstation3insider.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=196

[Omega Blue]

Sony showed a chart and i think the Memory that sony is gonna use transfers at around 23 GB/s, i have no idea where you got 100 or even 50 GB/s but thats false. and Shadues you bias poll prevents me from voting, but the Ps3 will be at least 12x more powerful, just depending on what aspect even over all of what your comparing. but like i said both options are biased, in one option your sayin Sony will Fail and in the other your sayin the same thing but in diffrent context.

[ainsley]

Ken Kutaragi said SONY are aiming for 1000x the power of ps2. I think he meant the overall power, maybe the raw(no special effects) polygon count per second(pps). When the specification for the nxt generation Playstation they always use this for calculating its performance. But i dont i think its intirely accurate, because its real time pps (all special effects ON, basically wot u and i see) could be weak compared to its raw polygon performance. Nintendo decided to publish performance specs using real time pps and they probly done that because the gcs real time pps performance might have more impressive than its raw pps performance. I think all three next gen console companys should release performance figure using real time and raw pps figures, then again they could just lie out of there arses. Its a shame there are no benchmarking tools (eg. 3dmark PC) for consoles then we'd really have a better idea.

Anyway wots the raw pps of the ps2? I think its something like 38,0000. So times that by 1000x = 3800000000...Hoooly shit.

By the way the vote is stupid, theres no choice for saying the ps3 will be MORE than 12x the power of of PS2. I think the poll should be changed from being biased.

[RichardCypher101]

Thats 1000X the performance of its current Processor. That is NOT overall performance.

This is wrong. It's total performance of the Playstation 3 over the PS2. That being said, don't expect Broadband Engine at 50Ghz, or shit like that. You don't times everything by 1000, it all adds up. For Example, BE could very well be 400 times the overall power of EE by itself. The rest will add in.

There is no current evidence stating that the system as a whole is 1000x more powerful. Sorry my friend, you labeled me wrong, when you have no evidence to back up your accusations. The only real piece of hardware we have to work with is the "Cell".

-Rich

[Omega Blue]

the Cell will be 200x (if reaching its 1000GFLOPS mark) more powerful then the EE. and power estimation is not culimative.

[ainsley]

the Cell will be 200x (if reaching its 1000GFLOPS mark) more powerful then the EE. and power estimation is not culimative.

wots EE?

[Omega Blue]

the Ps2's Processor named The Emotion Engine.

[gaming ultima]

Sony showed a chart and i think the Memory that sony is gonna use transfers at around 23 GB/s, i have no idea where you got 100 or even 50 GB/s but thats false. and Shadues you bias poll prevents me from voting, but the Ps3 will be at least 12x more powerful, just depending on what aspect even over all of what your comparing. but like i said both options are biased, in one option your sayin Sony will Fail and in the other your sayin the same thing but in diffrent context.
i got it from here http://www.ps3insider.com/modules.php?name=FAQ&myfaq=yes&id_cat=1&categories =Playstation+3+Console+Hardware+Questions
if ya wanna know why scott i think it was said tht ask him (but he wont replie to a pm or e-mail) and i trust him on tht 1 tht he isnt talking bullshit because tht guy knows wot he is talking about mainly when it comes to networking but anyways

[Althalus]

4ghz cpu sounds pretty darn meaty. I don't think these spacs will be what the have in the final design. I would say 3ghz at the most.

[Paul]

There is no current evidence stating that the system as a whole is 1000x more powerful. Sorry my friend, you labeled me wrong, when you have no evidence to back up your accusations. The only real piece of hardware we have to work with is the "Cell".


I never said PS3 was 1000X that of PS2, it doesn't exist yet! However, this is the goal as stated by Okamoto at GDC 2002.

http://www.tmalliance.com/uploads/024176/gdckey12.jpg

[shaudeus]

i originally did place the poll with 3 options, but once subitted the third didnt show- i dont think there is a way to correct the poll is there?

[Scott R. Mraz]

i originally did place the poll with 3 options, but once subitted the third didnt show- i dont think there is a way to correct the poll is there?

Yes, there is, simply edit your orginal post and you can edit the poll as well.

[SunDevil]

Good Bye

[Omega Blue]

that video memory, BIG DIFFRENCE between main memory and video memory. this is a pet peeve of mine that i have to clear up when someone confuses Main Memory and VRAM.

[gaming ultima]

all i was stating is wot has been put on the ps3i hardware faq bit
this isnt my fight so im backing out
scott or which ever 1 or u wrote tht at least hav the decency to get involved here and back up wot u wrote

[Ironlungz]

Hey...

Have you guys seen this article over at gamepro.com....

Posted: 01/28/04
Toshiba and Sony are about begin trial production of semiconductor chips that will be the precursor to the Cell chip that is expected to be used in the PlayStation 3. The manufacturing process is more advanced than any in commercial use today, requiring the construction of a new production facility.
Junichi Nagaki, a spokesman for Toshiba, has stated that the trial production of sample chips using the 65-nanomter (one nanometer is a billionth of a meter) technology will begin in 2004. The company will produce system LSI (large scale integrated circuit) chips on a trial line at its Yokohama, Japan, factory and distribute them to customers for evaluation purposes. Commercial production is not expected to begin until the first half of Toshiba's 2005 fiscal year, which is from April to 2005, said the spokesman.

The chips will be manufactured in a new factory currently under construction at Toshiba's plant in Oita prefecture, Japan. The factory, which will process 300-milimeter wafers, is expected to be completed in January 2004, with production on a 90-nanometer process beginning in mid-2004. Production will then be upgraded to handle the 65-nanometer process.

"This is the fundamental technology for 65-nanometer chips," said Shinji Obana, a spokesman for Sony in Tokyo. He said the two companies have already succeeded in producing a sample system LSI that also contains 32M bits of embedded memory. "We tested the device and it works correctly."

The system LSI chips, while falling short of a prototype Cell processor, will be one of the first steps that Sony needs to take towards mass production of the chip, he said.

Other companies have just begun to switch from 130-nanometer generation technology to 90-nanometer technology, with NEC Electronics announcing in November plans to invest 60 billion yen (US$545 million) on building a 90-nanometer line at its factory in Yamagata prefecture to begin production in late 2004.

The smaller nanometer measure is significant because as the resolution gets finer, more components can be crammed onto a chip's surface, leading to more powerful chips that consume less power.

Given that Toshiba expects commercial production of the chip to start on April 2005 at the earliest, we can expect production of the PS3 to start no earlier than mid-2005.

Any thoughts?

[SuNnYBoY]

Right now im thinking its over-hyped, its alot of talk about this but its jus building me up for the interest of the game

I mean to me its over-hyped a lilttle but no matter what im getting it and i kno its gonne be times the power of PS2 but i dont dont if it will be 12x the power

[SunDevil]

Good Bye

[BLASTOX']

My Toughts :idea:

Overall performance
:arrow: 16 to 64 times
Between 64 to 192 Gigaflops
:wink:

[gaming ultima]

i think its almost certain tht the ps3 will be more then 12 times the performance when it comes to procesing and graphics as if u look at the ps2 from the ps1. i mean the ps1 could do wot 350k poly's a sec (though i carnt remember whether tht was raw or not) but even if tht wasnt raw the ps2 can still do like 100 times and as for processing it only did a couple of MFLOPS where the the ps2 did 6.2GFLOPS.

[Scott R. Mraz]

Thats 1000X the performance of its current Processor. That is NOT overall performance.

This is wrong. It's total performance of the Playstation 3 over the PS2. That being said, don't expect Broadband Engine at 50Ghz, or shit like that. You don't times everything by 1000, it all adds up. For Example, BE could very well be 400 times the overall power of EE by itself. The rest will add in.

Actually Sony never stated whether or not they intend the ps3 to be a 1000x the performance of the ps2 in all areas. And as a matter of fact, that is VERY unlikely, and quite frankly- nearly impossible. Obviously this "1000x faster than the ps2" was a marketing ploy and in reference to precieved performance imporvement and not physical performance of any aspect of the system.

[Scott R. Mraz]

all i was stating is wot has been put on the ps3i hardware faq bit
this isnt my fight so im backing out
scott or which ever 1 or u wrote tht at least hav the decency to get involved here and back up wot u wrote

What are you talking about man?

[gaming ultima]

all i was stating is wot has been put on the ps3i hardware faq bit
this isnt my fight so im backing out
scott or which ever 1 or u wrote tht at least hav the decency to get involved here and back up wot u wrote

What are you talking about man?
if u go back to the first page where i made my second post in this thread u will see



Sony showed a chart and i think the Memory that sony is gonna use transfers at around 23 GB/s, i have no idea where you got 100 or even 50 GB/s but thats false. and Shadues you bias poll prevents me from voting, but the Ps3 will be at least 12x more powerful, just depending on what aspect even over all of what your comparing. but like i said both options are biased, in one option your sayin Sony will Fail and in the other your sayin the same thing but in diffrent context.

i got it from here http://www.ps3insider.com/modules.php?name=FAQ&myfaq=yes&id_cat=1&categories =Playstation+3+Console+Hardware+Questions
if ya wanna know why scott i think it was said tht ask him (but he wont replie to a pm or e-mail) and i trust him on tht 1 tht he isnt talking bullshit because tht guy knows wot he is talking about mainly when it comes to networking but anyways

so thts wot im talking about

[Scott R. Mraz]

all i was stating is wot has been put on the ps3i hardware faq bit
this isnt my fight so im backing out
scott or which ever 1 or u wrote tht at least hav the decency to get involved here and back up wot u wrote

What are you talking about man?
if u go back to the first page where i made my second post in this thread u will see



Sony showed a chart and i think the Memory that sony is gonna use transfers at around 23 GB/s, i have no idea where you got 100 or even 50 GB/s but thats false. and Shadues you bias poll prevents me from voting, but the Ps3 will be at least 12x more powerful, just depending on what aspect even over all of what your comparing. but like i said both options are biased, in one option your sayin Sony will Fail and in the other your sayin the same thing but in diffrent context.

i got it from here http://www.ps3insider.com/modules.php?name=FAQ&myfaq=yes&id_cat=1&categories =Playstation+3+Console+Hardware+Questions
if ya wanna know why scott i think it was said tht ask him (but he wont replie to a pm or e-mail) and i trust him on tht 1 tht he isnt talking bullshit because tht guy knows wot he is talking about mainly when it comes to networking but anyways

so thts wot im talking about

Ok, gotcha. Thanks.

I believe this is what you two are referencing:


Memory Bandwidth: (dual-channel = 102.4 GB/s)

This is indeed the likely memory bandwidth of the PS3.

[Paul]

Actually Sony never stated whether or not they intend the ps3 to be a 1000x the performance of the ps2 in all areas. And as a matter of fact, that is VERY unlikely, and quite frankly- nearly impossible. Obviously this "1000x faster than the ps2" was a marketing ploy and in reference to precieved performance imporvement and not physical performance of any aspect of the system.

I never stated that they would get 1000X the performance of off PS2 in all areas.

I said that it all add's up, for example if Broadband Engine really does end up being 1TFLOPS and 1TOPS, this is 400 times the Emotion engine right there just from Floating point and ops..

Polygon performance could be another 40X from ps2 to PS3, efficiency comes into play, and all those other things could all add up to 1000X.

[Omega Blue]

a fun little note. the first Ps3/X-Box 2 game engine is gonna do 12 million polygon /s i was reading an article and the engine is from Climax games and its gonna be used to make a racing game called Avalon. but again the engine is still an early build.

[gaming ultima]

yea i remmember the news about tht engine. i think tht 12mil poly's sec is with texture, lighting, well the fullworks

[Omega Blue]

wait...wow...i just thought whats Polyphony's nexyt project gonna look like? :shock: given GT4 is only PS and they love to squeeze power out of them. wow its gonna look great.

[gaming ultima]

i think if they do a GT5 for ps3 then it will look as near as its gonna get to real life graphics then it will for a long long time
but i do think tht it will be really close to real life though

[Domination]

i think if they do a GT5 for ps3 then it will look as near as its gonna get to real life graphics then it will for a long long time
but i do think tht it will be really close to real life though

I was going to agree with you on this,but I thought about something.... Although GT4 may look real for today's consoles,it still has a lot of work to be done.For instance,the background,people look more like statues,montains look more like flat surfaces when you get closer to them,grass resembles a golf course beneath a transparent floor,cars show no signs of damage or lack of functionality when having a head on collision with an object,no one's driving the cars,etc.etc..

Next gen systems have a good chance of correcting this and more to where pictures may look close to realistic.Imagine a damaged car losing anti-freeze,a door handle dangling on the side of a car door,a car riding on three wheels as a rim creats a crap load of sparks and groves in the pavement as the car loses momentum and stability.That would be something to drool over.

Dispite what a lot folks may say,I still don't believe the power and graphics will get as good a Final Fantasy:The Spirits Within.That would be overhyping your expectations.I believe they will only be as good a the FMV's that you would see in a game's story or slightly better.This has always been more accurate since the NES years than a person's assumption.But don't drop your mouth so soon,some FMV's look just as good as Final Fantasy: Ninja Gaiden (http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/ninjagaiden_TGS_092703_06.jpg),Halo 2 (http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/halo2_011604_009.jpg),Splinter Cell (http://xboxmedia.ign.com/xbox/image/splintercpand_052103_03.jpg)

[Omega Blue]

fully 3D crowds will deffinitly in next-gen consoles. and why did you link to X-Box games? if you haven't noticed this is a Playstation site :roll:

[Domination]

fully 3D crowds will deffinitly in next-gen consoles. and why did you link to X-Box games? if you haven't noticed this is a Playstation site :roll:

I kinda knew someone would ask this.I listed the Xbox titles for three reasons:one,I couldn't find any PS2 title that showed a clear,decent picture;two,the Xbox is still considered a weak system compared to the next gen but has a higher res count than the PS2 enabling a much sharper picture picture that is possibly closer to next gen platforms,and lastly,it was the only few games I could think of off the top of my head because of Xplay without going through about 400 other games. :D

As for the crowds,I don't deny the PS3 a power punch like this.I'm quite sure this is a must after what we've seen in the PS2 real time games:GTA is one of them,True Crime is another,Dead To Rights,Metal Gear was even able to pull this off,and so on.But,none of this equals to the Final Fantasy stand point.It is what you would see in a FMV of this generation.I'm talking about every person in the game looking like THIS (http://www.celebritywonder.com/mp/2001_Final_Fantasy:_The_Spirits_Within/donald_sutherland_final_fantasy_the_spirits_within _001.jpg) plus extreme detail -- like finger prints,saliva,broken finger nails,every last strand of hair moving,the works basically.Final Fantasy hardware is able to pull this off with about a hundred people.I don't see the next gen colsoles doing this,but I do see them being as or slightly beyond impressive as the images I posted.I don't know about you guys,but that is way more then enough to satisfy me.

Just one more thing,I don't know how you see other consoles,but I have no problem in a person giving an example of how a next gen console will perform if the console will better its hardware anyway.Xbox is a dated system.It can do nothing and I mean NOTHING to hurt the PS3.If I wanted to brag about Xbox kicking the PS3's butt,I would have found an Xbox site.Look at the PS2 now.It is still kick the Box's behind regardless of its power.You shouldn't be so insecure,man;it will only hurt you more in the end.

[Omega Blue]

fully 3D crowds will deffinitly in next-gen consoles. and why did you link to X-Box games? if you haven't noticed this is a Playstation site :roll:

I kinda knew someone would ask this.I listed the Xbox titles for three reasons:one,I couldn't find any PS2 title that showed a clear,decent picture;two,the Xbox is still considered a weak system compared to the next gen but has a higher res count than the PS2 enabling a much sharper picture picture that is possibly closer to next gen platforms,and lastly,it was the only few games I could think of off the top of my head because of Xplay without going through about 400 other games. :D


ah i see ok. i was just wonderin why your posting X-Box games. if i was insecure i'd a flamed you :P . but the rest i agree with you on.

[ps3man]

The ps3 gpu should be 200-400x times the power than the ps2 and cpu 400-600 times the power than the ps2. So it should hit the 1000 mark

[Omega Blue]

The ps3 gpu should be 200-400x times the power than the ps2 and cpu 400-600 times the power than the ps2. So it should hit the 1000 mark

last time i checked power estimation isn't culamative,

[ultimategamer2004]

I think they will reach 12x the power of the ps2 quite easily.

[nextgenfuture]

PS3 will beat all the compatition, by a 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000 light years nothing will be like it for power and class sony have winning formular that cant be beaten! :D :D :D :D :D :twisted:

[Nico]

Hope we'll have more than 12 X the power of the PS2

But i want to feel this power when i'll see games in motion, that's another story... I don't expect a "final fantasy the spirit within" look for PS3, but something better than most of the 2004 top PC games

[Ibanez32]

As for gt4. i'd just like to say that gt3 had drivers in the cars so why wouldn't 4 ?. Also the reason why there is no visual damage collision is because they are making life replicas of real cars. So in order to have damage they have to get consent from all the manufacturers and they didn't supprisingly want ppl smashing things that looked like there cars. Theres alot of cars there and unless they all agree to it it can't be included. Its gonna be more than 12 times the power.

[brownbeaner2]

about 12 times the power of the ps2 sounds right
hopefully they can do more

[KlawHammer]

a fun little note. the first Ps3/X-Box 2 game engine is gonna do 12 million polygon /s i was reading an article and the engine is from Climax games and its gonna be used to make a racing game called Avalon. but again the engine is still an early build.

12Mil! Is that all?

[Omega Blue]

thats 12 million as of a few months ago, now it could be more or less, depends

but 12 million is still alot, the most a game that will come out this year might barely push 3 or 400,000 poly's i think its either Painkiller or S.T.A.L.K.E.R Shadow of Chernobyl actually i think they said STALKER does 300,000 Polies and Painkiller does a little more.

[stanDarsh]

thats 12 million as of a few months ago, now it could be more or less, depends

but 12 million is still alot, the most a game that will come out this year might barely push 3 or 400,000 poly's i think its either Painkiller or S.T.A.L.K.E.R Shadow of Chernobyl actually i think they said STALKER does 300,000 Polies and Painkiller does a little more.

Do you mean 12 million a second or 12 million per frame?

[Omega Blue]

per frame